Compensation: Excess Legendary Armor (Non-Duplicates)

[Morghulis.5923]

Hello everybody,

 

I would like to bring some attention to a matter that probably does not affect a lot of people and most likely many will not care, but it is worth a try. I have talked about this with friends and also customer support, who eventually suggested I post here. What I want to talk about is "duplicate" legendary armor of the same weight acquired in different game modes.

 

Firstly, I will explain how the legendary armory handled those items, in case some people are not sure. I've read in other posts that some people were unsure whether you could even add e.g. a heavy raid helmet and a heavy PvP helmet to the armory or only one of the two. The latter is the case, both can be in the armory. As long as an item was not an exact duplicate it was added to the legendary armory as soon as you logged in on the character holding the item. In my case that was a full legendary heavy raid set and a full legendary heavy set from WvW.

 

Why is this a problem in my eyes? If a person already had the legendary raid set, the decision to craft a secondary set of the same weight was in every single case made for the functionality and that alone. It does not matter if a person would craft a second raid set or if the second set would be from PvP/WvW. Neither would give you a new skin to wear or add progress to any kind of achievement. "But there are skins in WvW/PvP." Yes that is true, but those are not legendary skins. And I am not saying that because they do not look the part. I actually quite like the sets. I am saying that because those skins are unlocked by acquiring the "precursor", which in the case of PvP/WvW armor is just any ascended piece acquired at the vendor. Visually you can not tell if a person wearing the set is wearing ascended or legendary armor. Upgrading the ascended set to legendary quality is a decision based on the functionality upgrade, there is no cosmetic aspect to it.

 

So why does the legendary armory treat these two cases differently? There are a couple points that repeatedly came up when I talked about it with people and they do make sense, but in my opinion that is because they are looking at the matter from the wrong perspective.

 

"The limit in the legendary armory is based on unique items not on item type." Yes, very true. But I ask, why is there even a limit for armor? Why can you only add a single legendary heavy raid helmet to your armory? The answer is quite obvious as most people would agree. There simply is no reason to have more than one, there is no extra functionality, no benefit to it. So how is this different from having an extra legendary heavy WvW helmet in there too? It also adds no functionality, no benefit.

 

Next I will quote the customer support employee I was talking to: "These two armor sets were, at the time, acquired needfully and functioned as intended. Guild Wars 2 is a dynamic game which experiences frequent changes to its mechanics. " I agree with this statement, it also is not untrue. But can you not say the same about two identical legendary sets acquired from raiding? The only difference is that ArenaNet chose to place the limit on identical duplicates.

 

Others have also brought up the case of having multiple legendary back items from the different game modes to compare it to the armor situation. And I am convinced that you cannot compare the two eventhough they do seem like very similar situations. Personally I do own all three back items and while I can only wear one of them at a time I in no way feel like there should be any kind of replacement because there is also a cosmetic factor to it. You do get a new back skin and a glider skin for each individually, the multiple back items in the armory are not 100% useless.

 

"WvW/PvP armor is easier to obtain than raid armor so you should not be compensated for your WvW/PvP the same way as if your duplicate was from raids." Maybe, and that is something that can be discussed but for now they are actually being treated the same way. A player with two identical WvW/PvP armor sets did get compensated.

 

"You did not lose anything, your item is in the armory. A person with duplicates actually lost the items. Why should you be compensated?" I feel like at this point if you are still reading this you can probably guess the answer. Why did the other person lose their items? Because they would have had no use. And for a person with now 2 sets in the armory the functional value was lost. And that was the only value the item had in the first place. The full price was paid and the functional value was removed by it being added into the armory.

 

Some people tried to compare the situation to the Eternity matter, and I do agree it is strange that there are now 3 greatsword in your armory when you can only use two at a given time but that was a special case that ArenaNet has said to have thought about and decided to go with this solution. I don't feel the same way about the armor situation, it feels like an oversight.

