Ventari Revenant

[Blood.5607]

@zHasgard.9827 said:

Rotate around the ventari. Not exactly hard, and there should be more posts on s/d condi since since thats twice as worse :^). Also it is still pretty vulnerable to necro or high power dmg spec (if its already 1v1'ing another damage spec), up to that point the ventari can just kite, but most dont.

Dude, why would you afk in node? You can just run to every team fight and troll the game. Everywhere you go your team will win the fights, it's not about avoid it, the rev tablet can move just like anyone else.

I never said i afk node. I know how to use it in 2v1 situations (kite/stall) depending on the classes im against as much as using it as an alternative ele, i agree my rotations need work filling it as an ele roll to support.

[Gandarel.5091]

@Malediktus.9250 said:Yes, but you can play other classes such as druid with glyphs to be similary cheese, it is not unique to ventar rev even if its currently the most prevalent of such bunker builds

Not really. To begin with druid can only have 2 knockbacks (maybe a bit more with some easy to dodge useless gimmick pets) in the build with longbow/staff - 1 more with longbow/gs but that'll just die on point, and those knockbacks have high CDs. If that wasn't enough, longbow knockback is a projectile which can be reflected/destroyed/bodyblocked by AI, and the druid itself won't have much stability so certain builds can take back the ticks. Ventari on the other hand has perma stability and cannot be killed in 1v1 while having an aoe knockback on ~3s cd.

[witcher.3197]

@Malediktus.9250 said:Yes, but you can play other classes such as druid with glyphs to be similary cheese, it is not unique to ventar rev even if its currently the most prevalent of such bunker builds

For 2 years no decap builds were able to emerge because anet learned its lesson.. then they got tired of small ventari buffs and just said "fuck it, we'll make it work even if it breaks the game".

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

I honestly can't see this build being a problem after Scourge and Deadeye are released in a week

[Daharahj.1325]

@witcher.3197 said:The knockback needs to be changed, give it 10s CD or cut the length to 1/4, idk just do something.

It's like the balance team has amnesia: decap engi was nerfed because it was unhealthy for the game, but now they give us ventari rev which is 10 times worse.

I'm fairly sure the PvP dev team had some staff changes since then.

[witcher.3197]

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@witcher.3197 said:The knockback needs to be changed, give it 10s CD or cut the length to 1/4, idk just do something.

It's like the balance team has amnesia: decap engi was nerfed because it was unhealthy for the game, but now they give us ventari rev which is 10 times worse.

I'm fairly sure the PvP dev team had some staff changes since then.

Yes except the PvP team isn't responsible for balance changes, the balance (or "skills") team is and many of them have been around for years.

[messiah.1908]

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

if the build can handle 1v1 it doesnt mean its OP. it means you need +1. ranger versus ele 1v1 they both cant kill each other so lets nerf them?!

Ppl defending this build keeps ignoring the fundamental difference from other support builds.

In druid vs tempest 1v1, no one will be able to decap or cap nodes. With ventari rev, it is so easy to decap anyone and only a matter of time to cap a node.

you right. matter of time. so make the right rotation and +1. this build force a team play not a nerf play.

[messiah.1908]

@zHasgard.9827 said:

Rotate around the ventari. Not exactly hard, and there should be more posts on s/d condi since since thats twice as worse :^). Also it is still pretty vulnerable to necro or high power dmg spec (if its already 1v1'ing another damage spec), up to that point the ventari can just kite, but most dont.

Dude, why would you afk in node? You can just run to every team fight and troll the game. Everywhere you go your team will win the fights, it's not about avoid it, the rev tablet can move just like anyone else.

not with zero nrg. no nrg mean dead rev. if you fail to target it in team fight so sry dude

[messiah.1908]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:I honestly can't see this build being a problem after Scourge and Deadeye are released in a week

deadeye NO . scourge YES.

[Exciton.8942]

@messiah.1908 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

if the build can handle 1v1 it doesnt mean its OP. it means you need +1. ranger versus ele 1v1 they both cant kill each other so lets nerf them?!

Ppl defending this build keeps ignoring the fundamental difference from other support builds.

