Ventari Revenant

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

I did not say the elite wasn't used to support. I said spamming it was not. Also, the pseudo-cooldown is literally only the two seconds it takes you to recharge your ten energy at a rate of five per second, plus the one second it takes to activate If you want to move the tablet from the summoned location to destroy the cast animation, it costs another five energy, increasing the cooldown to four seconds. The cooldown for the skill is three seconds only if you include the activation time. Otherwise, the cooldown is two seconds.

[sephiroth.4217]

@messiah.1908 said:so few ppl say it needs a nerf ans other say it dont.some say they can handle it and even kill it while some say they cant.some say you can counter it some say they cantwill you decide already :D

It's hard to decipher.

As far as I can tell, people are speaking from different tier levels and thinking of different Revs they have versed. A top tier player who is very skillful, is making it hard for other players to beat him, but a low tier player isn't having any trouble fighting these Revs. Then there are players who have adapted thier builds in order to beat them, then there are those who don't. Some change tactics at every engagement, some use the exact same rotations on every class and hope for the best.

Game changes next week anyway. Hopefully people let the meta shift.

[Jekkt.6045]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@messiah.1908 said:so few ppl say it needs a nerf ans other say it dont.some say they can handle it and even kill it while some say they cant.some say you can counter it some say they cantwill you decide already :D

It's hard to decipher.

As far as I can tell, people are speaking from different tier levels and thinking of different Revs they have versed. A top tier player who is very skillful, is making it hard for other players to beat him, but a low tier player isn't having any trouble fighting these Revs. Then there are players who have adapted thier builds in order to beat them, then there are those who don't. Some change tactics at every engagement, some use the exact same rotations on every class and hope for the best.

Game changes next week anyway. Hopefully people let the meta shift.

i think in a week nobody's gonna talk about ventari rev anymore anyway. condi thief might be a different topic because deadeye just doesn't look as viable (for now) as daredevil.

[Substance E.4852]

@Exciton.8942 said:Such a well-written and well-thought out post gets way more thumb down than ups?

Seems it is not the dev's but the community's fault to have a declining PvP scene.

That pretty much happens in virtually every game.

People all say they want "balance" but in reality, half are playing the cheese and another 1/4 want it to stick around so they can posture on forums by acting like it isn't a big deal and they never have a problem facing it.

[messiah.1908]

i assume ANET wont touch anything till month after the release of POF. new builds coming with lots of conditions pressure, tankiness and high dmg output.maybe ventari will be the savior versus those build.assuming scourge, FA weaver, deadeye , spellbreaker and holosmith teaming up. can be damn high burst dmg which will need so much blocking, cleanse, and healing to counter it.

ventari can be perfect as support along side KB. if you spam it you will lose all your healing ability due to no nrg left. versus deadeye you have nice block time for your team. versus spellbreaker nice blind, versus holosmith and weaver good kb to release pressure from its huge dps.scourge will handle ventari on point and migh even win in 1v1.so wait and see please.

so to all the ppl who still QQ i urge you to start theorycraft new builds

[witcher.3197]

@messiah.1908 said:

ventari can be perfect as support along side KB.

A disease is supposed to be cured, not perfected.

[messiah.1908]

@witcher.3197 said:

@messiah.1908 said:

ventari can be perfect as support along side KB.

A disease is supposed to be cured, not perfected.

cant you read the whole sentence ? wait for POF than will see how you QQ about scourge, spellbreaker and holosmith and you will pray for ventari to support you....

[Archon.6480]

The OP is right. The Ventari Revenant is playing the same role as a season 1 bunker Mesmer or Druid. We've been here before.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Jekkt.6045 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@messiah.1908 said:so few ppl say it needs a nerf ans other say it dont.some say they can handle it and even kill it while some say they cant.some say you can counter it some say they cantwill you decide already :D

It's hard to decipher.