 

I could keep going but this is already a lot longer than I wanted it to be and I believe I got my perspective and thoughts across. I hope to dicuss this with you guys and hear about any new insights. The best case would obviously be ArenaNet chiming in and sharing their point of view on the matter, tell us if they had considered this and why they went with the decision to not compensate for now useless legendary items. Either way, thank you so much for reading!

 

[Infusion.7149]

exact same situation as this thread:

IMO there needs to be a skin added to WVW/PVP legendary armor similar to what is the situation with Ascension , Warbringer , Ad Infinitum.

[Metaljaw.6437]

You got compensation. You can use legendary armor on every character using that weight class. It's basically a free set for every character that can use it beyond the ones you already geared. You just didn't get excess compensation for having multiples. Sorry. I don't feel for you considering I don't even have a legendary trinket yet.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Metaljaw.6437

[Morghulis.5923]

 

16 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

exact same situation as this thread:

IMO there needs to be a skin added to WVW/PVP legendary armor similar to what is the situation with Ascension , Warbringer , Ad Infinitum.

I see, thank you for showing me. The search functioned did not bring it up, guess I used the wrong terms. Seems like that topic died down with no conclusion. The replies are similar to what I encountered discussing it. Seems like an unfortunate situation that is too niche and requires some effort to understand/emphasize with. The issue with people having everything  already that is offered in the compensation chests is easier to empathise with, very straight forward and will probably get a solution soon. Not too hopeful about the armor after reading that topic.

[Morghulis.5923]

2 minutes ago, Metaljaw.6437 said:

You got compensation. You can use legendary armor on every character using that weight class. It's basically a free set for every character that can use it beyond the ones you already geared. You just didn't get excess compensation for having multiples.

Not sure if you read the whole thing but I will asume you did. I would not call that compensation, it is just the functionality of the legendary armory. What I was trying to say and maybe failed to so is that a person with 2 raid sets and a person with a raid set and a WvW set would now be in the exact same situation had ArenaNet not implemented the limit. And the limit makes a lot of sense because it protects players from literally useless legendaries. And it appears they missed the scenario I described.

[Metaljaw.6437]

Can you gear up more toons than you originally could with your legendary armor?

[Morghulis.5923]

1 minute ago, Metaljaw.6437 said:

Can you gear up more toons than you originally could with your legendary armor?

I can because of the legendary armory, not because I had 2 sets that now have as much functionality as one would have. But so can a person that did get compensation for an excess armor set. We both paid the full price for our sets, yet only one of us got compensation.

 

"Sorry. I don't feel for you considering I don't even have a legendary trinket yet. " This edited part ofyour previous post is hard to understand for me though. I hope you are able to emphasize with people that are in situations that do not resemble your own.

[Metaljaw.6437]

You basically received enough legendary armor set to gear up all your other toons for free, but you are saying you were not compensated.  My point is that you were compensated, just not to the extent you want, because you received more value from your legendary armor than you previously had (all of it included). You just want more. That is hard to sympathize with as a player that is now being forced to make legendary armor to compete with your all's ability to min/max for different content.

[Morghulis.5923]

2 minutes ago, Metaljaw.6437 said:

You basically received enough legendary armor set to gear up all your other toons for free, but you are saying you were not compensated.  My point is that you were compensated, just not to the extent you want, because you received more value from your legendary armor than you previously had (all of it included). You just want more. That is hard to sympathize with as a player that is now being forced to make legendary armor to compete with your all's ability to min/max for different content.

Compensation in the context of legendary armory and duplicate legendary items means something very specific and something entirely different from what you are trying to make it. I see your point though, we do not have to agree.

[Metaljaw.6437]

I get the point that you put in a lot of extra time and effort into making duplicate sets of armor. There have been a lot of people complaining about this. I'm trying to get you all to see that you are better off than you were before, even if you aren't getting all that you want. Plus, the armory has basically made legendary a requirement for everyone, so now people that were getting by with ascended and exotic items are having to grind out content they didn't want to or don't like (for me WvW). Overall, I think you are in a better situation. Just my 2 cents. Like you said, we don't have to agree.