In druid vs tempest 1v1, no one will be able to decap or cap nodes. With ventari rev, it is so easy to decap anyone and only a matter of time to cap a node.

you right. matter of time. so make the right rotation and +1. this build force a team play not a nerf play.

How is that fair?

My team's bunker can't even bunker against an enemy bunker and requires a +1?

And 2v1 with a bunker and a dps is always bad. The bunker does little damage so you are essentially asking the dps to kill the bunker alone. That could easily go south against sth like ventari rev who has tons of healing.

Basically, the only way to counter is to

1. Have 2 fast rotating dps(eg. mesmer+thief) come to kill the ventari rev
2. Have the original bunker rotate out immediately.

Do you srsly think in solo/duo queues this can be done consistently to actually warrant it as a counter?

[MagicToker.9478]

S/D condi thief and Ventari Revs are healthy for the game. It promotes skillful play and requires you to carefully monitor your cool-downs. One false move on a Ventari Revenant and you are DONE. Condi thief brings a new meaning to the class. With the capability to dwindle your opponent down over time, but remain very vulnerable to incoming burst is a risk reward only the most talented of Guild Wars 2 players dare to take. I've went up against some of the best condi thieves in the game, from Maygi to Asuranos. I can tell you right now, they have the reaction time of lightning, and dodge very gracefully. I've even had the luxury of having the top Ventari rev on my team, Revenant Orisci. Perfectly timing every dodge and knock back to sustain themselves outnumbered, what can I say. The epitome of carrying. Just shows you can't simply pick these builds up, it's something you master, and once you do, you reap all of the fame and glory.

[Darek.1836]

Thank you MagicToker, I haven't thought about those builds in terms of how skillful and cooldown reliant they are! One day I hope I can move on to a more cooldown reliant class like Revenant instead of Guardian.

[Saiyan.1704]

And if there's 2 vent Rev on their team and your team is made up of Ranger/Ranger/DH/Nec/Ele?

You can't exactly see the enemy team's build to counter build against them and Condi Thief are not exactly abundant here... not everyone is a Mesmer or a Thief +1 duo. Sometimes (all the time) matchmaking is terrible.

[Kuya.6495]

Well if this build is over performing both in low skill and high skill rating then i guess that nerf is coming sooner rather than later.

[messiah.1908]

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

if the build can handle 1v1 it doesnt mean its OP. it means you need +1. ranger versus ele 1v1 they both cant kill each other so lets nerf them?!

Ppl defending this build keeps ignoring the fundamental difference from other support builds.

In druid vs tempest 1v1, no one will be able to decap or cap nodes. With ventari rev, it is so easy to decap anyone and only a matter of time to cap a node.

you right. matter of time. so make the right rotation and +1. this build force a team play not a nerf play.

How is that fair?

My team's bunker can't even bunker against an enemy bunker and requires a +1?

And 2v1 with a bunker and a dps is always bad. The bunker does little damage so you are essentially asking the dps to kill the bunker alone. That could easily go south against sth like ventari rev who has tons of healing.

Basically, the only way to counter is to

1. Have 2 fast rotating dps(eg. mesmer+thief) come to kill the ventari rev
2. Have the original bunker rotate out immediately.

Do you srsly think in solo/duo queues this can be done consistently to actually warrant it as a counter?

so again you say i wont change class to counter the enemy class. i wont do rotations and i wont +1. please nerf the build i refuse to play against. common.i havent said send bunker +1 . you can send necro + thief. you can send power guard/warrior + thief/mesmer. if your team bunker cant handle he should change to a class he can handle.if the enemy team has a thief and we dont. you want to nerf thief sb cause we cannot do fast rotation like he does?! or switch 1 player to a thief also

[kKagari.6804]

I think what needs to get adjusted most is the animation for the tablet. When the tablet gets reconstructed via skill 6, the appearance isn't in sync with when the tablet is actually operational i.e. pretty much instantly. If the revenant chooses to explode it straight away, you only get half of the vine wrapping animation.

This point may be a bit moot since the revenant will choose to explode it instantly anyways, its still a QoL change thats needed for both the revenant and the enemy.

