SUGGESTION (shared map and subclass system)

[Rasimir.6239]

10 hours ago, kaleyl.7890 said:

A subclass as I pose it is ... you are a warrior and you become a necromancer subclass, and you raise that subclass.

Does that mean I need to level one necromancer to max to be able to use the full subclass on all my characters? Or would I have to grind each subclass on each of my characters separately? If the second, then a flat out "no" from me. More busywork to max out each character's skills/traits/combat abilities is something this game really does NOT need.

[Trejgon.9367]

meanwhile I am still waiting for OP to properly address the issue that his suggestion induces hard cap on amount of legendary weapons/trinkets player can craft within system OP proposes.

 

And I say "weapons/trinkets" because I have rechecked and legendary ring coalescence require gift of arid mastery, which by OP suggestion would obtainable only once, so it's either that ring or second weapon of gen2.

[Dante.1763]

12 hours ago, kaleyl.7890 said:

There are all kinds of players, there are those who enjoy leveling up different characters, there are those who like only PVP, there are those who like only PVE ... fortunately there is variety, you like to explore the entire map with each character you create, great, I only limit myself to reading and rereading to players in the forum and in the clans in which I am that we often comment on various things about the game.

The reality is that it will never rain to everyone's liking.

Yea, and im commenting to let you and anet know i think its a bad idea that takes away from the game.

 

Not to mention Lord Trejons point you havent even addressed, or the drops that players no longer get for map completion(free keys as one of em.). It takes way to much away from the game and adds to little.

[Tiamat.8254]

14 hours ago, kaleyl.7890 said:

I understand, but that could be changed and receive those keys in another way, for example include them to a greater degree in expansion maps.

What other way would you suggest? I imagine anet prefer us to spend real money on them or time in their game, hence the exploring. When I spend a lot of time in newer content I like to go back discovering with a new character. Always find new stuff or an event I never did. 

[Astralporing.1957]

On 8/2/2021 at 1:46 PM, Tiamat.8254 said:

I need map completion per character for black lion chest keys 😂

I think they have nerfed those heavily lately (at the same time they disabled getting map completion rewards for LS maps on below 80 characters). I have started again running a few of my new characters through core and LS maps recently, and it's really bad, to the level where it cannot be just explained with bad RNG. I'd say that the current chance on core maps is around  5% or lower. It seems to be a bit better on LS maps, but i sincerely doubt it is anywhere close to the 25% chance (or was it 33%?) from before.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm afraid I don't understand the whole 'sub-class' thing, and what 'passives' are. 

Is there some button you push, and suddenly you are a different Profession (on the same character)?  How does that work with armor?  What about the Profession 'F' skills, and weapon restrictions?  Is it only for L80 characters?  (I'd guess it would have to be, otherwise which Profession gets the XP?  Or is it split in half between the two, taking twice as long to level up?)  Is the '4th' Specialization restricted to Core Specializations only?  If not, how can one have two Elite Specialization?  Again, conflicts with the 'F' mechanics.

 

It's all very confusing to me. 

[kaleyl.7890]

On 8/4/2021 at 9:30 AM, Rasimir.6239 said:

Does that mean I need to level one necromancer to max to be able to use the full subclass on all my characters? Or would I have to grind each subclass on each of my characters separately? If the second, then a flat out "no" from me. More busywork to max out each character's skills/traits/combat abilities is something this game really does NOT need.

A subclass for each character.

Instead of uploading new characters, you make a subclass, it would be practically the same with the difference that you do it with a character that you already have raised to level 80, being able to change with that character to its main or subclass class whenever you want and play with them. The radical difference is that under the approach, making a subclass instead of another character would give you access to new improvements for your character's main class, taking for example a 4th special subclass specialization, instead of having 3, you could have 4 at once. (I insist it is just an example, as they could also be achievements that give certain improvements to the character).

I insist again, the purpose is to be able to have more variety in the characters. It seems to me personally that 2 elite +1 specialization bars that cannot be combined are too short for me to customize the characters.