As far as I can tell, people are speaking from different tier levels and thinking of different Revs they have versed. A top tier player who is very skillful, is making it hard for other players to beat him, but a low tier player isn't having any trouble fighting these Revs. Then there are players who have adapted thier builds in order to beat them, then there are those who don't. Some change tactics at every engagement, some use the exact same rotations on every class and hope for the best.

Game changes next week anyway. Hopefully people let the meta shift.

i think in a week nobody's gonna talk about ventari rev anymore anyway. condi thief might be a different topic because deadeye just doesn't look as viable (for now) as daredevil.

I saw a condi deadeye S/D thief during the beta... thing was OP as hell, but I didn't know what I was doing either.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@messiah.1908 said:so few ppl say it needs a nerf ans other say it dont.some say they can handle it and even kill it while some say they cant.some say you can counter it some say they cantwill you decide already :D

It's hard to decipher.

As far as I can tell, people are speaking from different tier levels and thinking of different Revs they have versed. A top tier player who is very skillful, is making it hard for other players to beat him, but a low tier player isn't having any trouble fighting these Revs. Then there are players who have adapted thier builds in order to beat them, then there are those who don't. Some change tactics at every engagement, some use the exact same rotations on every class and hope for the best.

Game changes next week anyway. Hopefully people let the meta shift.

The meta will definitely shift, so nerfing now is probably not a wise idea. But this is something a close eye needs to be kept upon. HoT brought about some of the tankiest builds this game has seen, and PoF seems to have gone the other direction. But comparing HoT builds against PoF? HoT builds may yet win.

[narcx.3570]

Ventari/retribution rev is one of my favorite things to see on the other team, because while, ya it's annoying af, it gimps their team so bad. It's not strong enough to completely bunker and has zero damage output... And the second they try to do either of those things, they lose all their annoying point control anyways. They're so much dead weight, I'll never understand all the QQ... They will never be the reason you lost that game. If anything, you would have lost that game no matter what that rev was doing because the other 4 people on his team just out played/rotated you.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Hey anet needs builds in game kids can use. i mean they have a profanity filter so builds maybe a 3 year old could pick up and play like bunk rev, condi or staff jumping bean teef, and block block burn guard makes kiddos happy. There are builds that require very little skill and most are in the teef class. If you think about it after assassin late in gw1 anet got a hard on for that class type. Hell they even made a map style for pvp specifically for teef players. Conq circle dancing requires a teef to run around the circles and decap (lol deadeye will never be used since its slow). Usually the low skill players are those who use a broken joke anet build and take advantage of it just to claim to be good. lol takes me back to the days of gw1 and touch necros or touch rangers (while they lasted). Didn't require much skill and they were fun to upset by owning since they thought a broken build made them good.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

get good at dodging and stop complaining. the tablet exploding has a huge tell.

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

You can cast the elite once every three seconds, which is three times faster than dodges recharge. The tell can also be completely hidden by moving the tablet while it explodes.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

I'm sure this probably was said earlier but I figured I'd throw my two cents in. Ventari rev as a bunker alone isn't necessarily bad. The unbalanced part about the build is that it is very easily used in an offensive manner.

If instead of the knockback, the rev was just very good at holding its own node and surviving +1s, the build would be "more balanced". A build that cannot provide enough pressure to kill anything else in the game should not have the ability to push into a node it does not currently own and then win it. The threat of killing the opponent on their own node is the only balanced way to effectively take an enemy node in conquest. The issue is that ventari rev does not have this. It cannot kill its opponent, but rather just spam knockback to push the enemy of their node. Yes, you can have stab and dodge for a while, but eventually it is going to be neutralized at minimum. This is the problem. It pushes into matchups that it cannot win and it cannot provide enough pressure to even remotely challenge the enemy on the node, yet it eventually wins/neutralizes every matchup.

[narcx.3570]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:I'm sure this probably was said earlier but I figured I'd throw my two cents in. Ventari rev as a bunker alone isn't necessarily bad. The unbalanced part about the build is that it is very easily used in an offensive manner.