That and there really should be a bit more of a charge up time for the explosion ;)

[messiah.1908]

my wish is that delete the kb (YES) and give KD and rev more support via condi cleanse with this skill EE. like

EE now KD and cleasne 3 conditions with no nrg lossing.orEE now KB has 10 sec icd but cleanse also 5 conditions (10 sec is 50 nrg equivalent) with no nrg lossing.

so i wont decap points but be able to do more easily out numbered fights

you will see QQ about how rev can support in 2v3, 2v4 in team fights...

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Case Scenario:

• A guild team named Sharp Cheddar from the guild Cheese Factory, joins an AT.
• They are running 2 Ventaris, 2 Auramancers, 1 Bunker Druid.
• They simply play a strong 2 node hold game, each node centered around each Ventari's priority decapping.
• They don't need to kill anyone, they take nodes with Ventari CCs.
• Of course advanced rotations apply when necessary.

Worse yet, the amount of might/fury/pet damage and CCs being thrown around to prep bursting, will actually be dangerous.When they take a node, they will keep the node. Even if you kill one of them from time to time, it won't be quickly enough.

Now normally in previous metas, running teams of full bunker was not effective because bunkers could be decapped and they didn't provide enough counteroffense to stop the offense of high DPS specs. Bunkers also lacked the ability to DPS down opponents quickly enough to wipe them off a node and retake it.However this balanced relationship between bunker specs and DPS specs in terms of node taking and node holding power is now completely broken with theimplementation of Ventari play. The Ventari's flash CC "Energy Expulsion", allows it to decap nodes alone vs. multiple players and apply plentiful amounts ofcounter offensive CC to stop enemy bursting/stomping before it even happens.

In a nutshell: Before Ventari Bunker CC spam, a team actually needed DPS specs to take nodes.Now, all you need to take nodes is a couple of Ventari Bunkers with CC spam and the fill the rest of your slots with other Bunkers to hold the nodes.This is not only unhealthy for the direction of conquest play but it is very boring gameplay that will inevitably push away otherwise solid player base.

~ Energy Expulsion is too powerful in conquest. It needs a nerf.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Case Scenario:

• A guild team named Sharp Cheddar from the guild Cheese Factory, joins an AT.
• They are running 2 Ventaris, 2 Auramancers, 1 Bunker Druid.
• They simply play a strong 2 node hold game, each node centered around each Ventari's priority decapping.
• They don't need to kill anyone, they take nodes with Ventari CCs.
• Of course advanced rotations apply when necessary.

Worse yet, the amount of might/fury/pet damage and CCs being thrown around to prep bursting, will actually be dangerous.When they take a node, they will keep the node. Even if you kill one of them from time to time, it won't be quickly enough.

Now normally in previous metas, running teams of full bunker was not effective because bunkers could be decapped and they didn't provide enough counteroffense to stop the offense of high DPS specs. Bunkers also lacked the ability to DPS down opponents quickly enough to wipe them off a node and retake it.However this balanced relationship between bunker specs and DPS specs in terms of node taking and node holding power is now completely broken with theimplementation of Ventari play. The Ventari's flash CC "Energy Expulsion", allows it to decap nodes alone vs. multiple players and apply plentiful amounts ofcounter offensive CC to stop enemy bursting/stomping before it even happens.

In a nutshell: Before Ventari Bunker CC spam, a team actually needed DPS specs to take nodes.Now, all you need to take nodes is a couple of Ventari Bunkers with CC spam and the fill the rest of your slots with other Bunkers to hold the nodes.This is not only unhealthy for the direction of conquest play but it is very boring gameplay that will inevitably push away otherwise solid player base.

~ Energy Expulsion is too powerful in conquest. It needs a nerf.

A team like this will be completely irrelevant once scourge exists in 9 days

[Abelisk.4527]

Scourge will be the new cancer/aids, calling it now.

[Khenzy.9348]

They drop like a sack of potatoes against a heavy condis comp. But yeah, they can be annoying with their knockback spam.

