Past time for Revamp of Guild Build Costs, and Mission/Event Requirements

[Spook.5847]

Since you are giving away HoT, you should also rework the costs associated with leveling the guilds and upgrades to give the new and/or small guys a boost.

Also, lower or eliminate the "minimum number" to participate in guild events/missons. If I want to solo, or partner something to earn points for my guild, I should be able to do that.

And a few more regular PvE guild chores/missions/whatever wouldn't hurt either.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Here is some information on single-player Missions: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_mission#Individual_missions

[Vyrulisse.1246]

Yeah, Anet needs to refocus on Guilds as it is. They are important in this game and to have them be stagnant for SO long is truly sad.

[Spook.5847]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Here is some information on single-player Missions: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_mission#Individual_missions

None of those are solo missions except one, and that one cannot get guild credit - only personal - while the others require a certain number of players from "both guilds". Regardless, three types of things is kind of paltry, don't you think? How about a simple list of collections to dump into the guild resource bin, or any number of other simple tasks that actually move the guild forward? Such things should give credit to reflect effort put into advancing the guild's growth and goals. I can come up with a dozen such ideas in less than 5 minutes. Surely people who actually get paid big bucks to do so can as well, while the mechanics already exist in the game.

[Trise.2865]

Why? Nothing about Guild and Hall construction has changed with the update. New players must pay the same costs you did (or join your guild).

[Vyrulisse.1246]

@Trise.2865 said:Why? Nothing about Guild and Hall construction has changed with the update. New players must pay the same costs you did (or join your guild).

And? As content ages it's pretty standard to lower associated costs in-game and lessen grind. Should be no different with guilds especially for smaller guilds that don't have a million people donating materials constantly.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@Trise.2865 said:Why? Nothing about Guild and Hall construction has changed with the update. New players must pay the same costs you did (or join your guild).

And? As content ages it's pretty standard to lower associated costs in-game and lessen grind. Should be no different with guilds especially for smaller guilds that don't have a million people donating materials constantly.

Has guild sizes changed since HoT? I don't think anything has changed about guilds to warrant a change to guild missions/halls.

People slogged through a solo grind before if they wanted a solo guild.

[Spook.5847]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Why? Nothing about Guild and Hall construction has changed with the update. New players must pay the same costs you did (or join your guild).

And? As content ages it's pretty standard to lower associated costs in-game and lessen grind. Should be no different with guilds especially for smaller guilds that don't have a million people donating materials constantly.

Has guild sizes changed since HoT? I don't think anything has changed about guilds to warrant a change to guild missions/halls.

People slogged through a solo grind before if they wanted a solo guild.

No, they did not. Because there's no way to "solo" guild content, although there SHOULD be, which is one of my points. The other is that new missions, etc need to be added.Face it; it's much easier to attract people to join your guild if it actually exists, has a base, and you've hit the ground running with at least a few improvements.

And no; I do not think that new people trying out HoT and building guilds from scratch at this point in the game should have the same insane costs and "grind" that we did (which were mostly deliberately placed as stops to the ubergamers who burn through content at a rate 50x that of normal people anyway, so that "logic" no longer exists). I am also not emotionally invested in having other people "share my misery" as you imply, nor does it cheapen my past efforts/accomplishments if the people coming into the game have it easier, and with more tools/options available to them to get the same rewards for themselves.

Games are supposed to be FUN, and the soul-crushing grind of many parts of this game really eviscerate that basic premise - guild issues being one of them

Since this issue isn't being addressed or discussed by anyone - much less the devs - I wanted to bring it up for their consideration.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Those are the same laments (you can find them using the 'Search' feature) that were posted back when PoF released, as well as the same when Heart of Thorns released.You can also find posts from players who did, in fact, solo build their Guilds.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Spook.5847 said:

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Why? Nothing about Guild and Hall construction has changed with the update. New players must pay the same costs you did (or join your guild).

And? As content ages it's pretty standard to lower associated costs in-game and lessen grind. Should be no different with guilds especially for smaller guilds that don't have a million people donating materials constantly.

Has guild sizes changed since HoT? I don't think anything has changed about guilds to warrant a change to guild missions/halls.

People slogged through a solo grind before if they wanted a solo guild.

No, they did not. Because there's no way to "solo" guild content,

although there SHOULD be

, which is one of my points. The other is that new missions, etc need to be added.

"although there SHOULD be"

And thats where the entire argument derails with a fundamental misconception.

The issue at hand is that Guilds, Guild Halls, and Guild missions should ONLY benefit Guild Activities.... but they aren't. Whats broken here is that too much of the "Guild" system is built on "Personal Rewards". This is also why Guild leveling is a problem, and why people only want to join pre-leveled guilds, when they all want the rewards, but not want to contribute to any of the cost.

