Ventari Revenant

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

Bs. There IS counterplay. You just dont LIKE it.

You always have options. Sometomes they require things you might not want to do, but hey are available for you and anyone else.

Since I clearly have zero problem with ventari revs as a warrior, I would like to try playing other classes to see what can be done, even just out of personal curiosity.

So if there are any ventari revs here willing to play custom arena wih me, message me. And I would like to know what classes most of you here are playing so I can pick them.

[witcher.3197]

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:Bs. There IS counterplay. You just dont LIKE it.

It always amazes me when people say that freeling handing over the game winning objective is a perfectly fine counter. Seriously wtf.

Also are you NA or EU?

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@witcher.3197 said:

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:Bs. There IS counterplay. You just dont

LIKE

it.

It always amazes me when people say that freeling handing over the game winning objective is a perfectly fine counter. Seriously kitten.

Also are you NA or EU?

Call me noob but I thouht megaserver made it moot? I am physically in NA but my server is EU(Dzagonur)So eu?

let me list just the counters I personally use.

break cc and run to polar nodePlay warriorBoonstrip necro(I only did this once... so dunno about that)Get ranger or stealth thief to support.

Also what is your aim? To take node, kill the rev? What?

I dont understand how you cant on any class just break and run 95% of the time. Give up the node. Give. It. Up. And concentrate elsewhere.

Stop engaging the rev. Wait till he leaves and recap, so what he he got 1 point. Dont be silly and start what you ADMIT is a losing battle on an enemy controlled node!!!!!!

You WILLINGLY GAVE HIM a+6

[witcher.3197]

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 megaservers are regionwide, not cross-region. You can invite people into groups or talk to them but could never enter the same version of a map or instance.

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

for crying out loud giving the ventari rev the node and or waiting for recap is not an way to counter the build. that is bassically doing nothing. The argument doesn't even make sense even if we disregard swiftness and the mobility of ventari rev to actually have decent roaming capabilities.

U don't rotate based on a single build or class in a game. this is 5 v 5 u take in account 9 other players who wil also be counter rotating.

I can't believe even when there are videos of even necros failing to kill this build heck even push it offpoint. Some people here won't even budge on atleast taking away it's ability to push people of point everytime. Vents rev do not die if both players have equal skill level. vent revs do not get outrotated if the player has half a brain.

this is so absurd.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:for crying out loud giving the ventari rev the node and or waiting for recap is not an way to counter the build. that is bassically doing nothing. The argument doesn't even make sense even if we disregard swiftness and the mobility of ventari rev to actually have decent roaming capabilities.

U don't rotate based on a single build or class in a game. this is 5 v 5 u take in account 9 other players who wil also be counter rotating.

I can't believe even when there are videos of even necros failing to kill this build heck even push it offpoint. Some people here won't even budge on atleast taking away it's ability to push people of point everytime. Vents rev do not die if both players have equal skill level. vent revs do not get outrotated if the player has half a brain.

this is so absurd.

Lol ok ok. You are right. But now I realize something. I think you are a bad player. Not a bad x class but just overall a bad human player. As in a bad team player. As in your personal machisimo is MORE VALUABLE TO YOU than the overall team win.

Do you want to win matches or do you want to complain because you cant kill Billy the rev.

For the record, you just made me like revs more.And I hate that class.

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

@"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:for crying out loud giving the ventari rev the node and or waiting for recap is not an way to counter the build. that is bassically doing nothing. The argument doesn't even make sense even if we disregard swiftness and the mobility of ventari rev to actually have decent roaming capabilities.

U don't rotate based on a single build or class in a game. this is 5 v 5 u take in account 9 other players who wil also be counter rotating.

I can't believe even when there are videos of even necros failing to kill this build heck even push it offpoint. Some people here won't even budge on atleast taking away it's ability to push people of point everytime. Vents rev do not die if both players have equal skill level. vent revs do not get outrotated if the player has half a brain.

this is so absurd.

Lol ok ok. You are right. But now I realize something. I think you are a bad player. Not a bad x class but just overall a bad human player. As in a bad team player. As in your personal machisimo is MORE VALUABLE TO YOU than the overall team win.

Do you want to win matches or do you want to complain because you cant kill Billy the rev.

For the record, you just made me like revs more.And I hate that class.

load of nonsense accusations. even if u wanna disregard me, cause i am ''bad''. Is Olrun now a bad player? Are plat tier 2 also bad players?

