The scourge firebrand combo will be coming back

[Crab Fear.1624]

Condi looks poised to be strong, and despite nerfs across the board for everyone, FBI will still be really good.

Good condi, barrier, low damage from does, and a FBI sidekick will put this duo back in the game.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Yes, duration runes are out, but not sigils or raw condi damage amulets, sage is still good too.

[Ragnar.4257]

Scourge still has the fundamental problem of not having its shroud available for defense if it has any shades in play. What has changed there?

A support can round out the gaps in a nuker's sustain, but it can't 100% replace it. Herald benefits from FB support, but Herald already has a strong defensive rotation by itself. Right now Scourge doesn't have this, and the patch won't change that.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Ragnar.4257 said:Scourge still has the fundamental problem of not having its shroud available for defense if it has any shades in play. What has changed there?

A support can round out the gaps in a nuker's sustain, but it can't 100% replace it. Herald benefits from FB support, but Herald already has a strong defensive rotation by itself. Right now Scourge doesn't have this, and the patch won't change that.

They did not have shroud when it came out either.

So, how were they strong back then?

Power will be weaker, condi is only taking a duration cut, but there are ways to mitigate that.

Overall lower damage, lack of damage from hard cc, and the probability that condi will be a stronger choice for many classes primes this combo to come back.

Herald is taking enough hits to be less than ideal.

Maybe a condi version will rise up, or a hybrid. (For revs)

Thinking corruption might see more play.

[Ragnar.4257]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:Scourge still has the fundamental problem of not having its shroud available for defense if it has any shades in play. What has changed there?

A support can round out the gaps in a nuker's sustain, but it can't 100% replace it. Herald benefits from FB support, but Herald already has a strong defensive rotation by itself. Right now Scourge doesn't have this, and the patch won't change that.

They did not have shroud when it came put either.

Is that english?

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:Scourge still has the fundamental problem of not having its shroud available for defense if it has any shades in play. What has changed there?

A support can round out the gaps in a nuker's sustain, but it can't 100% replace it. Herald benefits from FB support, but Herald already has a strong defensive rotation by itself. Right now Scourge doesn't have this, and the patch won't change that.

They did not have shroud when it came put either.

Is that english?

It is auto correct "out"

[Ragnar.4257]

You don't seem to be aware of what scourge's skills do, or what was changed on them.

It used to be the case that Scourge's F1-4 were cast both at the location of the shade, and at the location of the scourge itself. This is when scourge was meta.

It was changed last year to only be on the location of the shade. This is when scourge stopped being meta, because now if a scourge is caught away from its shade, it has no access to barrier, no access to cleanse, no access to "get off me" Fear. And no, permanently standing inside shade is not an option for a class that has to kite and use LOS.

Is the upcoming patch going to undo that change? No. So nothing changes.

[PLS.4095]

Too> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

You don't seem to be aware of what scourge's skills do, or what was changed on them.

It used to be the case that Scourge's F1-4 were cast both at the location of the shade, and at the location of the scourge itself. This is when scourge was meta.

It was changed last year to only be on the location of the shade. This is when scourge stopped being meta, because now if a scourge is caught away from its shade, it has no access to barrier, no access to cleanse, no access to "get off me" Fear. And no, permanently standing inside shade is not an option for a class that has to kite and use LOS.

Is the upcoming patch going to undo that change? No. So nothing changes.

Agree.

Too much poeple know the futur in this forum, absolutly amazing.Same people can"t dodge or rupt an ez skill in game. Really strange ;) .

[Crab Fear.1624]

@PLS.4095 said:Too> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

You don't seem to be aware of what scourge's skills do, or what was changed on them.

It used to be the case that Scourge's F1-4 were cast both at the location of the shade, and at the location of the scourge itself. This is when scourge was meta.

It was changed last year to only be on the location of the shade. This is when scourge stopped being meta, because now if a scourge is caught away from its shade, it has no access to barrier, no access to cleanse, no access to "get off me" Fear. And no, permanently standing inside shade is not an option for a class that has to kite and use LOS.

Is the upcoming patch going to undo that change? No. So nothing changes.

Agree.

Too much poeple know the futur in this forum, absolutly amazing.Same people can"t dodge or rupt an ez skill in game. Weird.

Wierd.

It's not like you have to take sand savant.

That means more than one location...wierd.

Looks like you can place shades in multiple locations and trigger your f skills...wierd.

It's like mind blowing, like effectiveness returns...like wow.

[Ragnar.4257]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@PLS.4095 said:Too> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

You don't seem to be aware of what scourge's skills do, or what was changed on them.

It used to be the case that Scourge's F1-4 were cast both at the location of the shade, and at the location of the scourge itself. This is when scourge was meta.

It was changed last year to only be on the location of the shade. This is when scourge stopped being meta, because now if a scourge is caught away from its shade, it has no access to barrier, no access to cleanse, no access to "get off me" Fear. And no, permanently standing inside shade is not an option for a class that has to kite and use LOS.

Is the upcoming patch going to undo that change? No. So nothing changes.

Agree.

Too much poeple know the futur in this forum, absolutly amazing.Same people can"t dodge or rupt an ez skill in game. Weird.

Wierd.

It's not like you have to take sand savant.

That means more than one location...wierd.

Looks like you can place shades in multiple locations and trigger your f skills...wierd.

It's like mind blowing, like effectiveness returns...like wow.

