Willbender is OP

[Heinel.6548]

1 minute ago, Zauber.4069 said:

Really? Is this your only argument? 

Yes. NO sarcasm. The points you presented works against your argument, no additional premises needed.

[Zauber.4069]

30 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

Yes. NO sarcasm. The points you presented works against your argument, no additional premises needed.

The point is that you didnt get at all what i just wrote (gerneral idea). I will help you with that. Even though eles and guards have the same hp you just forgott all about other stuff. Armor maybe? defence boons? Aegis? Stability? No? it does not metter? Is not that hard to know that ele is the most squishy class so than my question is -  How is that most defence focus class will have access to highest mobility and for instance most squishy class does not?

Edited August 16, 2021 by Zauber.4069

[Heinel.6548]

8 minutes ago, Zauber.4069 said:

The point is that you didnt get at all what i just wrote. Even though eles and guards have the same hp you just forgott all about other stuff. Armor maybe? defence boons? Aegis? Stability? No? it does not metter? How is that most defence focus class will have access to highest mobility and for instance most squishy ele does not?

Yeah, ignore the fact that ele heal skills have half the cooldown and heals more, and ele actually has a lot of defense skills.

 

Eles are in the same boat as guards in many regards actually. Both have pure glass cannon and the toughest bunker builds. It's just neither strategy work very well in the current Meta. Scourge nerf might see people reverting back to the two traditional bunker classes for that role, but I highly doubt it. Just the boon rip alone is meta redefining. Scourge just outclasses both on all fronts.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Heinel.6548

[Zauber.4069]

4 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

Yeah, ignore the fact that ele heal skills have half the cooldown and heals more, and ele actually has a lot of defense skills.

 

Eles are in the same boat as guards in many regards actually. Both have pure glass cannon and the toughest bunker builds. It's just neither strategy work very well in the current Meta. Scourge nerf might see people reverting back to the two traditional bunker classes for that role, but I highly doubt it. Scourge just outclasses both on all fronts.

I agree with you on that we have pure glass cannon working only in certain situations (actually pve only - fractal, raids). I am just dissapointed that ele can't be a mage from other mmos focusing on mobility, cc, dmg. Devs acctualy are doing great job by impelemting such a mobility but i think guards should not be theirs first choise. We are still waiting to see what other espec will bring but for now i am just not happy and i can undesrand why other proffesions can be mad at current state of the game.

[Heinel.6548]

1 minute ago, Zauber.4069 said:

I agree with you on that we have pure glass cannon working only in certain situations (actually pve only - fractal, raids). I am just dissapointed that ele can't be a mage from other mmos focusing on mobility, cc, dmg. Devs acctualy are doing great job by impelemting such a mobility but i think guards should not be theirs first choise. We are still waiting to see what other espec will bring but for now i am just not happy and i can undesrand why other proffesions can be mad at current state of the game.

You are definitely jumping the gun without seeing the new ele spec. Look if you want to get angry at a class, guardians are not your enemy. The play style may be different, but eles and guardians perform more or less the same roles, and in much the same ways. Scourges are the ones breaking all the rules and removing both classes from the meta. Go complain in their forum.

[Zauber.4069]

11 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

You are definitely jumping the gun without seeing the new ele spec. Look if you want to get angry at a class, guardians are not your enemy. The play style may be different, but eles and guardians perform more or less the same roles, and in much the same ways. Scourges are the ones breaking all the rules and removing both classes from the meta. Go complain in their forum.

I am not angry at class - I am angry at devs who poorly balance the game. It is true ele and guards fill simillar rules. However in t4 fractals and wvw no one is calling for ele. Go check right now LFG in t4. Almost all of them call for guards and necros. The same story is with thievs - I barely see them in fractals. Ppl should call for roles not for classes.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Zauber.4069

[Heinel.6548]

10 minutes ago, Zauber.4069 said:

I am not angry at class - I am angry at devs who poorly balance the game. It is true ele and guards fill simillar rules. However in t4 fructals and wvw now one is calling for ele. Go check right now LFG in t4. Almost all othe them call for guards and scourage. The same story is with thievs - I barely see them in fractals.

If you are PvE focused, the reason ele's aren't wanted in pug groups isn't because the class is inferior. They still pull the highest number. They are unwanted because they have one of the more complicated rotation on a class with the smallest margin of error. People are controlling risk, not saying no to the biggest dps.

 

I think there is a silverlining though, since the dev did specifically mention ele is perhaps too squishy and punishing to be viable for the general playerbase (in a humorous way so I'm speculating here) but I suspect the new ele spec should likely sacrifice a bit of numbers in exchange for better survivability than perhaps the weaver's reputed "actual" output.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Heinel.6548

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Zauber.4069]

2 minutes ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Yes they should but the next e-spec should bring another role so they should rejoice instead of being jealous.

We dont know what they will get but seeing last 2 expansions i would not be so excited. In pvp they are only good at +1/ dicap and DPS in other game modes/ but what class is not good at dps.

 

9 minutes ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Play GS (or Sword) + Bull Charge and come back telling me you are not fast.

But know you will be even faster. Imagin that.

 

9 minutes ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Ele has the most re sustain out of every class in this game. That's how the class was designed.

