Ventari Roaming Revisited: Celestial Blessings

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Throughout my years in WvW, I have attempted to push Ventari builds into the realm of roaming. While they have always been fun to play, every build I have tried to make has felt like it still belongs in the "meme" category despite all efforts. Ventari, being the awkward legend that it is, just couldn't really adapt enough to the demands of a proper roaming build. However, with the most recent patch, the celestial stat set has been a blessing for the legend, and I finally feel like I can play a roaming Ventari build that feels like it is actually strong and viable. I felt compelled to share this here out of pure happiness for finally not feeling like I am horribly handicapping myself by roaming with the tablet.

 

The Build

 

The build isn't particularly innovative and the traits are all rather predictable, but between how insanely strong shortbow is and with how disgustingly overstacked celestial is now, the external factors carry the build to a successful degree of viability. With running a full celestial build, I wanted to be able to take advantage of all the different stats, and with Mallyx being nerfed the way it has been, I felt mixing both Shiro & Ventari was a good way of being able to do so. It lacks heavy condition pressure, but with the frequently high stacks of might from Vindication, it is still a worthy investment considering the natural hybridity of shortbow. While the build's greatest weakness is high spike power damage, it has really incredible "sustained sustain" between Ventari and Resilient Spirit. Additionally, with how much damage the build can actually avoid from its high projectile denial uptime, it feels even beefier. It also has really great cleanse potential (both self and AoE), and thus far has felt very strong against any sort of condition build. Some fights I have encountered are naturally stalled due to the nature of sustain v sustain fights, but that is what happens when you run a sustainy legend with cele gear. However, it still has surprisingly high damage for how much sustain investment it has, making it a very potent 1v1er with rather strong kill pressure. I also feel like I can contribute quite a lot to smaller scale fights. Beyond power spike damage being a weakness, being CC'd while in Ventari is another, but it feels exponentially less dire since the damage reduction of the big February balance patch. 

 

The build is by no means hard to play due to how easy shortbow is to be effective with, it just takes time to get familiar with how to use Ventari. I wouldn't say the build is "perfected" by any means; the rune choice as well of Sigil of Air feel like wildcards, but the rest of it feels very solid. I decided to go with Rev runes because it is one more boon for maximizing Resilient Spirit, and also any sort of chill feels really horrible to play against while in Ventari as it severely slows tablet movement, which is a very key component to survival and success. Sigil of Air is left over from my previous/outdated power variant of this that I was using before the patch, but I haven't felt much of a need to change out of it. If I did, I would maybe choose Absorption or Doom. I also am usually too lazy or indifferent to using food/utility, but I do like to use healing food to round off the healing  power a little more.

 

Anyway, not trying to oversell the build by any means. It is probably *overall* weaker than the traditional meta power Shiro/Jalis variant, but it undeniably has its advantages and has brought me more enjoyment because I get to play Ventari with it. I greatly disagree with ANet adding expertise and concentration to the celestial spread, but it has been a blast profiting from the change nonetheless. The build is total cheese, but it's WvW after all. If you give it a spin let me know how it goes for you!

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Looks nice! Can't wait to test it! 

 

Lowkey very potent alacrity uptime hmm. Alacrigade in WvW?  🤣

[Za Shaloc.3908]

43 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Looks nice! Can't wait to test it! 

 

Lowkey very potent alacrity uptime hmm. Alacrigade in WvW?  🤣

 

Hope you enjoy :). The Alacrity uptime is good if you spam Natural Harmony, but that is very energy intensive so I only use the skill if I am trying to resustain. You can always take Righteous Rebel in groups but you will definitely feel a pretty big decrease in damage without the might from Vindication, which IMO is a pretty important component to the build for actually securing kills. Every so often I will swap when I am with a bunch of pugs and my damage doesn't make much of a difference or the enemy has high projectile denial uptime. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

Hope you enjoy :). The Alacrity uptime is good if you spam Natural Harmony, but that is very energy intensive so I only use the skill if I am trying to resustain. You can always take Righteous Rebel in groups but you will definitely feel a pretty big decrease in damage without the might from Vindication, which IMO is a pretty important component to the build for actually securing kills. Every so often I will swap when I am with a bunch of pugs and my damage doesn't make much of a difference or the enemy has high projectile denial uptime. 

Do you think Kalla as a legend can be useful in this build? Actually what about the other Legends in general, with Ventari being the locked one ofc. 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

4 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Do you think Kalla as a legend can be useful in this build? Actually what about the other Legends in general, with Ventari being the locked one ofc. 

 

My thoughts:

- The nerf to Soulcleave was so brutal that I would not really seriously consider running Kalla.. I don't think the legend is unplayable by any means, but adding a 1s ICD to Soulcleave makes it not worth ever casting in WvW, which was a huge reason to even running Kalla to begin with in a game mode that is IMO the least compatible with the summon mechanic. I just don't see much value in running the legend beyond maybe some 1v1s or some niche smallscale fights. The daze spirit can be clutch on downs, but otherwise, I'd choose something else. 