If instead of the knockback, the rev was just very good at holding its own node and surviving +1s, the build would be "more balanced". A build that cannot provide enough pressure to kill anything else in the game should not have the ability to push into a node it does not currently own and then win it. The threat of killing the opponent on their own node is the only balanced way to effectively take an enemy node in conquest. The issue is that ventari rev does not have this. It cannot kill its opponent, but rather just spam knockback to push the enemy of their node. Yes, you can have stab and dodge for a while, but eventually it is going to be neutralized at minimum. This is the problem. It pushes into matchups that it cannot win and it cannot provide enough pressure to even remotely challenge the enemy on the node, yet it eventually wins/neutralizes every matchup.

Really though, the Ventari Rev is only winning this decap war vs other bunkers... Anyone with any amount of offensive point pressure is going to clear the rev right on out of there as soon as they get back up... Even when I'm playing something hybrid like Sage, I can easily kill/clear out the rev fast enough to avoid being +1'ed with no problem.

I think most of the salt is coming from the other bunker classes (and probably condi thiefs trying to spam dagger 3 on top of the tablet--but lol, no sympathy for those guys.) They're used to playing their ele/scrapper/guardian, stacking as many defensive stats as they can and going spam heals at far for the win. You see a special amount of QQ from the guardians and scrappers, who you may recognize as have been doing the exact same thing as ventari revs for the past 4 seasons with their various shield bubbles, tag gyros, mag pulls, and tornados.

[Razor.6392]

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:Even when played poorly, it is much more effective than that displayed skill level. There is little risk, but it can be very rewarding.

Welcome to GW2 pvp. Literally every meta class is like this.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

@narcx.3570 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:I'm sure this probably was said earlier but I figured I'd throw my two cents in. Ventari rev as a bunker alone isn't necessarily bad. The unbalanced part about the build is that it is very easily used in an offensive manner.

If instead of the knockback, the rev was just very good at holding its own node and surviving +1s, the build would be "more balanced". A build that cannot provide enough pressure to kill anything else in the game should not have the ability to push into a node it does not currently own and then win it. The threat of killing the opponent on their own node is the only balanced way to effectively take an enemy node in conquest. The issue is that ventari rev does not have this. It cannot kill its opponent, but rather just spam knockback to push the enemy of their node. Yes, you can have stab and dodge for a while, but eventually it is going to be neutralized at minimum. This is the problem. It pushes into matchups that it cannot win and it cannot provide enough pressure to even remotely challenge the enemy on the node, yet it eventually wins/neutralizes every matchup.

I think most of the salt is coming from the other bunker classes (and probably condi thiefs trying to spam dagger 3 on top of the tablet--but lol, no sympathy for those guys.) They're used to playing their ele/scrapper/guardian, stacking as many defensive stats as they can and going spam heals at far for the win. You see a special amount of QQ from the guardians and scrappers, who you may recognize as have been doing the exact same thing as ventari revs for the past 4 seasons with their various shield bubbles, tag gyros, mag pulls, and tornados.

I haven't fought a ton of them TBH, but it wouldn't surprise me if DPS classes who aren't at the very top level have trouble killing ventari rev. Can a silver/gold level DH/warrior/mesmer/etc provide enough pressure on their own node to kill a ventari rev (or make them leave) before they get decap'd? I'm inclined to think no, but I also don't want to dive too deep into a rabbit hole about where skill level comes into balance.

Either way, your point about other bunkers is valid. I think some of those skills are just as toxic for gameplay, but one difference is that none of them are on a ~3s cooldown. If you could spam those other large AOE knockbacks as frequently, we'd be in a similar situation.

[OlrunTheBlade.1486]

Top level DPS players cannot kill decent Ventari Revs 1v1. If you're killing it 1v1, then you're playing against absolute garbage.

[narcx.3570]

The sad part is that come Friday, every rev is going to have to play Ventari for the cleanse or just instantly die to all the new condibombing classes and their spellbreaker/scourge teammates making sure resistance is literally unusable.

Please a.net, just give revenant's realistic access to cleanse so we don't all have to resort to Ventari cheese. :scream:(Temporary % decreases to condition damage is not an effective defense against them in PvP... It didn't work with Jalis and it won't work with Renegade.)

