Judge's Intervention buff was nice. Now give DH perma 25% movement speed

[Leonidrex.5649]

@mes.4607 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@mes.4607 said:

@"wasss.1208" said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Lynx_(PvP

) Anyone can have perma 25% movespeed, if they are willing to sacrefice some part of their build.

I wish they'd change the condition damage to ferocity

and I wish they would change power into expertise :)its supposed to be OK for any build that needs speed and not for power or condi only.

Well, that's why traveler's rune exists

traveler rune is worse for condi builds then lynx, its been overnerfed

[mrauls.6519]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:raulsy how/ why did you change your handle?

By submitting a display name ticket to anet. I feel like this name is better since it matches my main character

[Rekt.5360]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Rekt.5360 said:Hmmm, I honestly disagree. DH already has enough mobility and teleports for the kind of damage output it can do. A while ago DH didn't even have movement speed on traits and everybody either ran traveler runes or was just slow as balls and that was fine. DH already has access to good ranged weapons and doesn't need a free perma 25% movement speed buff imo.

By good ranged weapons, I really hope you don't mean LB because that weapon is pretty bad. 2 root skills, Hunter's Ward easily dodged and made useless, Deflecting Shot now easy to dodge because of the cast time, and the Symbol is slow as can be. True Shot can hurt...that's about it.

I meant both LB and Scepter. DH has much better ranged weapons than warrior or Rev/Herald two other melee bruisers.

[Bazsi.2734]

NO.

haveyouevercondiseredtojustnot

[avey.4201]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Rekt.5360 said:Hmmm, I honestly disagree. DH already has enough mobility and teleports for the kind of damage output it can do. A while ago DH didn't even have movement speed on traits and everybody either ran traveler runes or was just slow as balls and that was fine. DH already has access to good ranged weapons and doesn't need a free perma 25% movement speed buff imo.

By good ranged weapons, I really hope you don't mean LB because that weapon is pretty bad. 2 root skills, Hunter's Ward easily dodged and made useless, Deflecting Shot now easy to dodge because of the cast time, and the Symbol is slow as can be. True Shot can hurt...that's about it.

except when true shot hits for 100 damage due to toughness on 30k hp classDH longbow was previously comparable mechanically with ranger longbow, except 3/4 skills swap, now DH is slow wet noodle by comparison

[avey.4201]

@otto.5684 said:

@lovemghool.7613 said:no you need to make the choice between lynx, trrapper, dragonhunter, etc runes

Maybe they should do that for all classes, cuz apparently guardian is the only class to have to make a choice everyone gets by default.

And someone still plays DH in sPvP? For that lone skilled soul please stop. It does not working and you are skewing the performance curve since you are one of like 5 people who still play it...

Who cares about the 5 secs for JI. This skill is only useful if you have melee weapons that can deal damage. It is not a DH trapper skill. It is used by power core which is not sPvP viable. Not even remotely.

This whole balance patch is pathetic from sPvP standpoint. Condi rev will remain where it is. Aoe and CC spam will remain the name of the game. I dunno why people still bother with sPvP or its balance. It does not matter anymore.

I still play memehunter, heal skill has 2x more damage than any utility skill, always had to carry trap heal around for blind, now it's a source of damage too.least firebrand can't heal someone to death the way a DH can ;)

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Rekt.5360 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Rekt.5360 said:Hmmm, I honestly disagree. DH already has enough mobility and teleports for the kind of damage output it can do. A while ago DH didn't even have movement speed on traits and everybody either ran traveler runes or was just slow as balls and that was fine. DH already has access to good ranged weapons and doesn't need a free perma 25% movement speed buff imo.

By good ranged weapons, I really hope you don't mean LB because that weapon is pretty bad. 2 root skills, Hunter's Ward easily dodged and made useless, Deflecting Shot now easy to dodge because of the cast time, and the Symbol is slow as can be. True Shot can hurt...that's about it.

I meant both LB and Scepter. DH has much better ranged weapons than warrior or Rev/Herald two other melee bruisers.

