Necro staff rework / rebalance ideas

[Pooh.6897]

Hey all,

Warning: This might be a long post, but it's meant to start an in-depth discussion on how to improve the staff. I do not have all the answers, but perhaps we all together can come up with changes that ultimately would make this weapon good for everyone to use. Thanks for reading.

I've tried staff a few times now, and my opinions about it are a bit of a mixed bag. In WvW it's a good weapon. Not great, but not terrible either. You can do some really unique stuff with it like attacking people on the walls and control chokepoints rather effectively. It's nice that it can attack multiple people at once and the range certainly helps. However, in PvE the staff has been lacking behind a bit, often outmatched by other weapons, like axe, that offers a better deal for a second weapon set. Taking all this into consideration I have to say that it feels like the staff is either in an identity crisis, or it is weaker than it needs to be.

It has a life-force building auto-attack, a regen/bleed on a low cooldown, a poison/chill attack, a condi transfer and a fear/cc attack. This is a rather unique collection and it is because of this obvious that staff was never meant to be a primary weapon in the same way the greatsword or axe can be. It is meant to offer a suite of utility skills, the perfect weapon to put in your second weapon slot. This is a great idea for a weapon, and Arenanet did a good initial job of designing the weapon. When managed right, it really could add something to your gameplay and to the class, requiring quite some skill to effectively manage everything you have available to you. However, as time moves on many things have changed. The changes I want to propose are first and foremost meant to 1) offer ALL necromancers more choice. So not just reapers, but also scourges and core necros. 2) Reinforce the idea of staff as a utility weapon even more. Staff could be the weapon you charge up your lifeforce with, for example. While staff is already moderately capable of this with the soul marks trait, it still lacks behind a bit. You need to take additional skills in order to generate enough life force for a decent amount of time in shroud.

So, here are my proposed changes. Again, they are meant to reinforce the staff as a utility weapon.

Skill 1: This skill now has an auto-attack chain that looks like mainhand dagger, with a mark on the third and final hit. It would function similarly to guardian hammer, but then ranged. As for what mark it would apply, I don't know yet. Perhaps something that gives might to allies. Could also be a mark that helps with life force generation. Mark of Blood in the auto-attack chain would be interesting though.

Skill 2 (Mark of Blood): This skill gets a cooldown increase to be more in line with the other marks. Because of this, the skill gets buffed. This mark now grants might to allies and vulnerability to foes. The mark can be triggered by either an ally or a foe. for dps-upkeep there could be a small (!) damage strike added.

Skill 3 (Chillblains): This skill is, in my opinion, one of the stronger skills on staff already. I don't see much ways to improve/change this skill so I'll leave this one open for future suggestions.

Skill 4 (Putrid Mark): This mark now additionally corrupts boons on foes. When no boons are corrupted, apply x instead (Work in progress). Slight damage nerf to be more in line with the other marks.

Skill 5 (Reaper's Mark): This skill is also one of the stronger and more generally useful skills on staff. it's good in PvE for the breakbar damage and it's good in WvW for the extra fear it brings. No big changes needed in my opinion.

The general idea is to provide a player with a suite of useful skills to have, and to reinforce the idea of the staff as a utility weapon. Chill for reapers, boon corrupt for scourge and bleed for core condi necro. The one thing these three have in common is life force management, which could a skill-related thing to keep healthy. Soul marks could be taken for better life force production. With these changes, staff becomes a weapon that's good to have in many situations, but not outright mandatory or broken. Everything should be tuned so that it's great as part of a set but not good on its own. Skill 2 shouldn't be able to outperform axe in vulnerability production, but it should produce enough vulnerability and might to be noticeable in teamfights.

Please let me know what you think. These changes are by no means meant as a final suggestion, rather as an initial kickstart for a good discussion.