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:Hey anet needs builds in game kids can use. i mean they have a profanity filter so builds maybe a 3 year old could pick up and play like bunk rev, condi or staff jumping bean teef, and block block burn guard makes kiddos happy. There are builds that require very little skill and most are in the teef class. If you think about it after assassin late in gw1 anet got a hard on for that class type. kitten they even made a map style for pvp specifically for teef players. Conq circle dancing requires a teef to run around the circles and decap (lol deadeye will never be used since its slow). Usually the low skill players are those who use a broken joke anet build and take advantage of it just to claim to be good. lol takes me back to the days of gw1 and touch necros or touch rangers (while they lasted). Didn't require much skill and they were fun to upset by owning since they thought a broken build made them good.

I have never been killed (solo) by a thief.Why are you so mad at thief?

Did a thief...steal you heart?

[Ziggityzog.7389]

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:Hey anet needs builds in game kids can use. i mean they have a profanity filter so builds maybe a 3 year old could pick up and play like bunk rev, condi or staff jumping bean teef, and block block burn guard makes kiddos happy. There are builds that require very little skill and most are in the teef class. If you think about it after assassin late in gw1 anet got a hard on for that class type. kitten they even made a map style for pvp specifically for teef players. Conq circle dancing requires a teef to run around the circles and decap (lol deadeye will never be used since its slow). Usually the low skill players are those who use a broken joke anet build and take advantage of it just to claim to be good. lol takes me back to the days of gw1 and touch necros or touch rangers (while they lasted). Didn't require much skill and they were fun to upset by owning since they thought a broken build made them good.

I have never been killed (solo) by a thief.Why are you so mad at thief?

Did a thief...steal you heart?

Man wow you are stalking me.. It's getting a tad creepy now Mr. Free candy van man.

No i loved assassin in gw1 and i started as teef main at gw2 release, heck he has my account name to show. Yet after having such epic pvp in guild wars 1 then coming to such a crap game mode where 1 class has a full advantage in gw2 i got bored of easy wins just after a few months and I haven't touched my teef much since. Tho i have the teef so easy to use and win with a 3 year can play win builds on stand by for fun and i have 1 of each profession so i know how to play with and against them. Just getting a laugh at the noobers who use broken builds to win.

[Vagrant.7206]

@narcx.3570 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:I'm sure this probably was said earlier but I figured I'd throw my two cents in. Ventari rev as a bunker alone isn't necessarily bad. The unbalanced part about the build is that it is very easily used in an offensive manner.

If instead of the knockback, the rev was just very good at holding its own node and surviving +1s, the build would be "more balanced". A build that cannot provide enough pressure to kill anything else in the game should not have the ability to push into a node it does not currently own and then win it. The threat of killing the opponent on their own node is the only balanced way to effectively take an enemy node in conquest. The issue is that ventari rev does not have this. It cannot kill its opponent, but rather just spam knockback to push the enemy of their node. Yes, you can have stab and dodge for a while, but eventually it is going to be neutralized at minimum. This is the problem. It pushes into matchups that it cannot win and it cannot provide enough pressure to even remotely challenge the enemy on the node, yet it eventually wins/neutralizes every matchup.

Really though, the Ventari Rev is only winning this decap war vs other bunkers... Anyone with any amount of offensive point pressure is going to clear the rev right on out of there as soon as they get back up... Even when I'm playing something hybrid like Sage, I can easily kill/clear out the rev fast enough to avoid being +1'ed with no problem.

I think most of the salt is coming from the other bunker classes (and probably condi thiefs trying to spam dagger 3 on top of the tablet--but lol, no sympathy for those guys.) They're used to playing their ele/scrapper/guardian, stacking as many defensive stats as they can and going spam heals at far for the win. You see a special amount of QQ from the guardians and scrappers, who you may recognize as have been doing the exact same thing as ventari revs for the past 4 seasons with their various shield bubbles, tag gyros, mag pulls, and tornados.