What? Scepter it used because it's quite literally the only other option. If someone dodges the immob then the symbol is just easily walked out of and you're now at a massive disadvantage because you can't keep people at range and you just get beat on. Compare any Guardian range weapon to Rangers and tell me they're useful again?

Warrior rifle at least has viable tools to keep you away and do damage that isn't super obvious to dodge or centered around a gimmick like ToF CC pushing that gets negated by stab and slow casting. Rev hammer is bad the moment you get out of a zerg, but at least it has some use there. LB for Guardian is slow, mostly weak and has WAY too long CDs. Rev also doesn't need a range weapon nearly as much because Shiro not only exists but is great, they can get to you without a ranged weapon.

[aelska.4609]

The problem I see with DH is that it overlaps too much core guard, with more cheese options introduced by HoT. So that, in its current form, I don't see a way to buff them without erasing core guard. For the subjective part, I prefer to fight against core guard than DH: gameplay is more dynamic and does not rely on stupid CC through Test Of Faith or big symbols bunkering.

For the similarities: let's recall DH has access to all core guard weapons, utilities and traits. The only thing that change are virtues which ... are the same but stronger:

• F1 passive adds cripple on top of burn. F1 active adds cripple instead of burn, pulsating, with additional pull
• F2 passive is exactly the same. F2 active doubles the healing and gives mobility to the guard.
• F3 passive is exactly the same. F3 active blocks for a duration instead of giving a single aegis.

So why is DH not a popular option over core ?

• F1 feels clunky. 3/4s cast time is a lot. 1/2s cast time on pull sucks too.
• F2 feels clunky: walking speed slows down, increases, slows down, and back to normal. Effects appear at the end of the animation and not at the start.
• F3 feels clunky: 1/4s of cast time on a defensive skill is weird.
• Abandoning a traitline for DH is not worth it. Guards utilities/F3 virtue/symbols/defenses are trash if not traited. Traps and trap traits do not offer a good alternative.
• Radiance traitline hardly combines with DH traitline: Longer F1 cooldown and cast time do not apply enough retaliation for radiance to be interesting as damage boost. Keeping F1 passive is a waste of its potential for condi builds.
• Mobility is a bit better than core, but ridiculously low.

So ... should it be buffed ?I'd say no. Keep it for PvE. I don't want to see any trap happening in PvP as it's the most cheese and boring gameplay one can think off. Longbow could be fun but needs serious redesign for that.25% speed won't change anything to the viability of DH and it is legitimate to ask, but I think people here share my mind: we do not want to risk DH reappearing in PvP.

[Rekt.5360]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Rekt.5360 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Rekt.5360 said:Hmmm, I honestly disagree. DH already has enough mobility and teleports for the kind of damage output it can do. A while ago DH didn't even have movement speed on traits and everybody either ran traveler runes or was just slow as balls and that was fine. DH already has access to good ranged weapons and doesn't need a free perma 25% movement speed buff imo.

By good ranged weapons, I really hope you don't mean LB because that weapon is pretty bad. 2 root skills, Hunter's Ward easily dodged and made useless, Deflecting Shot now easy to dodge because of the cast time, and the Symbol is slow as can be. True Shot can hurt...that's about it.

I meant both LB and Scepter. DH has much better ranged weapons than warrior or Rev/Herald two other melee bruisers.

What? Scepter it used because it's quite literally the only other option. If someone dodges the immob then the symbol is just easily walked out of and you're now at a massive disadvantage because you can't keep people at range and you just get beat on. Compare any Guardian range weapon to Rangers and tell me they're useful again?

Warrior rifle at least has viable tools to keep you away and do damage that isn't super obvious to dodge or centered around a gimmick like ToF CC pushing that gets negated by stab and slow casting. Rev hammer is bad the moment you get out of a zerg, but at least it has some use there. LB for Guardian is slow, mostly weak and has WAY too long CDs. Rev also doesn't need a range weapon nearly as much because Shiro not only exists but is great, they can get to you without a ranged weapon.

