Little confused about what traits affect which skills

[ehgz.4306]

The wiki lists which traits affect which skills.

Like it says these skills affect bombs

Short Fuse Short Fuse — Gain fury when you hit a foe with an Explosion.Steel-Packed Powder Steel-Packed Powder — Explosions cause vulnerability.Shrapnel Shrapnel — Explosions have a chance to cripple and cause bleeding on hit.Backpack Regenerator Backpack Regenerator — Recover health every second when using an Engineering Kit.

But is this all the traits that affect bombs?

What about the Chemical Rounds trait that increases conditional damage. Wouldn't it help with your fire bomb?

I'm looking at this build

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdEQFASnsTBlchlXBubBEqilBj6LAWv3TMALhQg+zz8OH-jFDXABjeBAwc/BZVDoxHAAU6AiWJIVKd6RVAAUCJsygYVpQKVU2MIAMBAmkkokst8EpA8bZE-w

The guy takes bombs yet he doesn't equip bombs or grenades. Do the bomb traits help anyway?

How do you know which traits affect which skills other than testing?

.

[Veprovina.4876]

Condition damage from trait increase affects all condition damage no matter the source - unless otherwise stated - such as (example) "increased condition damage when wielding a torch". So yes, that trait would help with fire bomb since that bomb does condition damage, again, unless stated otherwise in the trait.

I'm not an Engi main, but that build doesn't make sense at all. Here's a list of explosions in the game. He has none of those skills equipped so any benefit from traits that coems from explosions won't happen. Weird... Maybe an engi main can explain why take explosions idk...

That build looks all over the place. Usually no one mixes that much stat combinations because you get no benefits by being a jack of all trades. This seems to be either a meme build or someone's experimental build...

You know how traits affect things by reading them, they're pretty self explanatory. Bomb traits say they trigger on explosions. So you know that when you do an explosion you'll get that effec like fury or vulnerability. That build just (at a first glance) seems really bad.

Maybe also ask on the engi forums, they might know more.

[steki.1478]

Can confirm, this build is absolute garbage.

[Veprovina.4876]

@steki.1478 said:Can confirm, this build is absolute garbage.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions! :smile:Just looking at the build it made 0 sense, especially the Bomb traitline and the gear...There you go @nope.6073 , it's not you, it's the build. You understood traits well, the build just sucks.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

The build in question is a WvW build for a Heal-Scrapper. It heals, cleanses, weakens enemies and can deal good damage - for a healer. Rather optimized for fighting enemy groups with a secondary focus on tagging and control. This thing is probably extremely annoying to kill and may drop as one of the very last players, if at all.

Why run Explosives?

• Big Thanks to ANet for changing Electro-whirl into an Explosion skill. Logic wise it makes no sense at all, but this skill behaves like an explosion.
• Explosives (traitline) grants access to a passive skill called Explosive Entrance, that renders your first attack as an Explosion, even if it is a pile of mud. The passive buff restores upon dodging. So almost every skill in this build can be an Explosion. That is why it is no longer neccessary to run Grenades, Bombs or the Mortar while having this traitline equipped.
• An Explosion is an AoE damage, with a target-cap of 5.
• If you combine Explosive Entrance with a skill that already hits up to 5 targets, you hit more than 5 targets in total.
• With all the previous points, Explosive Temper is permanently on 10 charges, while in combat.
• Let us talk about Explosion stacking. Thanks to Explosive Entrance, it is technically possible to double-charge a skill with an Explosion. This happens when you have EE activated and use it in combination with a skill that already counts as an Explosion. So you get the damage of the original attack, the effect of its original Explosion and the effect of the additional Explosion from EE. With Electroing-whirl, this can hit very hard on a lot of enemies at once. With Impact Savant in mind, you should be able to fill a big part of barrier-pool at once - if you have enough enemies around you.

Regarding the stats.

• with the active buffs available in WvW, crit-rate caps around 87 %. With only Fury, it caps at 65 % - both is acceptable, considering what this build is capable of doing in the first place. It is not a PvE build and it is not a DPS build, so reaching 100 % is not the goal. If you look at the Infusions, you will see that it was not randomly bodged together.
• Zealot and Crusader for Healing Power and Toughness. With already 175 Toughness from the Runes, you need not so much from stats. 382 within the OK range. They could go a little higher. But the stustain of this beast is already very high.
• Marauder pieces are basically Berzerker's with a greater focus on Precision. The vitality is taken to negate the negative side-effect of Impact Savant. It is not completely gone, but they basically saved 1.5 k damage points in total. 1k HP and 500 barrier. For only two Marauder pieces, this is great.

Overall, I think the build is great and well balanced.