Uhhhh... Most of the time I rank among the highest DPS on my teams (with DH and scrapper). It usually requires me and a spiker (thief) to come close to taking a ventari rev out, generally. I'm by no means playing a bunker, I just happen to be tough.

And yeah, DH definitely has some knockbacks. It's also very easy to kill. Scrapper has very few CC's, and is a little more tough, but you can just run from the damage.

[messiah.1908]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:I'm sure this probably was said earlier but I figured I'd throw my two cents in. Ventari rev as a bunker alone isn't necessarily bad. The unbalanced part about the build is that it is very easily used in an offensive manner.

If instead of the knockback, the rev was just very good at holding its own node and surviving +1s, the build would be "more balanced". A build that cannot provide enough pressure to kill anything else in the game should not have the ability to push into a node it does not currently own and then win it. The threat of killing the opponent on their own node is the only balanced way to effectively take an enemy node in conquest. The issue is that ventari rev does not have this. It cannot kill its opponent, but rather just spam knockback to push the enemy of their node. Yes, you can have stab and dodge for a while, but eventually it is going to be neutralized at minimum. This is the problem. It pushes into matchups that it cannot win and it cannot provide enough pressure to even remotely challenge the enemy on the node, yet it eventually wins/neutralizes every matchup.

the first time i post this build in those forums and meta battle everyone told me its bad build. even though i emphasis the ability to control point everybody still hold their claim. ele is better, ranger is stronger in bunkering etc...no one would use ventari only for its support ability unless anet will buff them . but if they buff them it may become the best support class and maybe op in this manner.

so what has change? more ppl start to use it and get better with it. no one try to fight or counter it yet. even though ppl show how they kill it so fast or how they rotate the match and won it.

regarding your post you said couple of things :i dont see problem holding a point own my on. ranger does the same even in 1v2 while ranger putout nice pressure.who decide that the only way to push out enemy off node is by doing dmg? the game designed to push off point and hold them so we need every way to do so. by doing direct dmg, condi dmg, cc (like fear, kb, immobilize) or by uneven fights (mental fear of dying)also you state "eventually" which mean time. if the enemy team dont react to the time factor this is good thing to use tactic in hold point game.and fyi ppl start to see as again i stated that guards are very good at counter ventari kb with lots of aegis, block, stabilty rotation although if you allow ventari too much time he will do it EVENTUALLYyou also said "It pushes into matchups that it cannot win and it cannot provide enough pressure to even remotely challenge the enemy on the node". but this is the challenge LOL. for the first time ppl starting to puzzle what the hell i can do versus enemy i cannot kill or hold the point but wth he also cant kill me.

[messiah.1908]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

I haven't fought a ton of them TBH, but it wouldn't surprise me if DPS classes who aren't at the very top level have trouble killing ventari rev. Can a silver/gold level DH/warrior/mesmer/etc provide enough pressure on their own node to kill a ventari rev (or make them leave) before they get decap'd? I'm inclined to think no, but I also don't want to dive too deep into a rabbit hole about where skill level comes into balance.

again to balance on class cause other low lvl player cant hold ??? by this logic we need to balance the game by our low noob tier players.ranger also can hold its own and even ele so lets nerf them too. you gonna see more firebrand guard with stability and aegis spam so please w8

[Saiyan.1704]

Replace Vent Rev in this thread with Turret Engi... the majority here knows the end result of that story. The only thing standing in front of this particular epilogue is Path of Fire. So we'll continue to talk about it and continue to fact check the same people who, for some reason, are still trying to defend that AFK class.

Still comparing Bunk Rev to Ranger @messiah.1908? One class that takes kiting skills in just 1v1 while the need to kite in a 1v2 is a must. While attempting to bunk an owned point when it is always an inevitable Contested-turned node? Yet the other class goes afk only until it sees a 1v2...? Oh wait... they're Gold T1... nvm he's not going to kite - yea, he's just standing there on point still.... just.. trolling my non-Plat team.

The comparison is quite clear for sure.