Likely Roles for Third Wave of Elite Specs

[Eddy.7051]

This analysis focuses on elite specialization roles. There is also another analysis focused on elite spec themes linked below.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/100274/thematic-opportunities-for-the-third-wave-of-elite-specializations/p1?new=1

During the early development of GW2, ArenaNet stated that they designed GW2's combat around their own trinity (Damage, Support, and Control) rather than the traditional, MMO holy trinity (Damage, Heal, and Tank). The analysis below will use a modified trinity (Damage, Support, and Utility) inspired by Anet's trinity. All professions and elite specs are capable of providing damage, support, and utility, but elite specs are designed for certain roles. For example, the Chronomancer can have incredible DPS, but the Chronomancer is designed for slow/interruption utility and alacrity/quickness support. Listed below are two roles designed for each elite spec. There is no significance in the order for which role appears first within each pair of roles.

Elementalist

• Tempest Roles: Damage and Support
• Weaver Roles: Damage and Utility
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Support and Utility

Engineer

• Scrapper Roles: Support and Utility
• Holosmith Roles: Damage and Utility
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Damage and Support

Guardian

• Dragonhunter Roles: Damage and Utility
• Firebrand Roles: Damage and Support
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Support and Utility

Mesmer

• Chronomancer Roles: Support and Utility
• Mirage Roles: Damage and Utility
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Damage and Support

Necromancer

• Reaper Roles: Damage and Utility
• Scourge Roles: Support and Utility
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Damage and Support

Ranger

• Druid Roles: Support and Utility
• Soulbeast Roles: Damage and Utility
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Damage and Support

Revenant

• Herald Roles: Support and Utility
• Renegade Roles: Damage and Support
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Damage and Utility

Thief

• Daredevil Roles: Damage and Utility
• Deadeye Roles: Damage and Support
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Support and Utility

Warrior

• Berserker Roles: Damage and Utility
• Spellbreaker Roles: Support and Utility
• Potential Third Elite Spec Roles: Damage and Support

Edit: There is confusion around the definitions for these roles. Also, some abilities can fall into more than one category.

• Damage: Abilities that deplete enemy health or enhance the capability to deplete enemy health. Examples include Might, Vulnerability, removing Protection, critical hits, degeneration, and more.
• Support: Abilities that enhance allies with their capability and/or sustain. Examples include giving boons to allies, healing or reviving allies, drawing attention away from allies, and more.
• Utility: Abilities that either control enemies or abilities that do not fall within the damage and support categories. In PvP, control abilities either force the enemy to not behave the way they want (snares, push/pulls, interrupts, taunt, etc.) or they punish the enemy for doing specific behaviors (torment movement damage, confusion action damage, retaliation/reflects, standing in persistent AoE, etc.). We have all likely experienced attacking a shield-blocking Ascalonian ghost and consequently taking burning damage for hitting their shield. Skilled players will stop attacking the ghost until the ghost stops blocking. This is an example of the ghost controlling the player with a punishment ability. In PvE organized content, enemies often have break bars. So control abilities are not actually controlling the enemy, rather they are a utility tool to trigger the broken bar effect. There also may be a role for someone to fulfill a mechanic outside of killing the enemies, and abilities that assist with non-combat mechanics can fall into the Utility category. For example, if someone needs to run around the map and stand under telegraphs at various points of a fight, then mobility skills perform a Utility function for that player.

[Nephalem.8921]

I disagree with multiple of your categories-Warrior has 2 specs for damage + utility. The only support comes from tactics or banners.

Same for engineer. The initial design goal for scrapper was a bruiser but holo was the same. Current scrapper is still more bruiser than support. It can give superspeed and revive, thats more utility than support.

Chrono in its cuurent design is all 3 categories but lacks in heal. Mirage is just damage.

What does classify as utility? Control stuff like reflects and pulls? Renegade has more cc than herald. Revenant doesnt have a proper power build.Soulbeast is just damage aswell.Necromancer doesn't have a pure dps spec or boon support.Firebrand is just all 3 aswell. That thing is busted as heck.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

Tempest: We added an incentive to stay in a single element for a longer time.Weaver: We made circling elements slower.3rd e-spec: Can we please get something to incentivise switching elements frequently?

[Eddy.7051]

@Nephalem.8921 said:Warrior has 2 specs for damage + utility. The only support comes from tactics or banners.