[messiah.1908]

so few ppl say it needs a nerf ans other say it dont.some say they can handle it and even kill it while some say they cant.some say you can counter it some say they cantwill you decide already :D

[Jekkt.6045]

@"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:for crying out loud giving the ventari rev the node and or waiting for recap is not an way to counter the build. that is bassically doing nothing. The argument doesn't even make sense even if we disregard swiftness and the mobility of ventari rev to actually have decent roaming capabilities.

U don't rotate based on a single build or class in a game. this is 5 v 5 u take in account 9 other players who wil also be counter rotating.

I can't believe even when there are videos of even necros failing to kill this build heck even push it offpoint. Some people here won't even budge on atleast taking away it's ability to push people of point everytime. Vents rev do not die if both players have equal skill level. vent revs do not get outrotated if the player has half a brain.

this is so absurd.

ventari rev doesn't have "decent roaming capabilities". no movement skills and only swiftness is not something i call decent mobility.

either people have forgotten the days of decap engi, or more recently decap druid, or are too new. yes, you rotate based on a single build and you always have against such builds. if you fail to do that you deserve to lose.

on a capped node you fight against the rev until you're decapped. that's when you leave to +1 another node so you can force an outnumbered fight because the rev needs to fullcap the node, or is forced to follow you and leave the node decapped. once you won the teamfight you can just snowball him if it's worth it.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@messiah.1908 said:so few ppl say it needs a nerf ans other say it dont.some say they can handle it and even kill it while some say they cant.some say you can counter it some say they cantwill you decide already :D

Underrated comment. :)

[messiah.1908]

if the only "support" in the team is ventari the build shouldnt be a problem as it can be out rotate if ventari play bunker and not support.if the team has 2 support like ventari and ele than the enemy team should and even must to compare it with their support abilities. same goes if you see both druid and ele.

i had fight where my team (soloq) had bunker guard, support ele and me as ventari/jallis. versus enemy team with 2 necros, s/d thief, mesmer and druid.we won as they couldnt kill us while our 2 dmg dealer get our full support and buff. so should we nerf rev, guard and ele?

also i had a fight where i was the only support as ventari. the enemy team notice that and 2 of them follow me wont let me free play . even if they coulnt kill me sometime they push me and pressure me. in team fight i had 3 targeting me while perma cc. sure my team failed to peal off me some pressure and not targeting the necro.

i think ( as most of my past suggestions took place) if we nerf EE with icd like 10 sec. you wont see this build. why? cause ele is better at support especially with conditions.if we gave EE a buff like more heal and condi cleanse over its nerf cc abilities you will see more QQ as in team support it will be unstoppable and maybe dua Q with another dmg dealer which can sync cc your enemy so nothing will be changed.

after rethinking this issue the best solution is to make ventari too choose between support or bunker. how?traits:natural abundance is the perfect choice for support with 1 more fragment. buff it with each fragment cleanse 1 condition when pickedmomentary pacification is totally unused. change it to 10 sec icd, no fuze time. and give EE 10 sec icd.

this way if you want to go bunker you will push off node and immobilize for 3 sec to decap it. but will need 10 sec to use it again to cap. also enemy player can count and be able to dodge as in 10 sec you gain 1 more dodge and versus magi amulet you save the dodge. and than its mind game. should i use it after 10 sec or 15 sec... also the enemy team has 10 more sec to react with +1 from a thief ...

if i choose support i will take NA to heal bit more and cleanse more.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I think the only thing that needs to change is the type of cc, maybe from a knockback to a 2 sec daze.

[witcher.3197]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think the only thing that needs to change is the type of cc, maybe from a knockback to a 2 sec daze.

With mesmer runes that'd be permanent AoE daze.

Just remove the CC entirely or give the lite a 10 sec CD. It's that simple, Anet pls.

[choovanski.5462]

KB CD is too low. that's the real issue.

sure it's got a lot of sustain, but that's the whole point of the build- can't see why that needs to be nerfed. just focus it.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think the only thing that needs to change is the type of cc, maybe from a knockback to a 2 sec daze.