-I haven't run with Mallyx too much at all after the patch but personally, the playstyle of this build is all about camping shortbow and kiting nonstop, and Mallyx is all about PBAoE control and has much better PvP/WvW synergy with mace/x. With the change to resistance, I wouldn't personally choose to run with it. I find the constant pressure of Impossible Odds and the general kiteability of Shiro to not be worth dropping for what you gain from Mallyx.

-Jalis works really well with Ventari and would be my personal recommendation if you swap Shiro out. The stab road and Rite of the Great Dwarf are both so strong and really great for teamfights. I occasionally swap to Jalis when fighting pull-heavy groups that won't let me poke at them, and I'm sure it makes a solid 1v1er, but as a roaming build I wouldn't take it simply because it leaves you completely devoid of mobility. Most roaming Necros seem to run speed runes nowadays so if you're going to get outrun by even the slowest class in the game, you're in trouble and at constant risk of getting melted in a +1 that you can't kite out. This isn't to say that other legends don't have their own advantages over Shiro, I just think that as a roaming build, Shiro feels like too important of a component to justify taking it. 

[Jaykay.9641]

Summoning Necro for this thread....

 

Just wanted to bring attention to this build as it is seeing some play in WvW. In fact, @Vallun.2071 even made a guide on it for his YouTube channel. Video can be seen here - Ventari is Viable . There's some minor changes like sigils, runes, and food, but everything else is spot on.

 

With a combination of Celestial stats still dominating roaming and the current state of shortbow, I don't see this build going away any time soon. Well done @Za Shaloc.3908. You've created a monster 🙂

 

Personal rant: I love theorycrafting and fringe builds, but this build highlights my 4 least favorite things that I dislike about Revenant.

• First, Core Rev  is the only core profession that lacks a ranged dueling weapon (No hammer is not a dueling weapon, it's an AoE zerg weapon). Shortbow fixes all of these issues.
• Second, Salvation trait lines are so 1 dimensional; you usually take all the talents in a row that corresponds typically to a game mode.
• Third, maybe 2A, Salvation trait line usually gets limited value unless you use Ventari Legend.
• Finally, the reliance on Invocation trait line and Rapid Flow for swiftness. Core Rev is the only profession that gets it's ONLY source of swiftness from a trait, not a weapon ability or utility. It's probably intentional design, but Rapid Flow really limits trait lines for Core and Renegade, and most likely the new E-Spec if there is no source of swiftness on it's utilities or new weapon. (I try my hardest to refrain from using Invocation that for my personal Renegade build, I've resorted to running Celestial stats with Speed Runes and double Sigil of Agility for the perma Swiftness uptime. But this can be used by profession)

 

So while I love the build, and it's even mentioned in the OP that talents are predictable, I just wish some more care was taken in the design of these things.  /end rant

[Za Shaloc.3908]

7 hours ago, Jaykay.9641 said:

Summoning Necro for this thread....

 

Just wanted to bring attention to this build as it is seeing some play in WvW. In fact, @Vallun.2071 even made a guide on it for his YouTube channel. Video can be seen here - Ventari is Viable . There's some minor changes like sigils, runes, and food, but everything else is spot on.

 

With a combination of Celestial stats still dominating roaming and the current state of shortbow, I don't see this build going away any time soon. Well done @Za Shaloc.3908. You've created a monster 🙂

 

Personal rant: I love theorycrafting and fringe builds, but this build highlights my 4 least favorite things that I dislike about Revenant.

• First, Core Rev  is the only core profession that lacks a ranged dueling weapon (No hammer is not a dueling weapon, it's an AoE zerg weapon). Shortbow fixes all of these issues.
• Second, Salvation trait lines are so 1 dimensional; you usually take all the talents in a row that corresponds typically to a game mode.
• Third, maybe 2A, Salvation trait line usually gets limited value unless you use Ventari Legend.
• Finally, the reliance on Invocation trait line and Rapid Flow for swiftness. Core Rev is the only profession that gets it's ONLY source of swiftness from a trait, not a weapon ability or utility. It's probably intentional design, but Rapid Flow really limits trait lines for Core and Renegade, and most likely the new E-Spec if there is no source of swiftness on it's utilities or new weapon. (I try my hardest to refrain from using Invocation that for my personal Renegade build, I've resorted to running Celestial stats with Speed Runes and double Sigil of Agility for the perma Swiftness uptime. But this can be used by profession)

 

So while I love the build, and it's even mentioned in the OP that talents are predictable, I just wish some more care was taken in the design of these things.  /end rant

 

Hey, thanks so much for pointing this out! I have encountered Vallun quite a few times out in the wild while using this so perhaps it inspired him. I have been meaning to make a gameplay video since posting this thread, but I am too lazy when it comes to recording, so it's cool to see such a similar build showcased in a video.