Spellbreakers are essentially punishing tanks. At their core they provide utility: taunts, interrupts, reflects, and boon strips. Tanking is also a form of supporting back-liners.

Same for engineer. The initial design goal for scrapper was a bruiser but holo was the same. Current scrapper is still more bruiser than support. It can give superspeed and revive, thats more utility than support.

On what planet is being a reviver not providing support? Scrappers also redirect ally damage to themselves. I agree that providing superspeed is a form of utility, but it is also a form of support (similarly with providing group stealth) because you are extending those abilities to your allies. Kind of like how providing group might/fury/quickness can be both support and damage.

Chrono in its cuurent design is all 3 categories but lacks in heal. Mirage is just damage.

I specifically addressed the Chrono in the introduction. Also, Mirage applies considerable torment and confusion, both of which are punishing forms of control.

What does classify as utility? Control stuff like reflects and pulls?

Utility encompasses control, yes. Utility also includes mechanics that do not fit entirely into damage or support. For example, the Scrapper example above has stealth and mobility as forms of utility. Stealth and mobility can both be used offensively or defensively, but neither directly increases damage or health/armor. Thief and Mirage are exceptions where stealth attacks have increased damage, so stealth itself is not necessarily a utility for those specializations (except when stealth is shared to allies).

[zealex.9410]

Bard for mesmer with bow which basicly is a power dmg dealer/ support would be really nice imo.

For guard id love something power based thats more so brawly tanky, (less so pure dps like dh) with land spear.

Warrior have a power dps spec with fist weapons or a tank spec with fist weapons.

[Nephalem.8921]

@"Brad.9730" said:Spellbreakers are essentially punishing tanks. At their core they provide utility: taunts, interrupts, reflects, and boon strips. Tanking is also a form of supporting back-liners.Would call boonstrip and heavy cc more of utility powerhouse than support.

On what planet is being a reviver not providing support? Scrappers also redirect ally damage to themselves. I agree that providing superspeed is a form of utility, but it is also a form of support (similarly with providing group stealth) because you are extending those abilities to your allies. Kind of like how providing group might/fury/quickness can be both support and damage.

The revive is on a crazy high cd and fairly weak compared to something like necro. They tried to rework it into a support multiple times but its still more of a utility bruiser that is tankier than holo with less damage.

I specifically addressed the Chrono in the introduction. Also, Mirage applies considerable torment and confusion, both of which are punishing forms of control.Torment and confusion are dps orientated conditions. Calling them control would be like saying a burst thief is a control type character because it prevents targets from hurting allies.I still disagree with chrono because the whole reset thing opens a lot of burst possibilities and traits like danger time and chronophantasma make it very damage focussed.

I hope engineer gets a condition/support spec that focusses on elixirs.

You tried to put all professions into 2 categories but that just doesnt work in my opinion. Firebrand tomes just have so much utility build into them, and damage, and support because reasons.

[Eddy.7051]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"Brad.9730" said:Mirage applies considerable torment and confusion, both of which are punishing forms of control.Torment and confusion are dps orientated conditions. Calling them control would be like saying a burst thief is a control type character because it prevents targets from hurting allies.

Control comes in two forms - (A) forcing/limiting player abilities (i.e. push, pull, taunt, snare, etc.) or (B) punishing players for taking or not taking specific actions (standing in a persistent AoE or near an AoE that procs on a countdown (like Big Ol' Bomb), moving while affected by torment, using abilities while affected by confusion). In PvE, type B abilities are not as obvious to be control because enemy AI is often not intelligent enough to be manipulated by punishments. But, these roles are more significant in PvP where combat is more strategic and more in-depth than the roles you see in a raid group.

Confusion and torment damage is easily mitigated by avoiding to proc their punishment damage. An intelligent player who is affected and unable to remove torment will stand still if it is less dangerous than torment's movement damage. Pure damage-oriented conditions are burn and bleed. Having burn or bleed does not manipulate your behavior in combat. Poison is more of a gray area between pure damage and damage-control hybrid. On one hand, reducing healing is just another form of damage (so it could be viewed as having a pure damage role), but on the other hand poison manipulates players if players hold off on using their Healing Skill until their poison is removed (so it could be viewed as having a damage-control hybrid role). Similarly, Retaliation is not a pure damage boon and it is also about control/punishment.

[Revolution.5409]

Ranger: Damage (AOE), utility (CC)