[Taril.8619]

I like how you state that Staff could be a weapon used to charge LF, but then suggest a nerf on Mark of Blood CD (Meaning less Soul Marks procs)

Anyway, as for the ideas:

1) You've not really gone much into detail with it. Though, an attack chain is a neat idea. I've once suggested that Staff's auto should be a 3 hit combo with: Damage in a line (1 spectral hand) > Damage and Cripple in a line (2 spectral hands) > AoE around a target with boonrip with bonus LF per boon ripped (A spectral scythe) could even be a Whirl finisher too.

2) Mark of Blood is honestly pretty okay as it is. Regen is good enough for support. The only change I'd think would be necessary is to have the Regen be applied around the mark AND the Necro.

3) Is pretty fine as is. I'd only suggest it providing Vigor to allies too (Similar to my suggestion for Mark of Blood, both around the mark and the Necro)

4) I'm not so sure about adding boon corrupt on this, it's already got offensive potential by transferring your own condi's. I'd rather see it get some support via transfer or just cleansing of conditions from allies. (It's interesting how much focus Necro has on eating Condi's and how little they can directly remove allies Condi's with their tools primarily being to transfer them to self and then eat them...)

5) While it's pretty decent as is. I think it's possible to add in some spice to the skill to really make Staff desirable, by adding in a stack of Stability to allies on the skill (Again, like other suggestions, both at the mark and the Necro)

I say these things, since I see Staff being a supportive weapon. Something that provides tools to aid allies as well as putting out conditions (Meaning it has use in PvE and not just PvP/WvW where things like Chill, Poison and Fear are actually great and not just a bit of BB damage).

[Anchoku.8142]

Staff is still useful in WvW. If it is buffed, I expect a hard nerf in WvW; something like Soul Marks being deleted in favor of a new trait that is completely worthless because every trait that benefits from stacking in WvW must be destroyed in all game modes.

[Pooh.6897]

@Taril.8619 said:I like how you state that Staff could be a weapon used to charge LF, but then suggest a nerf on Mark of Blood CD (Meaning less Soul Marks procs)

Anyway, as for the ideas:

1) You've not really gone much into detail with it. Though, an attack chain is a neat idea. I've once suggested that Staff's auto should be a 3 hit combo with: Damage in a line (1 spectral hand) > Damage and Cripple in a line (2 spectral hands) > AoE around a target with boonrip with bonus LF per boon ripped (A spectral scythe) could even be a Whirl finisher too.

2) Mark of Blood is honestly pretty okay as it is. Regen is good enough for support. The only change I'd think would be necessary is to have the Regen be applied around the mark AND the Necro.

3) Is pretty fine as is. I'd only suggest it providing Vigor to allies too (Similar to my suggestion for Mark of Blood, both around the mark and the Necro)

4) I'm not so sure about adding boon corrupt on this, it's already got offensive potential by transferring your own condi's. I'd rather see it get some support via transfer or just cleansing of conditions from allies. (It's interesting how much focus Necro has on eating Condi's and how little they can directly remove allies Condi's with their tools primarily being to transfer them to self and then eat them...)

5) While it's pretty decent as is. I think it's possible to add in some spice to the skill to really make Staff desirable, by adding in a stack of Stability to allies on the skill (Again, like other suggestions, both at the mark and the Necro)

I say these things, since I see Staff being a supportive weapon. Something that provides tools to aid allies as well as putting out conditions (Meaning it has use in PvE and not just PvP/WvW where things like Chill, Poison and Fear are actually great and not just a bit of BB damage).

Thanks for commenting :) later today I’ll provide a lengthier response, but for now I wanted to say that I really like the ideas for the auto attack chain. My idea was to move the current mark of blood to the last hit of the auto attack chain and replace skill 2 with a new mark. This could mean more consistent procs with soul marks. I’ll change the naming later today to clarify. As for the cd nerf: it’s meant to bring skill 2 more in line with the other marks. You are right though, it is weird that a class that can do so much with condis has so limited access to condis on allies. I can only think of plague signet that can do it.

