Fractal CMs, why 99 before 98?

[Andovar Edoras.2143]

So this is something i still havent understood. Some people rage and leave if cm98 is done before 99. Is there any particular reason to do 99 CM first? (old cms, so excluding 100). If the team is planning to play both, and the fractal machine just rolls it from 98 to 99 anyway, whats the big deal, especially enough to leave some people confused and causing them to leave? (Ive noticed these people tend to have 10k+ ufe)

Edited May 11, 2021 by Andovar Edoras.2143

[Nastavious.1249]

I always assumed it was because if your group can complete the hardest one first then the others should be no problem, and people dont want to complete the lower ones first only to fail on the highest and have to find a new party. 

[Linken.6345]

They may think you done 99 and will leave after 98

 

[Pikls.8710]

It is because the Powerful Potion of Slaying Scarlet's Armies. It works on Arkk, and works on all bosses within Nightmare. It's just more efficient on potion/food costs.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Not like that potion cost a whole lot though...

[Pikls.8710]

You have to consider the wasted time on the Sharpening Stone (or other utility) too. It all adds up and the main reason most people do fractals is for gold.

[Andovar Edoras.2143]

So its because of a 2s potion? Lol alright then, thats kinda pathetic of an excuse when it comes to some overreactions ive come across.

 

 

I always thought its best to do 98 first because its harder to do with a pug compared to 99. You can kinda tell if people are good or not by how they handle mama.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Andovar Edoras.2143
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[Pikls.8710]

Hey man I agree, but that's just how it is. Don't get your panties in a twist lol.

[Black Storm.6974]

Personally, I would not rage but I would also avoid playing with pugs that want to start CMs from 98.

It is not only about the optimisation of the usage of potions and about the habit of starting from 99 (things I also appreciate), but also the problem that in my experience, most people who want to start from 98 have already completed 99, but they don’t tell you that, so after 98 they leave and you have to start looking for people again. 
 

I appreciate the convention of completing Fractal in a specific order (from higher to lower) because it makes easier to avoid people who have already competed a Fractal and would leave the group, and that doesn’t only apply to CM, but also to daily T4 + Recommended. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Black Storm.6974

[Wolfb.7025]

When I used to have my own fractal CM group with people I personally trained with I reinforced the habit to start with 100 (shattered observatory) first because of the same reason said here, to use a scarlet potion on arkk and then get the most out of it in nightmare, and pick T4s related to scarlet armies.

 

At some point Scarlet Potions costed 12s due to scarcity until anet introduced the recipe on a dragon bash event a year or two ago. But even if they cost 3s now, there is no point on using 2 on the same run if you can just run 99 and then 98.

[Scorgrim.5290]

If u rly want to be cost efficient and optimise at the same time u start at 98 and use Dragon's Breath Buns for mama and siax and then use Bowl of Sweet and Spicy Butternut Squash Soup for enso,99cm and the rest of t4.

Thats the reason, i think, u do 98 before 99.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Scorgrim.5290

[Andovar Edoras.2143]

So its mainly just a routine habit, and the optimization of a potion. I doubt the "what if theyve done 99 already" is quite as valid in this case, if the lfg Clearly states "98/99CM".

 

[Black Storm.6974]

4 hours ago, Andovar Edoras.2143 said:

So its mainly just a routine habit, and the optimization of a potion. I doubt the "what if theyve done 99 already" is quite as valid in this case, if the lfg Clearly states "98/99CM".

 

I’ll explain that to you.

 

The lfg stating 98/99CM doesn’t stop anyone from joining and using a group to make 98 (cause maybe that person have already completed 99) and leave.

The convention of starting from 99 increases the probability that if someone have already completed one of the two Fractal, it will be 99. So, by following the convention I am increasing the probability to avoid people who would leave the group after one Fractal.

 

The same is true for T4 dailies, doing them from higher to lower reduces the chances to occur into people who uses the others to do one of the Fractals and leave.

 

What I’m describing happened many times to me, and so I (as many others) have learned that is better to follow the convention when looking for people in the lfg.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Black Storm.6974

[WaRioRofthelight.8065]

23 hours ago, Pikls.8710 said:

It is because the Powerful Potion of Slaying Scarlet's Armies. It works on Arkk, and works on all bosses within Nightmare. It's just more efficient on potion/food costs.

It's actually the other way around 😄 

You're supposed to start with 98 cause you play Buns + Scarlet. You swap out Buns on ensol for ascended food (or spicy butternut) then you swap out Scarlet for Sharpening stones (or writs of strengh if you're in a good group) until Arkk where you swap out Sharpening stones for Scarlet again. Tbh if you're just pugging and not in a static you could skip swapping on Arkk and stick with what you already have up on you for t4 afterwards.

If you start with 99 you have to use 2 times ascended food (or 2 times spicy butternut) so yeah do the maths 😉

So yeah to answer OP, it's just because people are afraid that you're gonna leave after the 98 😕

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by WaRioRofthelight.8065

[Black Storm.6974]

1 hour ago, WaRioRofthelight.8065 said:

It's actually the other way around 😄 

You're supposed to start with 98 cause you play Buns + Scarlet. You swap out Buns on ensol for ascended food (or spicy butternut) then you swap out Scarlet for Sharpening stones (or writs of strengh if you're in a good group) until Arkk where you swap out Sharpening stones for Scarlet again. Tbh if you're just pugging and not in a static you could skip swapping on Arkk and stick with what you already have up on you for t4 afterwards.