This is a hard problem to even discuss, since players are rarely motivated by anything other then personal rewards. Guild Prestige has been almost entirely overshadowed by things like Streamers/Celebrities, which is rapidly scooping up all possible recruits. That type of community also comes with the side effect of "the youtube life", where streamers/CCs themselves have to constantly move around based on whats popular, in order to stay relevant.

Before Guildhalls and guild missions, guilds were just glorified chat rooms. And contrary to popular belief, that meshed perfectly with the fact that Guilds had to organize their own activities in order to stay relevant. Guild missions gave Guilds something to do together.... but the rewards were needed to get them in there, and that eventually turned the whole thing into just another weekly routine to maximize possible rewards. Most guilds only still do them, because its less rewards if you don't.

The problem with Guildhalls is how all the guild features for WvW locked behind it as a paywall, and PvE players only really see it as extra nodes, exclusive buffs and extra bank space. If anything... I've seen more Individual players then Small guilds trying to upgrade a guild hall, because its the only way to get the extended Bank space now.

So I say again..... outside of RPing and Bank space, Guildhalls don't actually benefit guilds at all. Unless you count Scribing for the exclusive Sigils/Runes they can produce.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@Spook.5847 said:

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Why? Nothing about Guild and Hall construction has changed with the update. New players must pay the same costs you did (or join your guild).

And? As content ages it's pretty standard to lower associated costs in-game and lessen grind. Should be no different with guilds especially for smaller guilds that don't have a million people donating materials constantly.

Has guild sizes changed since HoT? I don't think anything has changed about guilds to warrant a change to guild missions/halls.

People slogged through a solo grind before if they wanted a solo guild.

No, they did not. Because there's no way to "solo" guild content, although there SHOULD be, which is one of my points. The other is that new missions, etc need to be added.Face it; it's much easier to attract people to join your guild if it actually exists, has a base, and you've hit the ground running with at least a few improvements.

And no; I do not think that new people trying out HoT and building guilds from scratch at this point in the game should have the same insane costs and "grind" that we did (which were mostly deliberately placed as stops to the ubergamers who burn through content at a rate 50x that of normal people anyway, so that "logic" no longer exists). I am also not emotionally invested in having other people "share my misery" as you imply, nor does it cheapen my past efforts/accomplishments if the people coming into the game have it easier, and with more tools/options available to them to get the same rewards for themselves.

Games are supposed to be FUN, and the soul-crushing grind of many parts of this game really eviscerate that basic premise - guild issues being one of them

Since this issue isn't being addressed or discussed by anyone - much less the devs - I wanted to bring it up for their consideration.

If you could "solo" guild content then it is no longer guild content.This is an MMO, it is expected for there to be certain things in the game that can not be done alone.

Most successful guilds are not created by a singular person. Most guilds have at least a few founding members. It's also way easier to attract people to your guild if you are not the only one in it.

Try applying this logic to other parts of the game. Should raids be made so people can play them solo for the same rewards?

[Spook.5847]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Those are the same laments (you can find them using the 'Search' feature) that were posted back when PoF released, as well as the same when Heart of Thorns released.You can also find posts from players who did, in fact, solo build their Guilds.

Since the minimum lev> @starlinvf.1358 said:

@Spook.5847 said:

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Why? Nothing about Guild and Hall construction has changed with the update. New players must pay the same costs you did (or join your guild).

And? As content ages it's pretty standard to lower associated costs in-game and lessen grind. Should be no different with guilds especially for smaller guilds that don't have a million people donating materials constantly.

Has guild sizes changed since HoT? I don't think anything has changed about guilds to warrant a change to guild missions/halls.

People slogged through a solo grind before if they wanted a solo guild.

No, they did not. Because there's no way to "solo" guild content,

although there SHOULD be

, which is one of my points. The other is that new missions, etc need to be added.

"although there SHOULD be"

And thats where the entire argument derails with a fundamental misconception.

The issue at hand is that Guilds, Guild Halls, and Guild missions should ONLY benefit Guild Activities.... but they aren't. Whats broken here is that too much of the "Guild" system is built on "

Personal Rewards

". This is also why Guild leveling is a problem, and why people only want to join pre-leveled guilds, when they all want the rewards, but not want to contribute to any of the cost.

This is a hard problem to even discuss, since players are rarely motivated by anything other then personal rewards. Guild Prestige has been almost entirely overshadowed by things like Streamers/Celebrities, which is rapidly scooping up all possible recruits. That type of community also comes with the side effect of "the youtube life", where streamers/CCs themselves have to constantly move around based on whats popular, in order to stay relevant.