[Cyninja.2954]

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:It heals, cleanses, weakens enemies and can deal good damage - for a healer.

The build heals less than a dedicated heal scrapper, it dedicates an entire trait line to being able to do at best mediocre damage, if at all, when engaging in combat and after dodges. Dodges which could be used to heal team mates. It has 0 boon duration, which makes the non existant Purity of Purpose, the main reason to even run support scrapper in WvW, less effective.

Sorry, it's a gimmick build for maybe some low man roaming squads. If you run this in any type of dedicated WvW content you will get destroyed and be absolutely ineffective.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

It does heal less than a dedicated heal-scrapper, yes. But this build seems not aim to outclass a dedicated heal-scrapper. In this special case, we do not even know who created it and what they really had in mind for this. I can only speculate myself. But considering a build junk, just because someone does not understand its true functionalities is not right.

I engaged in this thread not to corrupt anyone off the divine meta. That was not the point. The topic-creator was confused about trait-lines and why someone would pick Explosives (trait) without any explosive-kit. I explained that and gave a few personal thoughts about how the other things could work together. By now, you know how I think. My focus is on sustain. As this build also focuses on sustain, I appear to like it.

The meta is and always will be superior to any non-meta build. Humans have personal preferences. We are not machines. At least I am not one ^^.

[Urud.4925]

Apparently that build has been suggested 2 years ago, as "damage oriented scrapper that still does over 1k heals on med kit auto"I never played scrapper but it was interesting to read @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 's explanation. Also, according to the wiki, Electro-whirl became an explosion exactly 1 year ago, so AFTER this build. You found an additional reason for the explosive trait that the creator didn't know (yet) :D

[Cyninja.2954]

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:It does heal less than a dedicated heal-scrapper, yes. But this build seems not aim to outclass a dedicated heal-scrapper. In this special case, we do not even know who created it and what they really had in mind for this. I can only speculate myself. But considering a build junk, just because someone does not understand its true functionalities is not right.

Agreed, I simply put into context of how much value those support aspects are. Purity of Purpose is THE defining trait for support scrapper in WvW. There is no understanding or not understanding. Not picking the trait is like running a heal firebrand without providing quickness in pve, or stability in WvW: some people do it (the pve part), and those builds are strait up inferior in every possible way.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:I engaged in this thread not to corrupt anyone off the divine meta. That was not the point. The topic-creator was confused about trait-lines and why someone would pick Explosives (trait) without any explosive-kit. I explained that and gave a few personal thoughts about how the other things could work together. By now, you know how I think. My focus is on sustain. As this build also focuses on sustain, I appear to like it.

The meta is and always will be superior to any non-meta build. Humans have personal preferences. We are not machines. At least I am not one ^^.

This has nothing to do with meta or not. There are tons of off-meta builds which can work perfectly fine.

This build runs HGH over Purity of Purpose, for the 2 elixir skills it has. While having Medkit and Elixir Gun slotted. It runs rune of the Defender for the what, 1 block the player has? Meanwhile no Sigil of Energy for more dodges in case Explosive Entrance is not just there for giggles. It's an absolute hosh-posh mix of stats without rhyme or reason.

There is meta builds, there is off-meta builds and there is just strait up bad builds. This one checks all the boxes for the later.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I know you guys are not interested in the Engineer and I am totally fine with that. To each their own. Our traits and synergies are hard to spot and probably even hard to understand for other classes. Here we go again:

@Cyninja.2954 said:This build runs HGH over Purity of Purpose, for the 2 elixir skills it has. While having Medkit and Elixir Gun slotted.

• Elixir U
• Toss Elixir U (Elixir U toolbelt)
• Healing Mist (Elixir Gun toolbelt)
• Acid Bomb (Elixir Gun skill 4)
• Super Elixir (Elixir Gun skill 5)

@Cyninja.2954 said:It runs rune of the Defender for the what, 1 block the player has?

• Shock Shield
• Gear Shield

@Cyninja.2954 said:It's an absolute hosh-posh mix of stats without rhyme or reason.

You do not see a system. I see the stats are carefully selected. In this point we simply just not agree - happens ^^.

---

This is the major reason I almost stopped talking about builds on this board. Everything that does not fit your ideals gets bashed. It is bad by design and you do not stop bashing it. Even if it is designed for non-meta use, even if it is clearly stated that the build does not aim to compete against the meta. You keep stressing how inferior and bad and useless it is. And you always claim that it is the general opinion, not just your personal understanding.

I am glad builds in GW2 are not as stiff as in other MMORPGs. We can adjust them to situations and personal preferences. Most of them do not fit your idea of a good build. Noted.