Edit: I just had a thought. It is rather odd that many other classes have at least one weapon dedicated to support, whereas necro has very few weapon support skills. Mark of blood is good for regen, but outside of that there aren’t many weapon skills for necro that focus on support. What are your thoughts about condi transfer/ condi cleanse from allies being baked in the auto attack chain? I don’t necessarily think necro needs even more access to condis, but a weapon themed around support and LF would be certainly unique for necro. It would be great to see the LF production be around the level of main hand dagger with soul marks.

[Pooh.6897]

@Anchoku.8142 said:Staff is still useful in WvW. If it is buffed, I expect a hard nerf in WvW; something like Soul Marks being deleted in favor of a new trait that is completely worthless because every trait that benefits from stacking in WvW must be destroyed in all game modes.

Wouldn’t it be great though if staff was also useful outside of wvw? :)

[Dadnir.5038]

@jiggle puff.9347 said:Wouldn’t it be great though if staff was also useful outside of wvw? :)

It already is useful outside of WvW. It's one of the most effective weapon of the necromancer when farming in open world PvE. It's also an useful weapon to deal with thiefs' stealth in general which mean that it's useful in sPvP and WvW (roaming and zerg).

The only area where it's not really useful is PvE instanced content where an unoptimized weapon like this don't have room to shine. And while the change to mark of blood you suggest could make it slightly more useful there, the CD nerf defeat this purpose. As for more boon corruption onto Putrid mark, it's plain useless in PvE instanced content.

If you want to make the staff less useless where it is useless, you just have to put 4 seconds (1 second in PvP/WvW) of bleed onto the AA. It will lessen the loss of dps for condi build that would want to put staff into their rotation in PvE.

[Pooh.6897]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@jiggle puff.9347 said:Wouldn’t it be great though if staff was also useful outside of wvw? :)

It already is useful outside of WvW. It's one of the most effective weapon of the necromancer when farming in open world PvE. It's also an useful weapon to deal with thiefs' stealth in general which mean that it's useful in sPvP and WvW (roaming and zerg).

The only area where it's not really useful is PvE instanced content where an unoptimized weapon like this don't have room to shine. And while the change to

mark of blood

you suggest could make it slightly more useful there, the CD nerf defeat this purpose. As for more boon corruption onto

Putrid mark

, it's plain useless in PvE instanced content.

If you want to make the staff less useless where it is useless, you just have to put 4 seconds (1 second in PvP/WvW) of bleed onto the AA. It will lessen the loss of dps for condi build that would want to put staff into their rotation in PvE.

What if the mark on the AA grants might and bleed and the current mark of blood gets reworked into, say, a mark that gives quite a bit of vulnerability and weakness? After some thought I do agree that the boon corrupt in skill 4 especially in pve would be rather useless, it was more meant as a new flavor to the staff. That said, skill 4 in general has limited use in instanced pve content because of the many condi cleanses available in the game. Perhaps a mark that grants additional swiftness/slow would be good?

[Dadnir.5038]

@jiggle puff.9347 said:What if the mark on the AA grants might and bleed and the current mark of blood gets reworked into, say, a mark that gives quite a bit of vulnerability and weakness? After some thought I do agree that the boon corrupt in skill 4 especially in pve would be rather useless, it was more meant as a new flavor to the staff. That said, skill 4 in general has limited use in instanced pve content because of the many condi cleanses available in the game. Perhaps a mark that grants additional swiftness/slow would be good?

No, really, staff just need to apply bleed on hit with it's AA. A mark that give vuln/weakness wouldn't do much good in PvE instanced content (vuln is already caped most of the time while weakness don't do much there). Better make thing simple.

[Pooh.6897]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@jiggle puff.9347 said:What if the mark on the AA grants might and bleed and the current mark of blood gets reworked into, say, a mark that gives quite a bit of vulnerability and weakness? After some thought I do agree that the boon corrupt in skill 4 especially in pve would be rather useless, it was more meant as a new flavor to the staff. That said, skill 4 in general has limited use in instanced pve content because of the many condi cleanses available in the game. Perhaps a mark that grants additional swiftness/slow would be good?