Warrior rifle has some of the most telegraphed damage output of any ranged weapon. Killshot/gunflame are basically true shot levels of telegraph and require adrenaline to use. Rifle 3 is probably the only good dmg ability in SPvP, as the other skills do no damage, rifle 4 basically yeets you off the point, so you can't really use it to kite on point. Rifle 5 is pretty decent though. Symbol of Punishment and Symbol of energy are still good cleave on points and LB5 can be really big if your team bombs the point and the enemy has no immediate stab/ports available.

As for the ranger comparison we both know there isn't one to be made sadly. Ranged weapons on rangers eclipse those of most other classes' pretty hard in PvP and guardian is far from being the only class to look bad in comparison.

[Babylon.8972]

@mes.4607 said:

@melody.2601 said:Yeah sure, what else do you want? Maybe free Permanent 25 Might to top it?

No, that's reserved for holo. /s

I don't think I'm asking for much here. There's already a trait that gives 25% movement speed as long as F2 isn't on CD. It just needs to be changed so you have 25% movement speed as long as you have the trait (just like Chronomancer)

Maybe give perma 25% movement speed rather to scourge than DH?

[mrauls.6519]

@Babylon.8972 said:

@mes.4607 said:

@melody.2601 said:Yeah sure, what else do you want? Maybe free Permanent 25 Might to top it?

No, that's reserved for holo. /s

I don't think I'm asking for much here. There's already a trait that gives 25% movement speed as long as F2 isn't on CD. It just needs to be changed so you have 25% movement speed as long as you have the trait (just like Chronomancer)

Maybe give perma 25% movement speed rather to scourge than DH?

Does scourge need it? I feel like they just camp a node

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Babylon.8972 said:

@mes.4607 said:

@melody.2601 said:Yeah sure, what else do you want? Maybe free Permanent 25 Might to top it?

No, that's reserved for holo. /s

I don't think I'm asking for much here. There's already a trait that gives 25% movement speed as long as F2 isn't on CD. It just needs to be changed so you have 25% movement speed as long as you have the trait (just like Chronomancer)

Maybe give perma 25% movement speed rather to scourge than DH?

they have a signet that gives 25% already, and it has good active too. they are free to use it

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Rekt.5360 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Rekt.5360 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Rekt.5360 said:Hmmm, I honestly disagree. DH already has enough mobility and teleports for the kind of damage output it can do. A while ago DH didn't even have movement speed on traits and everybody either ran traveler runes or was just slow as balls and that was fine. DH already has access to good ranged weapons and doesn't need a free perma 25% movement speed buff imo.

By good ranged weapons, I really hope you don't mean LB because that weapon is pretty bad. 2 root skills, Hunter's Ward easily dodged and made useless, Deflecting Shot now easy to dodge because of the cast time, and the Symbol is slow as can be. True Shot can hurt...that's about it.

I meant both LB and Scepter. DH has much better ranged weapons than warrior or Rev/Herald two other melee bruisers.

What? Scepter it used because it's quite literally the only other option. If someone dodges the immob then the symbol is just easily walked out of and you're now at a massive disadvantage because you can't keep people at range and you just get beat on. Compare any Guardian range weapon to Rangers and tell me they're useful again?

Warrior rifle at least has viable tools to keep you away and do damage that isn't super obvious to dodge or centered around a gimmick like ToF CC pushing that gets negated by stab and slow casting. Rev hammer is bad the moment you get out of a zerg, but at least it has some use there. LB for Guardian is slow, mostly weak and has WAY too long CDs. Rev also doesn't need a range weapon nearly as much because Shiro not only exists but is great, they can get to you without a ranged weapon.

Warrior rifle has some of the most telegraphed damage output of any ranged weapon. Killshot/gunflame are basically true shot levels of telegraph and require adrenaline to use. Rifle 3 is probably the only good dmg ability in SPvP, as the other skills do no damage, rifle 4 basically yeets you off the point, so you can't really use it to kite on point. Rifle 5 is pretty decent though. Symbol of Punishment and Symbol of energy are still good cleave on points and LB5 can be really big if your team bombs the point and the enemy has no immediate stab/ports available.