1 sec daze would be better, but yeah that would do it. the decap is the only issue w the build really.

sustain is fine, condi clear skill could even use a cost reduction imo. because dudes, it's centaur stance it needs to be tanky. it needs to force a 2v1. that's literally it's purpose. only other thing it does is a bit of peel and ok support.

still, you can kill this build 1v1 with heavy cc or condi. my vipers warrior bottoms it. they can't handle me constantly applying 20 confusion stacks lol

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

@Jekkt.6045 I have no issues with Ventari Revenant when it's played as a support. That's the way everybody wants the build to work. However, the fact is, that's not how it's most commonly used, and most top players would agree it's not how it is most effective. The build is tankier than decap Ranger or turret Engineer with more CC. And turret Engineer got nerfed. Also, the build doesn't serve as a way to discourage bunker comps by countering them without going full YOLO. It encourages bunker comps by giving them a tanky way to actually full cap nodes.

[Jekkt.6045]

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:@"Jekkt.6045" I have no issues with Ventari Revenant when it's played as a support. That's the way everybody wants the build to work. However, the fact is, that's not how it's most commonly used, and most top players would agree it's not how it is most effective. The build is tankier than decap Ranger or turret Engineer with more CC. And turret Engineer got nerfed. Also, the build doesn't serve as a way to discourage bunker comps by countering them without going full YOLO. It encourages bunker comps by giving them a tanky way to actually full cap nodes.

the only reason why solo far on it is "most effective" is because people seem to refuse to play around it. decap builds have always been around and have always been as gimmicky. in that regard nothing about ventari rev is new. you're also talking about turret engi, which is not a decap build but an AI build similar to spirit ranger, minion necro and spirit weapon guardian. when i talk about decap engi i'm talking about sentinel rifle flamethrower tumper turret engi which was played before HoT release and basically did the exact same thing like ventari rev just with more mobility, tankyness (back then there was less damage anyway) and kill pressure. decap builds have never been directly nerfed and have never been played much either. they come and go.

as long as you have conquest and as long as people are able to create and play such builds they will always be around. if you want to complain about something complain about conquest, not about builds that make smart use of the conquest mechanic.

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

@Jekkt.6045 said:

@"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:for crying out loud giving the ventari rev the node and or waiting for recap is not an way to counter the build. that is bassically doing nothing. The argument doesn't even make sense even if we disregard swiftness and the mobility of ventari rev to actually have decent roaming capabilities.

U don't rotate based on a single build or class in a game. this is 5 v 5 u take in account 9 other players who wil also be counter rotating.

I can't believe even when there are videos of even necros failing to kill this build heck even push it offpoint. Some people here won't even budge on atleast taking away it's ability to push people of point everytime. Vents rev do not die if both players have equal skill level. vent revs do not get outrotated if the player has half a brain.

this is so absurd.

ventari rev doesn't have "decent roaming capabilities". no movement skills and only swiftness is not something i call decent mobility.

either people have forgotten the days of decap engi, or more recently decap druid, or are too new. yes, you rotate based on a single build and you always have against such builds. if you fail to do that you deserve to lose.

on a capped node you fight against the rev until you're decapped. that's when you leave to +1 another node so you can force an outnumbered fight because the rev needs to fullcap the node, or is forced to follow you and leave the node decapped. once you won the teamfight you can just snowball him if it's worth it.

That's nonsense. U rotate based on the situation the game provide. factors such as several teamfights here and there, hp of your teammates, capped node or not, map mechanics and more. It's absolutely nonsensical to base your entire rotation on a single build. U are practicaly arguing for tunnel vision''ing the entire game.Which is the entire reason we are having this discussion because vents rev exactly pull people who try to decap or beat it.

Decap engi had clear mobility issues. Vent rev does not. Auramancer, bunker druid,symbolic guard were never decappers/pointholders plus tank/support at the same time in which the ''counter'' is suggested is not to fight them, or could be spiked down with necro/thiefs etc. tell me in which the only reasonable counter is not to fight it at all? Vent rev cannot be beaten in any time beneficial for your team in 1 v 1 assuming similar skill level, heck u cannot even decap it once it reasonable time once capped a point. But yeah go decap a vent rev with an skill litterally ment to knock u off point litterally not one but multiple targets, but hey yeah go decap it. it's not like we were arguing this entire thread for. Or u know the rev goes somewhere else and lets u decap take it and has his team play a strong 2 node strategy thanx to his abilities to hold points and push multiple targets off the point. this is assuming u decap it in reasonable time.