No, really, staff just need to apply bleed on hit with it's AA. A mark that give vuln/weakness wouldn't do much good in PvE instanced content (vuln is already caped most of the time while weakness don't do much there). Better make thing simple.

What kind of mark would be effective in pve? Staff already has chill, poison, bleed and fear. What about swiftness to allies and cripple to foes? It seems like there are very few conditions that would actually be useful for instanced pve content. Maybe a mark that applies fury could be okay?

Edit: with bleed on AA, are you hinting at a dps buff or would it go along with a direct damage nerf? Also, what are your thoughts on staff skill 4 in general?

[Lahmia.2193]

Not every weapon needs to be very effective in every game mode. Staff is fine as it is.

[Dadnir.5038]

@jiggle puff.9347 said:Edit: with bleed on AA, are you hinting at a dps buff or would it go along with a direct damage nerf? Also, what are your thoughts on staff skill 4 in general?

Objectively, whether they reduce power damage or not won't change much to the effectiveness of the AA (it just show how bad it already is). I think staff skill#4 is fine.

For me, ideally the staff could provide relief to the scepter in a condi build rotation while right now, it's lack of condition on the AA make it to much of a dps loss. Truth be told, you'd have condi builds more dynamic if scepter wasn't the overwhelming condi alternative of the necromancer. ANet's devs would just have to free lingering curse from the requirement to have a scepter in hand for the increase in condition damage and add these few seconds of bleed on staff AA to create a place to the staff in PvE instanced content. None of the marks in this set up would be bad or lacking in any way.

[Pooh.6897]

@Lahmia.2193 said:Not every weapon needs to be very effective in every game mode. Staff is fine as it is.

I disagree. Staff is not fine in the slightest. Maybe if you're running with a zerg in WvW, but outside of that it's really not in a good spot. If you were to say that not every weapon has to be very effective for every build, meaning that a weapon can appeal to either power or condi, I'd agree. But having an entire weapon dedicated to a single game mode seems rather odd to say the least, and on top of that is VERY confusing for new players. I honestly do not believe that Anet designs weapons specifically with WvW in mind, and I think that's a terrible way of designing a weapon in the first place. I'm not saying that staff should be meta in PvE and everyone and their dog should use it. My point is that the staff has been in a tough spot for a long time now, and honestly it isn't the only one. We can hope for new expansions and e-specs to bring more weapons to the classes we like, but it's rather pointless if we already have a large arsenal of potential weapons that we can use. Every weapon should have at least one build or playstyle it caters to, not a specific game mode. The problem is that it caters to none right now.

[Pooh.6897]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@jiggle puff.9347 said:Edit: with bleed on AA, are you hinting at a dps buff or would it go along with a direct damage nerf? Also, what are your thoughts on staff skill 4 in general?

Objectively, whether they reduce power damage or not won't change much to the effectiveness of the AA (it just show how bad it already is). I think staff skill#4 is fine.

For me, ideally the staff could provide relief to the scepter in a condi build rotation while right now, it's lack of condition on the AA make it to much of a dps loss. Truth be told, you'd have condi builds more dynamic if scepter wasn't the overwhelming condi alternative of the necromancer. ANet's devs would just have to free

lingering curse

from the requirement to have a scepter in hand for the increase in condition damage and add these few seconds of bleed on staff AA to create a place to the staff in PvE instanced content. None of the marks in this set up would be bad or lacking in any way.

The solution you offer may not be what I had in mind for staff, but it would at least make it a viable weapon for some builds and playstyles. While I still think it would be very cool if Anet decided to make staff a more general-purpose weapon, I would settle for your solution.