If you start with 99 you have to use 2 times ascended food (or 2 times spicy butternut) so yeah do the maths 😉

So yeah to answer OP, it's just because people are afraid that you're gonna leave after the 98 😕

 

Most people I met don’t care at all about Dragon’s Breath Buns, they just start from 99 with Ascended food (which is good for both CMs and T4) and Sharpening Stone, then they eat the Scarlet Potion for Ark, and do all 99 bosses with it and swap to Sharpening Stone again for T4 dailies. Which is two less swapping.

 

What you described is:
Buns (Mama) > Ascended food (other CM + T4).

Scarlet Potion (Nightmare CM) > Sharpening Stone > Scarlet Potion (Ark) > Sharpening Stone (T4s)

 

What I do is:

Ascended food (CMs + T4).

Sharpening Stone > Scarlet Potion (Ark + Nightmare CM) > Sharpening Stone (T4s)

Edited May 12, 2021 by Black Storm.6974

[Wolfb.7025]

2 hours ago, WaRioRofthelight.8065 said:

It's actually the other way around 😄 

You're supposed to start with 98 cause you play Buns + Scarlet. You swap out Buns on ensol for ascended food (or spicy butternut) then you swap out Scarlet for Sharpening stones (or writs of strengh if you're in a good group) until Arkk where you swap out Sharpening stones for Scarlet again. Tbh if you're just pugging and not in a static you could skip swapping on Arkk and stick with what you already have up on you for t4 afterwards.

If you start with 99 you have to use 2 times ascended food (or 2 times spicy butternut) so yeah do the maths 😉

So yeah to answer OP, it's just because people are afraid that you're gonna leave after the 98 😕

 

My humble opinion:

 

If you're gonna play this tryhard I assume you are aiming for a high score (high numbers) yet you're missing power from food on the first 25% burst if you're using dragon breath on MAMA and first 33% on Siax, which is something huge.

 

I know, because I'm quite the tryhard myself, but I don't even bother about using dragon breath when I know it would definitely work on increasing my numbers (when boss is at 75% and 66% respectively) AND i'm in a constant journey on breaking my personal records as Rifle Holo on fractals, yet I also don't want to spend silver on BiS food and I use the standar avocado smoothie when no one puts ascended (and I still sometimes manage to break my records regardless).

Edited May 12, 2021 by Wolfb.7025

[WaRioRofthelight.8065]

On 5/12/2021 at 6:13 PM, Black Storm.6974 said:

Most people I met don’t care at all about Dragon’s Breath Buns, they just start from 99 with Ascended food (which is good for both CMs and T4) and Sharpening Stone, then they eat the Scarlet Potion for Ark, and do all 99 bosses with it and swap to Sharpening Stone again for T4 dailies. Which is two less swapping.

 

What you described is:
Buns (Mama) > Ascended food (other CM + T4).

Scarlet Potion (Nightmare CM) > Sharpening Stone > Scarlet Potion (Ark) > Sharpening Stone (T4s)

 

What I do is:

Ascended food (CMs + T4).

Sharpening Stone > Scarlet Potion (Ark + Nightmare CM) > Sharpening Stone (T4s)

What i described is the optimal way of using food cost wise if you actually looking for optimisation of food dps wise. I might be wrong but I've played in high groups and we were doing that so yeah dunno.

 

 

22 hours ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

My humble opinion:

 

If you're gonna play this tryhard I assume you are aiming for a high score (high numbers) yet you're missing power from food on the first 25% burst if you're using dragon breath on MAMA and first 33% on Siax, which is something huge.

 

I know, because I'm quite the tryhard myself, but I don't even bother about using dragon breath when I know it would definitely work on increasing my numbers (when boss is at 75% and 66% respectively) AND i'm in a constant journey on breaking my personal records as Rifle Holo on fractals, yet I also don't want to spend silver on BiS food and I use the standar avocado smoothie when no one puts ascended (and I still sometimes manage to break my records regardless).

If you look at any record run on Mama and Siax you'll notice that Buns is better 😄

But yeah at the end of the day that all comes down to if you want a proper run with high dps or not :D. You can go with no food at all and still do the cms+t4 without any trouble o/

Edited May 13, 2021 by WaRioRofthelight.8065

[Ashyrra.2109]

I always prefer to run 98 before 99 because you use Dragon's Breath Bun on both MAMA + Siax (with Scarlet Army utility for all 98CM).

Then you can drop ascended power food at Ensolys (because Dragon's Breath Bun does not work on Enso).

 

When you reach 99CM, you just have to swap to Sharpening Stone utility for Skorvald + Arts. At Arkk, you will have to swap back to Scarlet Army utility (but it's very cheap...).

 

It would be much more expensive to do otherwise and to drop twice ascended food (at 99CM and then again for Ensolys - because you have to use Dragon's Breah Bun for MAMA + Siax).

[Andovar Edoras.2143]

So people are actually divided on this..Hmm..

I do usually run with a 3 or 4 person static (so the last one, the dps, is the random pug).

[Armen.1483]

Apart from the food utility problem described above by many, there is sometimes a misunderstanding within the groups. Sometimes people think that the given fractal is done so they feel betrayed and skip. Can't blame them because those kinds of things happen sometimes. However if you write in chat if they want to do a given fractal before another one and give the reason everyone will be ok for that. A good example for that: I always like doing Siren's Reef or Deepstone right after Sunqua Peak. This enables playing condi firebrands on those fractals before swapping to power on CM99 or CM98. Same can be done for anything else. Just communicate beforehand and everything will be fine.