[Cyninja.2954]

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:I know you guys are not interested in the Engineer and I am totally fine with that. To each their own. Our traits and synergies are hard to spot and probably even hard to understand for other classes. Here we go again:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:This build runs HGH over Purity of Purpose, for the 2 elixir skills it has. While having Medkit and Elixir Gun slotted.

• Elixir U
• Toss Elixir U
  (Elixir U toolbelt)
• Healing Mist
  (Elixir Gun toolbelt)
• Acid Bomb
  (Elixir Gun skill 4)
• Super Elixir
  (Elixir Gun skill 5)

Oh sorry, I should have mentioned actually useful elixir skills where cd reduction is meaningful over PoP.

Healing Mist is already on a 10s cd, the gain is marginal. The gain of 2s reduction is not significant. Acid Bomb can be useful IF utilizing the finisher and movement component (both in canceling and letting it run). Super Elixir would benefit more from PoP than shaving a bit of cd.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:It runs rune of the Defender for the what, 1 block the player has?

• Shock Shield
• Gear Shield

Yeah my bad, I did miss the Wrench skill. Now it's a rune for 2 blocks. It's still a terrible bonus (unless it works off of aegis, which I would have to test, which would make it slightly less terrible but still not great).

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:It's an absolute hosh-posh mix of stats without rhyme or reason.

You do not see a system. I see the stats are carefully selected. In this point we simply just not agree - happens ^^.

Sure, to each their own. I see a typical "I want to do everything" stat mix which so often happens when people pay with the build editor.

It's not hard to create synergies between different components in this game. The hard part is knowing which are significant and valuable enough to make and aim for in a build.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:This is the major reason I almost stopped talking about builds on this board. Everything that does not fit your ideals gets bashed. It is bad by design and you do not stop bashing it. Even if it is designed for non-meta use, even if it is clearly stated that the build does not aim to compete against the meta. You keep stressing how inferior and bad and useless it is. And you always claim that it is the general opinion, not just your personal understanding.

Obviously it is my personal understanding. What is beyond my personal understanding is the fact that non meta builds are created every single day, most of which do not work as well for the content they are made for. Which in turn leads to friction when disparity between the creator and other players arises due to lack of performance.

This build, if this was run by a support engi in WvW in my group (in case I am not on suppoer scrapper), would immediately stand out, and not in a good way. That's why I said it "might" be something for small-scale where a mix of damage and support "could" be useful.

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:I am glad builds in GW2 are not as stiff as in other MMORPGs. We can adjust them to situations and personal preferences. Most of them do not fit your idea of a good build. Noted.

It's not that things not fitting the ideal getting bash is an issue. It's that actually creating useful builds IS difficult and the performance difference between builds is INSANE. You are seeing what you want to see with the stats (and this would count double IF the build was created before the change to Elector-whirl and reading through the linked thread basically confirms what I said: the build is not designed for big fights so small scale roaming at best), without weighing the actual impact and usefulness of the different components.

Listen, I don't care if topic creator plays this build or not. I don't care if he enjoys it or not. If he does, more power to him. What I won't do is praise or complement a build which misses the mark on so many essentials and might cause the player issues in group content (no matter if pve or wvw). The very least he should do is contact the build creator and get feedback on what this build is designed for and how it players.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

@Cyninja.2954 said:... What I won't do is praise or complement a build which misses the mark on so many essentials and might cause the player issues in group content (no matter if pve or wvw).

That is truly an honorable motive. This brings up an interesting question. What about solo-content? Open World and Story are solo-content, where you can run whatever you want. If a build, which is obviously not fitting your ideals of a good build, is posted exclusively for solo-content, would you still bash it at all costs? Would you recommend other players to stay away from such a build? There is obviously no harm done to others, so for enjoying the game alone, those builds should be tolerated.

I never asked you to praise these builds. But pointing at the build and calling it trash, I consider as bashing. That is destructive criticism imo.

[Cyninja.2954]

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:... What I won't do is praise or complement a build which misses the mark on so many essentials and might cause the player issues in group content (no matter if pve or wvw).

That is truly an honorable motive. This brings up an interesting question. What about solo-content? Open World and Story are solo-content, where you can run whatever you want. If a build, which is obviously not fitting your ideals of a good build, is posted exclusively for solo-content, would you still bash it at all costs? Would you recommend other players to stay away from such a build? There is obviously no harm done to others, so for enjoying the game alone, those builds should be tolerated.

I never asked you to praise these builds. But pointing at the build and calling it trash, I consider as bashing. That is destructive criticism imo.

I've always held the believe that players can run what ever they want in solo and open world content.

On a related note, all my criticism towards this build have been towards WvW and mostly as squad build so far in this thread.