[Exciton.8942]

@messiah.1908 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

if the build can handle 1v1 it doesnt mean its OP. it means you need +1. ranger versus ele 1v1 they both cant kill each other so lets nerf them?!

Ppl defending this build keeps ignoring the fundamental difference from other support builds.

In druid vs tempest 1v1, no one will be able to decap or cap nodes. With ventari rev, it is so easy to decap anyone and only a matter of time to cap a node.

you right. matter of time. so make the right rotation and +1. this build force a team play not a nerf play.

How is that fair?

My team's bunker can't even bunker against an enemy bunker and requires a +1?

And 2v1 with a bunker and a dps is always bad. The bunker does little damage so you are essentially asking the dps to kill the bunker alone. That could easily go south against sth like ventari rev who has tons of healing.

Basically, the only way to counter is to

1. Have 2 fast rotating dps(eg. mesmer+thief) come to kill the ventari rev
2. Have the original bunker rotate out immediately.

Do you srsly think in solo/duo queues this can be done consistently to actually warrant it as a counter?

so again you say i wont change class to counter the enemy class. i wont do rotations and i wont +1. please nerf the build i refuse to play against. common.i havent said send bunker +1 . you can send necro + thief. you can send power guard/warrior + thief/mesmer. if your team bunker cant handle he should change to a class he can handle.if the enemy team has a thief and we dont. you want to nerf thief sb cause we cannot do fast rotation like he does?! or switch 1 player to a thief also

You seriously need to learn to read. I already mentioned the only solution and how imbalanced the effort needed to counter the spec.

It is beyond me how you even regard 2v1 as a proper balanced counter.

I have nothing more to say. You are just ignoring logic.

[Exciton.8942]

There are so many simple ways to fix this broken bullshit. Plz do it anet.

I will just list 2 here

1. Increase minimum energy cost to 25
2. Change the knockback to stun

[messiah.1908]

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

if the build can handle 1v1 it doesnt mean its OP. it means you need +1. ranger versus ele 1v1 they both cant kill each other so lets nerf them?!

Ppl defending this build keeps ignoring the fundamental difference from other support builds.

In druid vs tempest 1v1, no one will be able to decap or cap nodes. With ventari rev, it is so easy to decap anyone and only a matter of time to cap a node.

you right. matter of time. so make the right rotation and +1. this build force a team play not a nerf play.

How is that fair?

My team's bunker can't even bunker against an enemy bunker and requires a +1?

And 2v1 with a bunker and a dps is always bad. The bunker does little damage so you are essentially asking the dps to kill the bunker alone. That could easily go south against sth like ventari rev who has tons of healing.

Basically, the only way to counter is to

1. Have 2 fast rotating dps(eg. mesmer+thief) come to kill the ventari rev
2. Have the original bunker rotate out immediately.

Do you srsly think in solo/duo queues this can be done consistently to actually warrant it as a counter?

so again you say i wont change class to counter the enemy class. i wont do rotations and i wont +1. please nerf the build i refuse to play against. common.i havent said send bunker +1 . you can send necro + thief. you can send power guard/warrior + thief/mesmer. if your team bunker cant handle he should change to a class he can handle.if the enemy team has a thief and we dont. you want to nerf thief sb cause we cannot do fast rotation like he does?! or switch 1 player to a thief also

You seriously need to learn to read. I already mentioned the only solution and how imbalanced the effort needed to counter the spec.

It is beyond me how you even regard 2v1 as a proper balanced counter.

I have nothing more to say. You are just ignoring logic.

2v1 is a tactic you should try in pvp. with a thief i mean. have fun killing ventari fast

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

@Exciton.8942 said:

2. Change the knockback to stun

I agree with this.it's one thing to have a bunker, but for the bunker to litterally push u off point is too much, it's a support, decapper and bunker in one and that is absurd.

it's a nice change of pace to have a proper bunker again. u could argue a good symbolic could semi bunker as well. but this is fun. no need to increase energy costs. just change it to stun.

if scourge and spellbreaker are closely resembling what they are in thier betas then ventari rev will have natural hardcounters within 2 weeks or so. no need to increase energy costs.