[Reknarok.7582]

I’d like staff to do more in regards to poison. I feel like it’s a minionmancer weapon thematically and the death magic trait line does a bit with poison, though I’d like to see more there as well. Things like poison damage gaining carapace stacks or barrier when a target you’ve poisoned is healed. I’d like to see deadly strength changed to either condition damage, or both power and condition damage. Maybe a trait that gives your minions cleave when they strike poisoned targets, or perhaps eating the corruptions they transfer to apply poison on attacks. Obviously I’d have staff AA apply poison, and I would love an AA chain, perhaps giving the third in the chain 1 sec aoe burning, I dunno just spitballing here.

But yeah, I just feel like poison is really under-utilised by necro.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Reknarok.7582 said:I’d like staff to do more in regards to poison. I feel like it’s a minionmancer weapon thematically and the death magic trait line does a bit with poison, though I’d like to see more there as well. Things like poison damage gaining carapace stacks or barrier when a target you’ve poisoned is healed. I’d like to see deadly strength changed to either condition damage, or both power and condition damage. Maybe a trait that gives your minions cleave when they strike poisoned targets, or perhaps eating the corruptions they transfer to apply poison on attacks. Obviously I’d have staff AA apply poison, and I would love an AA chain, perhaps giving the third in the chain 1 sec aoe burning, I dunno just spitballing here.

But yeah, I just feel like poison is really under-utilised by necro.

Main issue with poison is that it's strong in PvP due to the reduced healing while it's basically no stronger than a bleed in PvE. The necromancer already heavily lean on bleed, it's more convenient for players to keep it consistent.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@jiggle puff.9347 said:Wouldn’t it be great though if staff was also useful outside of wvw? :)

It already is useful outside of WvW. It's one of the most effective weapon of the necromancer when farming in open world PvE. It's also an useful weapon to deal with thiefs' stealth in general which mean that it's useful in sPvP and WvW (roaming and zerg).

The only area where it's not really useful is PvE instanced content where an unoptimized weapon like this don't have room to shine. And while the change to

mark of blood

you suggest could make it slightly more useful there, the CD nerf defeat this purpose. As for more boon corruption onto

Putrid mark

, it's plain useless in PvE instanced content.

If you want to make the staff less useless where it is useless, you just have to put 4 seconds (1 second in PvP/WvW) of bleed onto the AA. It will lessen the loss of dps for condi build that would want to put staff into their rotation in PvE.

Sorry, I did not mean that staff is only useful in WvW but that being useful in WvW and receiving a buff may also result in a nerf, like deletion of its trait.

[DeceiverX.8361]

It'd be nice if they just got rid of the dependency on Soul Marks so the weapon was reasonably good on its own. I don't see why it can't just be left as a good AoE kit and make Soul Marks' LF gains baseline and improve the trait. Or just put larger LF gains on skills 2 and 5. A big part of staff's problem is you blow your load and basically swap immediately due to cooldowns, or just stand there doing nothing waiting for recharges which are long comparatively speaking. Both make the weapon feel rather unexciting.

If they made its AA not absolutely suck as well, it'd be fine just with that set of changes since the weapon does have purpose in several scenarios.

Though I really think the weapon's usefulness is overstated. Outside of LF generation in blob fights it's heavily eclipsed by other options.

[Anchoku.8142]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:It'd be nice if they just got rid of the dependency on Soul Marks so the weapon was reasonably good on its own. I don't see why it can't just be left as a good AoE kit and make Soul Marks' LF gains baseline and improve the trait. Or just put larger LF gains on skills 2 and 5. A big part of staff's problem is you blow your load and basically swap immediately due to cooldowns, or just stand there doing nothing waiting for recharges which are long comparatively speaking. Both make the weapon feel rather unexciting.

If they made its AA not absolutely suck as well, it'd be fine just with that set of changes since the weapon does have purpose in several scenarios.

Though I really think the weapon's usefulness is overstated. Outside of LF generation in blob fights it's heavily eclipsed by other options.

The problem is that Necromancer's marks, wells and shades or shouts readily stack in WvW. More AoE Necro's is more condi-pressure hence the shades target quantity and wells ICD being what they are. Staff could get it next.