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

@Jekkt.6045 The reason people have difficulty rotating around a Ventari Revenant is because it is overpowered against uncoordinated team. That doesn't mean bad players. It just means that you can't communicate and rotate around it effectively in a disorganized queue. That's the reason why, contrary to what you're claiming, they nerf every single decap build as it arises. Turrets used to explode and knock you back after they died. They were nerfed to not knockback on death. The other build is the decap build popularized by Jindavikk. Grouch spammed the build literally to figure out how to nerf it. Neither of those builds were as tanky as Ventari Revenant and had longer cooldowns on their CCs. Longbow Ranger is actually fairly squishy, since you're stuck in Longbow for a long time. That's why the build is only used when the Druid is a better player trying to carry versus weaker ones. Decap builds are nerfed because they are unfun, broken trash. And none had CC as spammable as Ventari Revenant.

[Jekkt.6045]

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:@Jekkt.6045 The reason people have difficulty rotating around a Ventari Revenant is because it is overpowered against uncoordinated team. That doesn't mean bad players. It just means that you can't communicate and rotate around it effectively in a disorganized queue. That's the reason why, contrary to what you're claiming, they nerf every single decap build as it arises. Turrets used to explode and knock you back after they died. They were nerfed to not knockback on death. The other build is the decap build popularized by Jindavikk. Grouch spammed the build literally to figure out how to nerf it. Neither of those builds were as tanky as Ventari Revenant and had longer cooldowns on their CCs. Longbow Ranger is actually fairly squishy, since you're stuck in Longbow for a long time. That's why the build is only used when the Druid is a better player trying to carry versus weaker ones. Decap builds are nerfed because they are unfun, broken trash. And none had CC as spammable as Ventari Revenant.

turret knockbacks really weren't that big to decap you if you stood in the middle of the point. yes ventari rev is more tanky than previous decap builds, but there is also a lot more damage in the game now. and honestly, nerfing the ventari build without butchering its support capabilities wouldn't even be that hard, just turn the knockback into a pull. that way if you stand in the middle of the node you can't get pulled out of it. from my own experience i just feel like this build barely sees any play and isn't a sure win or anything close to it and therefore doesn't need to be nerfed.

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

@Jekkt.6045 Turret Engineer was enough of a problem that people started stacking them in Go4s. Yes, there's more damage in the game, but Ventari Revenant is tankier against the higher damage than the other decap builds were against the lower damage from before. Also, nobody here is calling for the support capabilities of Ventari Revenant to be nerfed. Everybody is calling for its decap capabilities to be nerfed.

[Jekkt.6045]

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:@Jekkt.6045 Turret Engineer was enough of a problem that people started stacking them in Go4s. Yes, there's more damage in the game, but Ventari Revenant is tankier against the higher damage than the other decap builds were against the lower damage from before. Also, nobody here is calling for the support capabilities of Ventari Revenant to be nerfed. Everybody is calling for its decap capabilities to be nerfed.

i've seen people call for a nerf to the tablet explosion, a cooldown or higher energy. that would definitely butcher its support capabilities. healing and cc output of that build should absolutely not get touched at all. the build does basically no damage but has higher healing than tempest. finally there is a 2nd viable healer in the game, i absolutely don't want to see it go away.

[Jekkt.6045]

delete, new forum please.

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

The support capabilities of the tablet are not based around spamming the elite. The main thing it needs is probably a cooldown.

[Jekkt.6045]

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:The support capabilities of the tablet are not based around spamming the elite. The main thing it needs is probably a cooldown.

it is. your main sustain healing comes from the explosion fragments, tablet movement and the damage mitigation it provides through disruption, blind and combo finisher cleanse. you only use your burst heal in emergencies. the explosion has a pseudo cooldown of ~5 seconds

[choovanski.5462]

@Jekkt.6045 said:

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:The support capabilities of the tablet are not based around spamming the elite. The main thing it needs is probably a cooldown.

it is. your main sustain healing comes from the explosion fragments, tablet movement and the damage mitigation it provides through disruption, blind and combo finisher cleanse. you only use your burst heal in emergencies. the explosion has a pseudo cooldown of ~5 seconds

swap it to a short daze then. it will still be really frustrating, but it won't be able to decap any more. it will just heal and daze. will still be great in a teamfight.