[kaleyl.7890]

22 hours ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

What other way would you suggest? I imagine anet prefer us to spend real money on them or time in their game, hence the exploring. When I spend a lot of time in newer content I like to go back discovering with a new character. Always find new stuff or an event I never did. 

You can discover the rest of the map that you would not have done with a subclass.

Keep in mind that EOD now comes with more map, the map is already huge.

Right now I don't know how to solve it, but you can put an achievement to raise subclass, add to the black lion chest, achievements by completing champions that are scattered on the map making their hunting more interesting ...

[kaleyl.7890]

20 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I'm afraid I don't understand the whole 'sub-class' thing, and what 'passives' are. 

Is there some button you push, and suddenly you are a different Profession (on the same character)?  How does that work with armor?  What about the Profession 'F' skills, and weapon restrictions?  Is it only for L80 characters?  (I'd guess it would have to be, otherwise which Profession gets the XP?  Or is it split in half between the two, taking twice as long to level up?)  Is the '4th' Specialization restricted to Core Specializations only?  If not, how can one have two Elite Specialization?  Again, conflicts with the 'F' mechanics.

 

It's all very confusing to me. 

ok, the idea would be a bit like this:

When you reach level 80 with a character and optionally completing an achievement, with that same character you go to an npc where with karma you buy a subclass, you choose the one you want. If, for example, you are a warrior and you want a necromancer subclass, you choose it and at that moment your character becomes a level 1 necromancer.

The old equipment would be unequipped, and you would have the same equipment as with which you start a new character.

Later, in the cities in the same way that there is an NPC that repairs armor, there would be one that allows you to change whenever you want from your subclass to your main class (not to do it at any time or in combat). Basically the game automatically, like when you enter PVP the last character configuration is loaded, it would do the same here it loads the last character configuration. Being able to use new tabs for subclass equipment.

Then, if the improvement of the character were as we have given an example a 4th specialization, we would have in an npc where we could buy passives per tier. We know that in tier 1 each specialization only has 3 to choose from. Well, there would be a list of tier 1 passives and we could buy dream 3, tier 2 the same ... and so on until the subclass specialization bar is formed.

That your character lacks a bit of defense? (for example) you could choose from the list of passives of this new spec those that are more "defensive" or help to reduce damage, more life ... you want more damage ... well anyway.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, you want to be able to change your Profession, at will. 

I'm still not clear on what 'passives' are.  Do you mean traits?  Are you asking for traits from one Profession to be used on another Profession?

That sounds like a balancing nightmare. 

[Rasimir.6239]

1 hour ago, kaleyl.7890 said:

A subclass for each character.

Instead of uploading new characters, you make a subclass, it would be practically the same with the difference that you do it with a character that you already have raised to level 80, being able to change with that character to its main or subclass class whenever you want and play with them. The radical difference is that under the approach, making a subclass instead of another character would give you access to new improvements for your character's main class, taking for example a 4th special subclass specialization, instead of having 3, you could have 4 at once. (I insist it is just an example, as they could also be achievements that give certain improvements to the character).

I insist again, the purpose is to be able to have more variety in the characters. It seems to me personally that 2 elite +1 specialization bars that cannot be combined are too short for me to customize the characters.

Let's say I have a warrior and choose necromancer as my subclass. Once I have leveled my subclass to max, what happens if a balance update makes it so warrior with mesmer subclass is suddenly meta and warrior with necromancer subclass no longer brings anything to the table that is desired in group play? Can I switch my subclass, or do I have to start a whole new warrior to choose that playstyle because my original one is forever blocked from getting mesmer subclass?

[Tiamat.8254]

1 hour ago, kaleyl.7890 said:

You can discover the rest of the map that you would not have done with a subclass.

Keep in mind that EOD now comes with more map, the map is already huge.

Right now I don't know how to solve it, but you can put an achievement to raise subclass, add to the black lion chest, achievements by completing champions that are scattered on the map making their hunting more interesting ...

I like the thought process 🙂 However, there is still this issue. I like to explore places over and over again and I like the chance at reward for that. I don't spend time doing only new content as the game is so vast. Your idea is a good one, and could definitely supplement this.