[Morghulis.5923]

Just now, Metaljaw.6437 said:

I get the point that you put in a lot of extra time and effort into making duplicate sets of armor. There have been a lot of people complaining about this. I'm trying to get you all to see that you are better off than you were before, even if you aren't getting all that you want. Plus, the armory has basically made legendary a requirement for everyone, so now people that were getting by with ascended and exotic items are having to grind out content they didn't want to or don't like (for me WvW). Overall, I think you are in a better situation. Just my 2 cents. Like you said, we don't have to agree.

I completely agree with you, don't get me wrong. I am happy that not only my Warrior and my Guardian can use legendary armor now but also my Revenant. It's great and I really appreciate ArenaNet creating this and making it completely free for everyone to use with no monetization whatsoever. My point as I have mentioned is that the inconsistency between the scenarios I described might be an oversight. ArenaNet did after all decide to compensate people for their crafted armors in a very specific way, it is a thought out system.

[cgMatt.5162]

I don't understand why they decided to do it this way. Those are ascended skins too, nothing unique about them to warrant wasting a slot in the armory twice. 

 

For PvP and WvW they should just upgrade the skin in that legendary slot to T3 because even if you didn't craft them into legendaries you would still have the same skin.

[Morghulis.5923]

14 minutes ago, cgMatt.5162 said:

I don't understand why they decided to do it this way. Those are ascended skins too, nothing unique about them to warrant wasting a slot in the armory twice. 

 

For PvP and WvW they should just upgrade the skin in that legendary slot to T3 because even if you didn't craft them into legendaries you would still have the same skin.

The armory was a huge project and there were tons of things to consider, I'm not suprised it's not perfect in every aspect but I do wish they listen to the community's concerns and try to communicate those topics if that makes sense. I have seen many valid complaints about different aspects of the armory that do not even affect me and not everything has to be fixed a week after the implementation either. Just a little peek in these threads and a comment like "we hear you and are looking into it" would absolutely make my and many others' day/week/month/year.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Metaljaw.6437 said:

I get the point that you put in a lot of extra time and effort into making duplicate sets of armor. There have been a lot of people complaining about this. I'm trying to get you all to see that you are better off than you were before, even if you aren't getting all that you want. Plus, the armory has basically made legendary a requirement for everyone, so now people that were getting by with ascended and exotic items are having to grind out content they didn't want to or don't like (for me WvW). Overall, I think you are in a better situation. Just my 2 cents. Like you said, we don't have to agree.

Legendary armor is in no way more required now then before the armory.

 

You can keep useing ascended/exotic.

[Morghulis.5923]

Many people are trying to argue that the armory brings so much QoL that any kind of critizism is invalid. It is a strange stance especially since there already is a system for compensation in place, just that some very tiny parts of the playerbase might have been overlooked. After seeing that people are even trying to argue against compensating players for excess legendary runes/sigils I lost a bit of hope for support from outside the affected part of the playerbase.

[Traubensaft Joe.8192]

Most of the ppl just dont want to care. They assume that everyone with multiple legendarys is just a richkid with 10k+ gold in the bank.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Traubensaft Joe.8192

[Morghulis.5923]

Not caring and trying your hardest to invalidate other people's concerns are seperate things though. I don't think what I'm asking for is unreasonable, it is a situation where nobody really knows if it is intentional or just overlooked (it's a very niche scenario after all) and only ArenaNet could give some insight into that.

[Baron Oakley.1539]

I'm in this situation, and I'm neither asking for nor expecting any sympathy on the forums. I'm also not particularly bothered by it, it's obviously not the end of the world.

That said though, I think there is an issue of fairness.

Player A makes two T2 wvw/pvp legendary set of the same class - they would receive compensation for the duplicate set.

Player B makes makes a T3 and T2 wvw/pvp legendary set of the same class - they would not receive compensation for the duplicate set, even though the duplicate set does not unlock any new skins.