As for the ranger comparison we both know there isn't one to be made sadly. Ranged weapons on rangers eclipse those of most other classes' pretty hard in PvP and guardian is far from being the only class to look bad in comparison.

I'll agree that Kill Shot is bad with that abysmal cast time but Gun Flame is far superior to True Shot since it has the same cast time and has a bunch more loaded in on a lower CD, just needs adrenaline which isn't hard to build with Rifle. 4 skill has mobility tied to it, that's a positive in any situation besides sitting on a point and is WAY better than being rooted any day, and by that point you can can still use 5 to yeet someone else.

The LB symbol is decent when it works but it gets stopped by almost any incline despite being shot in an arc and being REALLY slow, and Hunter's Ward is just bad. Only times you get caught by it is if you ran out of dodges, and anything is good in that situation, or you were stopped by something else and most people will know either to be ready to dodge on final ward hit or be ready for the ally setup, either way it almost never works and has WAY too long of a CD. This is also assuming you don't just get interrupted because the cast time is almost 3 seconds and roots you on top of it. At least Rev hammer 5 let's you move, and that skill is bad too.

DH needs a lot of help, 25% movement speed buff built in is the least they can do.

[otto.5684]

@aelska.4609 said:The problem I see with DH is that it overlaps too much core guard, with more cheese options introduced by HoT. So that, in its current form, I don't see a way to buff them without erasing core guard. For the subjective part, I prefer to fight against core guard than DH: gameplay is more dynamic and does not rely on stupid CC through Test Of Faith or big symbols bunkering.

For the similarities: let's recall DH has access to all core guard weapons, utilities and traits. The only thing that change are virtues which ... are the same but stronger:

• F1 passive adds cripple on top of burn. F1 active adds cripple instead of burn, pulsating, with additional pull
• F2 passive is exactly the same. F2 active doubles the healing and gives mobility to the guard.
• F3 passive is exactly the same. F3 active blocks for a duration instead of giving a single aegis.

So why is DH not a popular option over core ?

• F1 feels clunky. 3/4s cast time is a lot. 1/2s cast time on pull sucks too.
• F2 feels clunky: walking speed slows down, increases, slows down, and back to normal. Effects appear at the end of the animation and not at the start.
• F3 feels clunky: 1/4s of cast time on a defensive skill is weird.
• Abandoning a traitline for DH is not worth it. Guards utilities/F3 virtue/symbols/defenses are trash if not traited. Traps and trap traits do not offer a good alternative.
• Radiance traitline hardly combines with DH traitline: Longer F1 cooldown and cast time do not apply enough retaliation for radiance to be interesting as damage boost. Keeping F1 passive is a waste of its potential for condi builds.
• Mobility is a bit better than core, but ridiculously low.

So ... should it be buffed ?I'd say no. Keep it for PvE. I don't want to see any trap happening in PvP as it's the most cheese and boring gameplay one can think off. Longbow could be fun but needs serious redesign for that.25% speed won't change anything to the viability of DH and it is legitimate to ask, but I think people here share my mind: we do not want to risk DH reappearing in PvP.

DH was my the edge of becoming meta pre Feb patch. Back then, something like 25% movement speed would have made them top tier. And the only traps DH ran with ToF and the heal. It was not medi trapper but medi and a trap. But now... LB is complete fucking garbage. Again, cuz whoever making the balance changes clearly does not understand anything about the game and builds the not only made the only LB skill that made the weapon useable for obsolete. They nerfed the weapon damage to the ground. It lost about 45% of its is overall damage compared to 30% for most weapons. ToF lost nearly half its damage by removing the initial damage of the skill. It is not even a C tier build now.

The only crossectionality between core and DH was virtues. But core was completely out along time ago. It is arguably worse now due to lack of damage.

Back to DH, if DS is to remain as it is now, just remove it and give me a dps skill. That could make LB and DH more viable. At least it could put range pressure.