 

I can understand all of his rune/sigil choices. Honestly the thing with this build is that so much can work with it, as long as you fit cleansing/energy into it in some way. Since making this post I have been running with Doom more often, but I am still really a fan of purity on shortbow because I feel much less inclined to swap off of it in order to proc cleansing, which only really feels necessary when I get burst condi'd. Haven't thought of Antitoxin but I've never felt it to be necessary, though maybe it's because I use purity sigil.

 

In regards to the rest of your post: I agree with a lot of what you say. I would say that is rather common in a lot of traitlines across all classes though. That is the risk of trying to fit too many different roles within one traitline--it makes the choices rather obvious when you are after a particular thing, making it not really feel like much of a choice at all. I tend to think Devastation is one of the better-designed ones in this regard, despite there being clear meta picks in endgame PvE (which there always will be). I do wish in Salvation that there were more/better traits within the line to diversify the ways that Rev can support. While the self-sustain ones are very nice to have, it limits one's options if building for a proper support build, and then you just have the healing orb traits making a mockery of the top line.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

Looks like a flexible build, one could swap from shiro to jalis for more oriented group fights as well.

 

Kala is useless i managed to KB kala utility spirit skills out of my way toward enemy  🤡  here take ur kalla ghost back, best way to avoid  burn dodges and kite is not even needed 🤪

Edited August 4, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Za Shaloc.3908]

6 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Looks like a flexible build, one could swap from shiro to jalis for more oriented group fights as well.

 

Kala is useless i managed to KB kala utility spirit skills out of my way toward enemy  🤡  here take ur kalla ghost back, best way to avoid  burn dodges and kite is not even needed 🤪

 

Yup Jalis works really nicely for teamfights but it is a pretty noticable drop in DPS/kill potential. I also find it a lot more boring.

 

Haha I love fighting Kalla Renes on the build exactly because of the knockbacks from Ventari elite. So funny to see them get bounced around.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Trying this out in Silverwastes / general open world with some celestial armour i had lying around. I also had some ascended trinkets without stats assigned so I went ahead and converted to celestial. I had been meaning to make a WvW build with Marauder's anyway, so something effective in WvW with open world utility seemed interesting. My main set is, obviously, Diviners to get into Fractal groups. 

 

I have to say, even in open world it's fun. I saw a thief getting eaten by mordrem and for the first time, realised I could save them. The projectile blocking is great too.

 

Am undecided on runes and sigils thus far, and on whether to stick with staff or double sword. Staff is pretty great for mullering groups of mobs that are about to get out of control though.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

1 hour ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Trying this out in Silverwastes / general open world with some celestial armour i had lying around. I also had some ascended trinkets without stats assigned so I went ahead and converted to celestial. I had been meaning to make a WvW build with Marauder's anyway, so something effective in WvW with open world utility seemed interesting. My main set is, obviously, Diviners to get into Fractal groups. 

 

I have to say, even in open world it's fun. I saw a thief getting eaten by mordrem and for the first time, realised I could save them. The projectile blocking is great too.

 

Am undecided on runes and sigils thus far, and on whether to stick with staff or double sword. Staff is pretty great for mullering groups of mobs that are about to get out of control though.

 

Glad to hear it is working out for you in PvE too! I take it into open world PvE on occasion and it works nicely despite having a bit of a longer time to kill. In groups I will change out all the Salvation traits to the healing modifiers and the Rene GM to Righteous Rebel, so at the very least the group support becomes significantly better. Still better options out there, but for being an off-meta build it still offers pretty good support with okay enough dps. Haven't tried swapping staff out for anything in PvE, but I would guess mace/axe would probably provide the most value?

 

Good luck if you bring it out to WvW! I have been seeing a lot more of the build since Vallun released his vid on his own variant of it. 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

1 hour ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

Glad to hear it is working out for you in PvE too! I take it into open world PvE on occasion and it works nicely despite having a bit of a longer time to kill. In groups I will change out all the Salvation traits to the healing modifiers and the Rene GM to Righteous Rebel, so at the very least the group support becomes significantly better. Still better options out there, but for being an off-meta build it still offers pretty good support with okay enough dps. Haven't tried swapping staff out for anything in PvE, but I would guess mace/axe would probably provide the most value?

 

Good luck if you bring it out to WvW! I have been seeing a lot more of the build since Vallun released his vid on his own variant of it. 

 

I've not tried mace/axe yet, I grabbed staff mostly for the dash. My mace/axe skins are much better though. And that's a serious consideration for a game mode where mashing the keyboard is also totally a valid play style.