[Pooh.6897]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@jiggle puff.9347 said:Wouldn’t it be great though if staff was also useful outside of wvw? :)

It already is useful outside of WvW. It's one of the most effective weapon of the necromancer when farming in open world PvE. It's also an useful weapon to deal with thiefs' stealth in general which mean that it's useful in sPvP and WvW (roaming and zerg).

The only area where it's not really useful is PvE instanced content where an unoptimized weapon like this don't have room to shine. And while the change to

mark of blood

you suggest could make it slightly more useful there, the CD nerf defeat this purpose. As for more boon corruption onto

Putrid mark

, it's plain useless in PvE instanced content.

If you want to make the staff less useless where it is useless, you just have to put 4 seconds (1 second in PvP/WvW) of bleed onto the AA. It will lessen the loss of dps for condi build that would want to put staff into their rotation in PvE.

Sorry, I did not mean that staff is

only

useful in WvW but that

being

useful in WvW and receiving a buff may also result in a nerf, like deletion of its trait.

If they would want to buff the staff without making it too prominent in WvW, they'd have to nerf the maximum amount of people it can hit. Like the changes they made to shades earlier this month. Am I mistaken if I say that necro staff is one of the very few weapons that can consistently hit multiple targets from 1200 range? I know ranger longbow has piercing as well, but besides that I think that's it?

[Taril.8619]

@jiggle puff.9347 said:Am I mistaken if I say that necro staff is one of the very few weapons that can consistently hit multiple targets from 1200 range? I know ranger longbow has piercing as well, but besides that I think that's it?

Elementalist Staff, Guardian Staff, Mirage Greatsword, Deadeye Rifle, Revenant Hammer, Dragonhunter Lulbow, Druid Staff and Warrior Lulbow can all hit multiple targets at 1200 range.

Warrior and Engie Rifles also have a limited number of skills that can hit multiple targets at 1200 range (Engie's auto attack and Warrior's skill 3 and F1 in both core and Zerker)

One of the main advantages offered by Staffs over most other 1200 range weapons, is that their attacks aren't projectiles they're mostlly ground target AoE's and so bypass the plethora of Proj Hate that can exist in a WvW Blob.

[Dadnir.5038]

@jiggle puff.9347 said:If they would want to buff the staff without making it too prominent in WvW, they'd have to nerf the maximum amount of people it can hit. Like the changes they made to shades earlier this month. Am I mistaken if I say that necro staff is one of the very few weapons that can consistently hit multiple targets from 1200 range? I know ranger longbow has piercing as well, but besides that I think that's it?

Yes you're mistaken. ;)Ranger can hit multiple targets from farther (yep arrows tend to be broken in this aspect). Elementalist's staff, DH longbow, mesmer greatsword, revenant hammer and engi riffle can hit multiple targets from 1200 as well (not taking into account warrior longbow just because it's AA is usually restricted to a single target). You get the gist of it, weapons consistently hitting multiple targets from 1200 are pretty common (whether players are willing to use them or not is another story).

@Taril.8619 said:One of the main advantages offered by Staffs over most other 1200 range weapons, is that their attacks aren't projectiles they're mostlly ground target AoE's and so bypass the plethora of Proj Hate that can exist in a WvW Blob.

I would say that the fact that the marks last for a long time if not triggered is the most relevant point of the staff's. Most other 1200+ range weapons have some skills that similarly ignore projectile hate. The true value of the marks in PvP/WvW it would be in long lasting area denial when in zerg and visual clue for stealthed foes while roaming. In itself they don't do awesome damage and are easily dismissed with a dodge but their visibility and long lasting presence allow them to put some psychological pressure onto other players.

[Taril.8619]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Ranger can hit multiple targets from farther (yep arrows tend to be broken in this aspect).

It's not arrows being broken, but the fact that Ranger's LB literally has 1500 range.

@Dadnir.5038 said:I would say that the fact that the marks last for a long time if not triggered is the most relevant point of the staff's.

I mentioned STAFFS plural. As in, the weapon type. Not just Necro staff.