There's probably not many players in this situation, so I can understand that it would be missed - but it seems surprising that it would be a deliberate choice to not compensate.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Baron Oakley.1539

[Morghulis.5923]

31 minutes ago, Baron Oakley.1539 said:

I'm in this situation, and I'm neither asking for nor expecting any sympathy on the forums. I'm also not particularly bothered by it, it's obviously not the end of the world.

That said though, I think there is an issue of fairness.

Player A makes two T2 wvw/pvp legendary set of the same class - they would receive compensation for the duplicate set.

Player B makes makes a T3 and T2 wvw/pvp legendary set of the same class - they would not receive compensation for the duplicate set, even though the duplicate set does not unlock any new skins.

There's probably not many players in this situation, so I can understand that it would be missed - but it seems surprising that it would be a deliberate choice to not compensate.

That is interesting I did not know about the T3/T2 thing but looking at how the armory handles uniques it does make sense why it would do that. That reinforces my feeling that this is just an oversight.

 

Would you say your example is very different from mine though, and do you think both cases should be handled differently? In my opinion both qualify for compensation. The combination of your duplicate sets should not matter in my opinion, only the fact that there now is one extra set in your armory that serves no purpose whatsoever, neither functional nor cosmetic.

[Baron Oakley.1539]

1 hour ago, Morghulis.5923 said:

That is interesting I did not know about the T3/T2 thing but looking at how the armory handles uniques it does make sense why it would do that. That reinforces my feeling that this is just an oversight.

 

Would you say your example is very different from mine though, and do you think both cases should be handled differently? In my opinion both qualify for compensation. The combination of your duplicate sets should not matter in my opinion, only the fact that there now is one extra set in your armory that serves no purpose whatsoever, neither functional nor cosmetic.

I'm inclined to think that the situations are at least fundamentally similar - a player has paid the cost of an extra legendary set for which they have no further utility after armory, and which they would not have made had the armory existed at the time.

The issue here is of course only created by the fact that they PvP and WvW legendary armor sets have no unique skins like gen 1 and gen 2 weapons do; if they did then players would of course have made the sets to acquire the skins rather than just the functionality; and would probably continue to do so even post-Armory (Fashion Wars!).

[dbill.7483]

I'm also torn by the fact I now have a legendary backpack (Warbringer) sitting in my bank that I cannot equip anymore. Yes, I understand that I can now add a Warbringer to every one of my 19 characters, but it somehow just doesn't "feel" right to salvage this. I did pick a new legendary back skin and glider as compensation but it's gonna take me a while to  let this go.

 

I just need to keep reminding myself that I've traded 1 legendary backpack for 18 legendaries backpacks. 

 

Thank you ANET (I guess)

 

[Morghulis.5923]

12 hours ago, dbill.7483 said:

I'm also torn by the fact I now have a legendary backpack (Warbringer) sitting in my bank that I cannot equip anymore. Yes, I understand that I can now add a Warbringer to every one of my 19 characters, but it somehow just doesn't "feel" right to salvage this. I did pick a new legendary back skin and glider as compensation but it's gonna take me a while to  let this go.

 

I just need to keep reminding myself that I've traded 1 legendary backpack for 18 legendaries backpacks. 

 

Thank you ANET (I guess)

 

What are the choices you get from the backpack compensation box? Is it literally just one of the three legendary backpacks?

[dbill.7483]

12 minutes ago, Morghulis.5923 said:

What are the choices you get from the backpack compensation box? Is it literally just one of the three legendary backpacks?

 

For my Warbringer, I was given Ad Infinitum and The Ascension as the back pieces I could choose from. I also could have picked one of the Gen1 Legendary weapons but I already had all of those.

 

In hindsight it might have been a better choice to get a second axe, sword or pistol if I wanted to run a duel wield build but I still feel the back piece skins were a good choice since I'm not likely to start running that content to get those.

 

[Alice.4215]

I am the one who started the other thread.

 

The biggest issue at hand was not really compensation. Although it seemed unfair at first, the compensation other players got was not much either(they got to pick a second set of Legendary Armor).