So what is your explanation for why Scourge suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth last year, after defining the meta since PoF release?

Because, if standing only in locations of shades is totally viable like you say, then they should be fine? Right?

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@PLS.4095 said:Too> @Ragnar.4257 said:

You don't seem to be aware of what scourge's skills do, or what was changed on them.

It used to be the case that Scourge's F1-4 were cast both at the location of the shade, and at the location of the scourge itself. This is when scourge was meta.

It was changed last year to only be on the location of the shade. This is when scourge stopped being meta, because now if a scourge is caught away from its shade, it has no access to barrier, no access to cleanse, no access to "get off me" Fear. And no, permanently standing inside shade is not an option for a class that has to kite and use LOS.

Is the upcoming patch going to undo that change? No. So nothing changes.

Agree.

Too much poeple know the futur in this forum, absolutly amazing.Same people can"t dodge or rupt an ez skill in game. Weird.

Wierd.

It's not like you have to take sand savant.

That means more than one location...wierd.

Looks like you can place shades in multiple locations and trigger your f skills...wierd.

It's like mind blowing, like effectiveness returns...like wow.

So what is your explanation for why Scourge suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth last year, after defining the meta since PoF release?

Because, if standing only in locations of shades is totally viable like you say, then they should be fine? Right?

Yeah.

With the hits to everyone else, and herald taking some hefty hits....yep pretty much.

Likely all condi necros will become meta.

Condi hybrid necros too.

FB is already acknowledge mostly to still retain a meta spot.

Seems obvious that herald is gonna get bumped.

Condi in general will be a strong choice because of the changes.

I was always under the impression raw condi was better than duration, because of the cleanses....oh and those are getting hit too..

[Marxx.5021]

@"Ragnar.4257" said:You don't seem to be aware of what scourge's skills do, or what was changed on them.

It used to be the case that Scourge's F1-4 were cast both at the location of the shade, and at the location of the scourge itself. This is when scourge was meta.

It was changed last year to only be on the location of the shade. This is when scourge stopped being meta, because now if a scourge is caught away from its shade, it has no access to barrier, no access to cleanse, no access to "get off me" Fear. And no, permanently standing inside shade is not an option for a class that has to kite and use LOS.

Is the upcoming patch going to undo that change? No. So nothing changes.

Exactly. And this is not just about some number adjusting. My guess is scourge will never be meta again in PvP.

[Tayga.3192]

Doesn't this patch nerf necro corrupts?

Firebrand is a totally different issue.

[otto.5684]

@Tayga.3192 said:Doesn't this patch nerf necro corrupts?

Firebrand is a totally different issue.

It will probably be 1 support FB and 1-2 condi FBs. I theorize the idea setup would be 3 FBs and 2 DD.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Tayga.3192 said:Doesn't this patch nerf necro corrupts?

Firebrand is a totally different issue.

I saw feast of corruption lose 1 and spiteful spirit lose 1.

But, a blood sage, for example wouldn't be as impacted by that.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Doesn't this patch nerf necro corrupts?

Firebrand is a totally different issue.

It will probably be 1 support FB and 1-2 condi FBs. I theorize the idea setup would be 3 FBs and 2 DD.

So basically the fight will come down to the better FBS, because that's not a matchup good for DD.

FB camp close and far with 1 at mid and support, dd won't kill any of those.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Doesn't this patch nerf necro corrupts?

Firebrand is a totally different issue.

I saw feast of corruption lose 1 and spiteful spirit lose 1.

But, a blood sage, for example wouldn't be as impacted by that.

You're idealising to much scourge. What they did to it's mechanism cannot be compensated by number tweaks. Furthermore, the scourge's mechanism's damage (abysmal coefficient on manifest sand shade) and condi damage (reduced condi duration to 1 seconds from 3-4 seconds + increased CD) are heavily nerfed in the patch as well. Feast of corruption, dark pact, unholy feat see the number of boon corrupted reduced from 2 to 1. Corrupt boon (the skill) get a 33% increased CD and no only corrupt 2 boons down from 3. Spiteful spirit, the trait got it's boon corrupt reduced from 2 to 1.

A blood sage effectively lose quite a bit of power damage and half it's condi damage. There will hardly be any reason anymore for this build to take some of the traits taken in soul reaping so you can safely say that the blood sage that we know will totally disappear.

Objectivelys the new necromancers meta builds will most likely be more oriented toward minion builds and signet builds which mean less corruption from necromancers. (That said I'm already betting that the following patch will nerf necromancers minions because they are the one that benefit from a longer ttk and lower damages and ANet don't even touch them.)

[otto.5684]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Doesn't this patch nerf necro corrupts?

Firebrand is a totally different issue.

It will probably be 1 support FB and 1-2 condi FBs. I theorize the idea setup would be 3 FBs and 2 DD.

So basically the fight will come down to the better FBS, because that's not a matchup good for DD.

FB camp close and far with 1 at mid and support, dd won't kill any of those.

It is kinda think the same like right now. Based on the patch notes FB will probably dominate. DD will be much better than rev or Mesmer for decapping and plus one. We might see occasional Engi, ranger, warrior or ele as bruiser, but their ability to deal damage is heavily neutered. FB can easily hold 1v1 and DD can come for quick assist.

We could potentially see power reaper doing what the scourge used to do, AOE deterrent. But I think there are way too many counters to it compared aoe condi nuke + corrupt.

It is not looking good, balance wise.