Ele, Druid and Guardian staffs don't use marks. They do however use ground targets that still bypass proj hate.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Taril.8619 said:I mentioned STAFFS plural. As in, the weapon type. Not just Necro staff.

Ele, Druid and Guardian staffs don't use marks. They do however use ground targets that still bypass proj hate.

Warrior's and Ranger's longbow also have AoE ability that bypass proj hate. Same goes for mesmer GS and revenant hammer. Being able to bypass projectile hate from 1200 range is not something specific to staffs. (that's what I wanted to convey, apology for the fixation on mark or anything that appeared misleading)

The point is skills that bypass projectile hate from 1200 range are as common as weapon that hit from 1200 range. Marks ain't better than the average skill of other professions, they do have their pro and cons.

[Taril.8619]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Warrior's and Ranger's longbow also have AoE ability that bypass proj hate. Same goes for mesmer GS and revenant hammer. Being able to bypass projectile hate from 1200 range is not something specific to staffs. (that's what I wanted to convey, apology for the fixation on mark or anything that appeared misleading)

Yes, but non-staff weapons also have a lot of skills that are projectiles:

Warrior's Longbow is all projectiles except for skill 3 and F1.Warrior Rifle is all projectiles.Ranger Longbow is projectiles except for skill 5.Dragonhunter Longbow is projectiles except for skills 4 and 5.Deadeye Rifle is all projectiles.Engie Rifle's 1200 skill that hits multiple targets (The auto attack) is a projectile.Mesmer Greatsword skill 2 is a projectile and skill 4 is a projectile (Also, a super squishy NPC which can be countered by rando AoE damage if the proj actually lands)

Compared to Staffs which have far fewer projectile skills:

Elementalist staff Earth auto attack.Weaver Earth/Air dual skill.Druid staff has no projectiles.Necro staff auto attack.Guardian staff auto attack.

The existence of 1-2 attacks on a weapon set that can bypass proj hate is far different to staff in which basically just auto attacks are subject to proj hate (Which are typically also not AoE anyway) as the difference is only being able to use 1-2 skills every 20-30s when there's proj hate and having your full weapon set to utilize sans crummy auto attacks.

[Anchoku.8142]

@jiggle puff.9347 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@jiggle puff.9347 said:Wouldn’t it be great though if staff was also useful outside of wvw? :)

It already is useful outside of WvW. It's one of the most effective weapon of the necromancer when farming in open world PvE. It's also an useful weapon to deal with thiefs' stealth in general which mean that it's useful in sPvP and WvW (roaming and zerg).

The only area where it's not really useful is PvE instanced content where an unoptimized weapon like this don't have room to shine. And while the change to

mark of blood

you suggest could make it slightly more useful there, the CD nerf defeat this purpose. As for more boon corruption onto

Putrid mark

, it's plain useless in PvE instanced content.

If you want to make the staff less useless where it is useless, you just have to put 4 seconds (1 second in PvP/WvW) of bleed onto the AA. It will lessen the loss of dps for condi build that would want to put staff into their rotation in PvE.

Sorry, I did not mean that staff is

only

useful in WvW but that

being

useful in WvW and receiving a buff may also result in a nerf, like deletion of its trait.

If they would want to buff the staff without making it too prominent in WvW, they'd have to nerf the maximum amount of people it can hit. Like the changes they made to shades earlier this month. Am I mistaken if I say that necro staff is one of the very few weapons that can consistently hit multiple targets from 1200 range? I know ranger longbow has piercing as well, but besides that I think that's it?

To add to your point, Marks are essentially traps so they lie dormant and persist until they time out or proc. Soul Marks also makes them unblockable, which is a feature that makes them relatively stronger in WvW where blocks are constant in large skirmishes. These features, along with being ground targeted, make staff very reliable compared to many similar AoE weapons in WvW.

Staff's use in competitive modes could be why it feels weaker than desired in PvE, particularly versus bosses. It is not a dps weapon but it is strongest in WvW.