 

Even among the 0.008%, it was unlikely that someone went out of their way to craft 2 sets of Legendary Raid Heavy Armor without owning a set for the other 2 armor weights as well. Therefore, most people who did get compensation got to choose a Legendary Armor from a different game mode instead.

You have 1 Legendary Raid Heavy Armor, and 1 Legendary WvW Heavy Armor(with Ascended T3 skin).

They have 2 Legendary Raid Heavy Armor, and get to pick between 1 Legendary WvW or PvP Heavy Armor(with Ascended T3 skin) instead.

You end up in the same place in the end, see? They end up with at most an Ascended T3 WvW/PvP skin too. 

 

At the end of the day, most of us who crafted more Legendary Armors than possible got screwed for having wasted a Legendary Armor's worth of mats on nothing(since WvW/PvP do not have unique skins), with or without compensation.

 

You could go case by case, but not many benefitted from the compensation. Those who somewhat benefitted were:

1) The ones who made 2 Conflux, as Conflux is not unique anymore, meaning they will get use out of both Conflux, yet they still got compensation. This is a clear Win, but they got at most 1 piece of Legendary other thing(unless they have more than 2 Conflux, which is unlikely).

2) The ones who had multiple same Legendary Armors but no Legendary Sigils/Runes. They got to pick a Legendary Sigil/Rune instead, which they could have crafted instead of a second set of same Armor. Not much of a Win either, but it is something.

3) The ones who had 2 WvW/PvP Legendary Armors of the same weight. They get to pick a Legendary Raid Armor(with Legendary skin) instead, without having to ever Raid. Could consider this a Win, but not really. They also end up in the same above mentioned place as you(with 1 Raid and 1 WvW/PvP Armor).

4) The ones who had say 2 sets of same Legendary Light Armor, but neither Medium/Heavy ones. They got to pick a different weight, but then they could have crafted that weight instead of 2 Light in the first place? Not a Win.

 

The biggest issue is Legendaries we will (not) craft in the future.

Consider that someone has Legendary Heavy Raid Armor. Going forward, post-Armory patch, they have 0 reasons to ever make Legendary Heavy WvW or PvP Armor(since they already have Legendary functionality) and the skin is just Ascended T3. So you just stop at Ascended T3 skin and transmute it for free onto your Legendary Heavy Raid Armor with the same results. This is not the same as having Warbringer and making Ad Infinitum, as even though you have Legendary Backpack functionality, crafting the other Backpack gets you a unique Legendary Backpack skin.

 

What would you advise a new player who wants Legendary Armor to do?

 

All new players who are aiming for Legendary Armor should strive for Legendary Raid Armor only, and then get only Ascended T3 WvW and PvP just for the skins, as this comes down cheapest for the same results. 

If they start by crafting the Legendary WvW/PvP Armor, then later start Raiding for the Legendary Raid Armor, they will also be paying an extra Legendary Armor worth of mats just like us, as the Legendary WvW/PvP Armor becomes redundant the moment they acquire the Raid one.

Unless you absolutely renounce to Raids for the rest of your GW2 future, dont craft the Legendary WvW/PvP Armor(or accept wasting a Legendary Armor worth of mats twice for the same results).

 

 

All in all, what we really need is unique Legendary skins for Legendary PvP and WvW Armors, just like every other Legendary counterparts out there(be it Bolt/ShiningBlade, Warbringer/AdInfinitum). Skins are half the reason why people make Legendaries, functionality being the other half. 

 

 

 

[Alice.4215]

21 hours ago, Traubensaft Joe.8192 said:

Most of the ppl just dont want to care. They assume that everyone with multiple legendarys is just a richkid with 10k+ gold in the bank.

 

It does not matter whether people are rich or poor, as long as they get the same results for the same/similar situation.

 

To be honest, I cared more about being treated fairly/equally in this situation than whatever amount of gold lost.

 

I guess after seeing what others got as compensation, this is mostly the case except for those who had 2 copies of Conflux.