About roles

[Grand Marshal.4098]

So everyone is quite familiar with the 'roles' that each build can focus on a PvP game. So here I wanted to ask a couple of things regarding 3 of these roles. 

 

Roamers (+1, decap) 

Duelists

Bruisers (sidenoders) 

 

I've heard people say (and it's true to a degree) that specs like Spellbreaker, Scrapper and partially Holosmith can be considered Bruisers. But at the same time they can bring very good mobility to their kit, which would essentially allow them to have the 'roamer' role as well. Correct me if you think that's not the case though. Similarly, the role of duelist is meant to usually fight on node or force fights off-enemy node to allow for a decap. A Weaver or a mesmer is probably the best example I have in my mind of a duelist, but they don't have to be light-Armored. Still, forcing 1v1s and having to be able to withstand even outnumbered situations to make sure your team will succeed, gives off a vibe similar to that of Bruisers. 

 

My main concern while making this post was:

 

1) Can most Bruisers (sidenoders) be capable Roamers? 

2) Can most Bruisers be capable Duelists? 

 

Reason I ask of this also ties into my personal expectations for EoD and how I was thinking on how my ideal new spec for warrior should be a duelist-type with very aggressive 1v1 abilities. I'm positive this can happen and still have a distinct feeling from Spellbreaker, which many see as the best bruiser and duelist from the warrior specs. 

 

Obviously this applies to other professions as well. So what are your thoughts on my questions? Can the roles be mixed and matched, while also maintaining an unique play despite the similarities in their game play? 

 

 

[RedAvenged.5217]

You got it backwards. Duelist, which is 1v1 centric, is the one capable of being a roamer. They generally have dps to where they can force kills on anyone by themselves.

 

side noders tend to have so little damage and so little mobility that they just afk on sides. Weaver is actually a decent side noder and duelist, but it’s roaming potential is kind of weak, so good example or a duelist/side noder.

 

mesmer is more an example of a roamer/duelist, since it has high mobility and good 1v1 potential.

 

in short yes, many roles are fluid. You actually just need to play to the strength of your build or if your team needs you in a certain role - to play that role. That’s how you win, nothing more nothing less 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

uh they're all pretty much the same thing aren't they?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

17 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

You got it backwards. Duelist, which is 1v1 centric, is the one capable of being a roamer. They generally have dps to where they can force kills on anyone by themselves.

 

side noders tend to have so little damage and so little mobility that they just afk on sides. Weaver is actually a decent side noder and duelist, but it’s roaming potential is kind of weak, so good example or a duelist/side noder.

 

mesmer is more an example of a roamer/duelist, since it has high mobility and good 1v1 potential.

 

in short yes, many roles are fluid. You actually just need to play to the strength of your build or if your team needs you in a certain role - to play that role. That’s how you win, nothing more nothing less 

Ah OK that clarifies things a bit. 

 

I remember that Shiro Herald was considered a good roamer. But is it an example of a bad duelist? Cause of a hit and run game play. I haven't used Rev a lot though in pvp to be 100% sure. 

 

In any case, I'll be glad with a strong roamer/duelist option for EoD for my class. Warrior by all means is no bad at dealing dmg, but I rly think that bruiser roles suit it more than roaming or dueling. 

 

[RedAvenged.5217]

55 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Ah OK that clarifies things a bit. 

 

I remember that Shiro Herald was considered a good roamer. But is it an example of a bad duelist? Cause of a hit and run game play. I haven't used Rev a lot though in pvp to be 100% sure. 

 

In any case, I'll be glad with a strong roamer/duelist option for EoD for my class. Warrior by all means is no bad at dealing dmg, but I rly think that bruiser roles suit it more than roaming or dueling. 

 

Power herald is a roamer that generally more 1v1 potential and team fight potential than thief. I guess how good it is depends on the meta though.

 

a lot of people are playing renegade and core rev instead of herald, tbh.

[Dahkeus.8243]

Vallun has some pretty good vids talking about roles:

 

(Trigger warning: Vallun doesn't always use strictly meta builds)

 

 

 

 

 

 

And there's a pretty good write-up on GodsOfPvP.Net: https://www.godsofpvp.net/guides/getting-started/roles-r30/

 

There's definitely overlap of roles, but one thing I would say is that a duelist will be more of a defensive player in most situations than a heavy DPS-oriented one, so a shiro herald doesn't make a good duelist.  Shiro herald does much better in team fights and +1s because of their heavy burst and mobility.  They have some good defensive tools, but generally won't be able to capitalize those strengths against a good duelist.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Dahkeus.8243

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Roles are more or less an approximate classification system. Really, none of these roles "tangibly" exist...they are abstraction used to help our brains consolidate complicated information in shorter periods of time.

 

So a Guardian that is running a healing build...can also be a decap roamer...If they've brought skills that are able to accomplish that task. When you think about their access to those kinds of skills, compared to other classes, then you can develop a sort of relative classification system where one says that "Thief is a better roamer then guardian" because thieves have more access to skills that allow them to roam around.

 

The key term is that they are relative classifications, and once you follow this line of thinking you can say...play a Reaper as you would a thief...give it a bunch of mobility skills if they have access to them and now a reaper is capable of roaming. How "good" of a roamer it is compared to a thief is defined then, as a relative comparison between a number of arbitrary metrics...like speed...damage...so on and so forth. 

 

In this way you can really make any build you want, and whatever skills you have access to... can be retrofitted into a classification for a role that it can accomplish. In the end it's all about whether a build can actually achieve a goal or not...and that goal achievement is relative to whether others can achieve those goals too in the same environment. 

[Seb De Tyra.3421]

You forgot about the most common role in most games : 

 

Feeders: this role constantly runs into  mid 1v3 expecting to win and dies over and over. They then rage in /t about scourges or thieves and go afk for the rest of the game.