Before Guildhalls and guild missions, guilds were just glorified chat rooms. And contrary to popular belief, that meshed perfectly with the fact that Guilds had to organize their own activities in order to stay relevant. Guild missions gave Guilds something to do together.... but the rewards were needed to get them in there, and that eventually turned the whole thing into just another weekly routine to maximize possible rewards. Most guilds only still do them, because its less rewards if you don't.

The problem with Guildhalls is how all the guild features for WvW locked behind it as a paywall, and PvE players only really see it as extra nodes, exclusive buffs and extra bank space. If anything... I've seen more Individual players then Small guilds trying to upgrade a guild hall, because its the only way to get the extended Bank space now.

So I say again..... outside of RPing and Bank space, Guildhalls don't actually benefit guilds at all. Unless you count Scribing for the exclusive Sigils/Runes they can produce.

I am not advocating for more personal rewards. In fact, I took issue with the first reply post after my original one equating a personally completed mission with a guild reward completion. I am saying there needs to be more ways for people (solo or in a duo) to do guild missions to benefit the guild, its construction, growth, etc (yes, via the guild halls). And of course scribing (which for some odd reason is ONLY available in the GH) should be considered, but that's a separate topic, mostly. I admit the thought that they might upgrade it to 500 as they are doing with jewelry and cooking is what prompted me to make this post, since they are connected in space.

As for Mewcifer; you are clearly missing the point, as your logical fallacy demonstrates. It is clearly possible to conduct personal actions to support a larger group you belong to, without having to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Think political parties, activists, etc. Here, I am saying people with time and inclination should be able to select from a menu of interesting and available activities they choose to perform that gives the guild resources, favor, or both. There should be no practical difference between having people on the game at different times of the day, or even different days, doing those things to support a group effort, rather than to force them to all be on at the same time in the same place to get those resources - except it's a lot harder to do that forced clustering of effort when people have something called "a life", which may involve multiple children, jobs, non-gaming spouses, etc.

I'm not saying get rid of the stuff that's here; I'm saying add to it. Significantly. And for some things (like escorting cows in WvW), make those also soloable, while for others, reduce the required number of people from 10 and 5 to 2 or 3. I am also saying that stupidly high costs to get stuff in the GH (like the 25k Aetherium for 10% WP cost reduction, 400 vials of flax oil for the Workshop upgrade, and hundreds of cured hard leather squares for even low-level upgrades) is a big fat turnoff to all those folks who just got HoT, and who have been having fun in the new-to-them content. For us jaded vets, its a chance to reinvigorate this part of the game,a nd to generate new revenue streams.

[Aaralyna.3104]

I'm kinda ok with how guild halls work atm and I am one of those kinda solo building my guild (and its hall). I do solo missions (in particular easy trek, but in worst case could do a race if other guilds do at same time). It takes a lot of time and materials and gold but its not impossible.

I have a feeling guilds may become more important when the wvw rework is done (something with you needed a wvw guild to do/register it if I remember well) and I'm scared changing guild halls would break things, add monetization or make it worse for us players so I rathered they not touch it. I would rather see materials getting easier to obtain (as in at more spots). In particular Cured Hardened Leather Squares, Mithril... Flax and Elder Wood are a pain but at least you can store alts at nodes and farm them daily.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@"Spook.5847" said:As for Mewcifer; you are clearly missing the point, as your logical fallacy demonstrates. It is clearly possible to conduct personal actions to support a larger group you belong to, without having to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Think political parties, activists, etc. Here, I am saying people with time and inclination should be able to select from a menu of interesting and available activities they choose to perform that gives the guild resources, favor, or both. There should be no practical difference between having people on the game at different times of the day, or even different days, doing those things to support a group effort, rather than to force them to all be on at the same time in the same place to get those resources - except it's a lot harder to do that forced clustering of effort when people have something called "a life", which may involve multiple children, jobs, non-gaming spouses, etc.

If you are going to try and use "that's a logical fallacy!" as a defense, you should at the very least attempt to name what fallacy is being used and which statement made you consider to be the fallacious one.

Guilds are designed for groups, that's why it is a guild hall and not a player estate. It is group content.A Guild is not a political party or an activist movement.

If you have people in a guild who are never online at the same time to do group activities, why stay in that guild? Why not just get together with people who can play together. Guilds are group content, not vaguely-aligned-people content.

Also, this may shock you, but plenty of people have lives and can still manage to organize a time for a few people to do group activities together.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

If you ask me, it's past time for Guild Systems to have a complete overhaul. They interface so lightly in the game it's kind of insulting to call it a fully developed system at all.

I swear, if people start yammering on about the "historical event known as the 'Guild Wars'," there will be many kittening kittens.