[Trejgon.9367]

That subclass thing sounds like gw1 secondary profesion with extra steps. Which was not ported to GW2 becaue AN have found out the hard way how difficult it is to balance such mechanic.

 

and I am still waiting for OP to address the part of his idea for account shared map progression introducing hardcap on how many legendaries per account can be crafted.

[kaleyl.7890]

8 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

So, you want to be able to change your Profession, at will. 

I'm still not clear on what 'passives' are.  Do you mean traits?  Are you asking for traits from one Profession to be used on another Profession?

That sounds like a balancing nightmare. 

When I talk about passives, I mean, for example, here when you assign hero points to unlock a specialization, you can select a series of passive skills or traits in 6 tiers, 3 of which you must choose between 3 available, well that's for me. I mean as possible "passive".

No, I do not mean to use abilities or spells of other classes with your class, that is, if you are a warrior and make a necromancer subclass, when changing back to a warrior you could not invoke the necromancer's servants or the shroud.

[kaleyl.7890]

8 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Let's say I have a warrior and choose necromancer as my subclass. Once I have leveled my subclass to max, what happens if a balance update makes it so warrior with mesmer subclass is suddenly meta and warrior with necromancer subclass no longer brings anything to the table that is desired in group play? Can I switch my subclass, or do I have to start a whole new warrior to choose that playstyle because my original one is forever blocked from getting mesmer subclass?

ok, I'm going to explain how a game from the same ncsoft house, LINEAGE 2. had the subclass system. Because there are games that have a subclass system, or multiple classes or hybrids.

Lineage 2 to the following:

 

You raised your class to maximum level, (which was 75 at the time), you did a quest and you could go to an npc to choose a subclass of another race. This started at level 40 and was your character but at level 40 of that new class chosen to raise it to level 75, as if you were starting over but with your character, without making a new character.

 

When your subclass reached level 65, you could choose a passive ability for your main class, these were of the type + HP or + defense or more attack. At level 70 they gave you another list where you could choose 1 passive ability and at level 75 of your subclass they gave you 3 abilities that were special according to the subclass you had chosen. If you had chosen tank type subclass, at subclass level 75 you had 3 special abilities, one era increased your life a lot, another was a possibility that when taking damage you would jump a damage reduction buff for a short time and another era that reduced critical damage, then you pick 1 of those. If you chose a rogue or wizard type subclass, at max level you had very different special abilities.

 

Basically these passive skills gave you the option to further customize your character according to your tastes. And in that game you could create 2 or 3 subclasses with the same character to access different passive abilities.

 

In response to what you tell me, you could cancel a subclass, which would be eliminated and choose another if you wish.

And if they do class balance or readjustments or patches, it would not affect either because your subclass would receive the same readjustments or balances.

Edited August 5, 2021 by kaleyl.7890

[kaleyl.7890]

8 hours ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

I like the thought process 🙂 However, there is still this issue. I like to explore places over and over again and I like the chance at reward for that. I don't spend time doing only new content as the game is so vast. Your idea is a good one, and could definitely supplement this.

In that it would not affect the game at all, because the system that it has of events that appear on the maps makes it very replayable if you wish, even if you have already fully discovered and completed that map.

The approach does NOT affect at this point 😉

[kaleyl.7890]

8 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

That subclass thing sounds like gw1 secondary profesion with extra steps. Which was not ported to GW2 becaue AN have found out the hard way how difficult it is to balance such mechanic.

 

and I am still waiting for OP to address the part of his idea for account shared map progression introducing hardcap on how many legendaries per account can be crafted.

I didn't play GW1, I don't know how that system worked there.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, you wish the Devs to balance 9 * 4 * 9 * 4 Professions/sub-classes.

A balancing nightmare.

[Trejgon.9367]

10 hours ago, kaleyl.7890 said:

I didn't play GW1, I don't know how that system worked there.

 

Take out leveling of secondary classes away and from what I understood of your suggestion you would have basicaly 1 to 1 translation of the system onto GW2 classes.

 

And AN have proven incapable of keeping any semblance of balance with that.