Since the beginning class had to use cele gear in other to survive because of lack on any defences. True ele got heal but if i use let say Marauder gear trying to play glass cannon this heal is just a joke making ele just dps without any defence mechanism - it does not scall well like for instance aegis. Ele would benefit more from mobility that guard. I am not saying they should not get any mobility i am just saying they should not get access to such a mobility when other classes they should have it already.

18 minutes ago, Acyk.9671 said:

You just don't understand the game you are playing. Guards must focus on one thing to be really efficient. The only exception was Firebrand because their boon support design on top of core provided almost everything.

So i guess we are playing different game 😉 I am not saying guards should be good at one thing (they are very good at a lot of things already) I just trying to show why other professions are mad and that dev balances games poorly. 

 

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

2 hours ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Quote

 

Ele has the most re sustain out of every class in this game. That's how the class was designed.

 

"The most" !?

Yes you have many options and you can stack many effects for damage mitigation (Grinding stone + barriers + earth lane + weaveself, or rock barrier on scepter, or conjured earth, arcane shield, mist form, obsidien flesh, I forget some) and heal and cleanse but these are active skills and traits, actives defense; you actually need to build for it and play for it, like for real : traits, skills, gear with toughness/vitality/healing power, spam evades, spam AA and it's not infinite either...

While many classes have strong panic buttons in their design (like ... guard), skills with better effects/sustain on themself or passive sustain, and armor/vitality; with low sacrifice.

 

There is a reason we don't see elem in pvp, and not a lot in pve group content.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Heinel.6548]

10 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

"The most" !?

Yes you have many options and you can stack many effects for damage mitigation (Grinding stone + barriers + earth lane + weaveself, or rock barrier on scepter, or conjured earth, arcane shield, mist form, obsidien flesh, I forget some) and heal and cleanse but these are active skills and traits, actives defense; you actually need to build for it and play for it, like for real : traits, skills, gear with toughness/vitality/healing power, spam evades, spam AA and it's not infinite either...

While many classes have strong panic buttons in their design (like ... guard), skills with better effects/sustain on themself and armor/vitality; with low sacrifice.

 

There is a reason we don't see elem in pvp, and not a lot in pve group content.

 

 

High risk high reward has since the beginning been the ele's way. If you can't take the risk, reroll. And yes, other people rejecting you in pugs is part of the risks you as an ele is taking.

[Zauber.4069]

30 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

High risk high reward has since the beginning been the ele's way. If you can't take the risk, reroll. And yes, other people rejecting you in pugs is part of the risks you as an ele is taking.

They are better classes with high risk - high reward playstyle - Even rangers have their crazy immobilize abilities. Ele is just not in that category of a gameplay. They just have too much risk for no benefits. You can call ele best dps - but no one want it. Sorry but you are just wrong.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Zauber.4069

[Heinel.6548]

Just now, Zauber.4069 said:

They are better classes with high risk - high reward playstyle - Even rangers have their crazy immobilize abilities. Ele is just not in that category of a gameplay. They just have too much risk for no benefits. You can call ele best dps - but now one want it. Sorry but you are just wrong.

What kind of copium is this.

 

I mean you even stated you aren't even using full zerker gear and is still having trouble surviving, and you think you deserve a spot? 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1 minute ago, Heinel.6548 said:

High risk high reward has since the beginning been the ele's way. If you can't take the risk, reroll. And yes, other people rejecting you in pugs is part of the risks you as an ele is taking.

 

But there is no reward anymore.

People are stuck, idk, before february 2020 patch, or worst at the realease of PoF to think you actually rewarded to play some high learning curve, high skill ceiling, classes. But no.

 

 

 

 

[Heinel.6548]

5 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

But there is no reward anymore.

People are stuck, idk, before february 2020 patch, or worst at the realease of PoF to think you actually rewarded to play some high learning curve, high skill ceiling, classes. But no.

 

 

 

 

Again, the dev did acknowledge this in a "manner" of speaking in the livestream. So it is likely that going forward ele may be neutralized to be less high risk and high reward. We already see the first steps in this with extra barrier on weavers next week. Apparently bad players are the dev's job to fix. Who would have thought.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Heinel.6548

[Zauber.4069]

1 minute ago, Heinel.6548 said:

What kind of copium is this.

 

I mean you even stated you aren't even using full zerker gear and is still having trouble surviving, and you think you deserve a spot? 

I dont play pve end game as a dps on my ele. I play support - dont care about meta but i can easily say our dps is nothing special for a risk we need to take in pve game modes. For that reason we are not in pve end game. In pvp if you play glass cannon ele - you are just masochist. High risk no reward - just dead class. I mentioned even ranger mechanism to prove that even other classes have something. 

[Zauber.4069]

10 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

But there is no reward anymore.

People are stuck, idk, before february 2020 patch, or worst at the realease of PoF to think you actually rewarded to play some high learning curve, high skill ceiling, classes. But no.

It is so true. It took me moths to be good at weaver. I dont feel so rewarded for that.

[Roads.5130]

4 hours ago, Zauber.4069 said:

Do you know what makes me mad about WB? That Guardians are going to get mechanism they don’t deserve in this state of the game. How is that guardian, heavy class that focus on defences, is getting access to such a mobility making them one of the most mobile class. No wonder warriors, thieves and eles are mad. You have to understand it.

Do you understand that warriors are heavy class, too right?

 

4 hours ago, Zauber.4069 said:

Thieves actually... should be mad that they are being good at one role only.

And this is Guardian's problem because?

 

4 hours ago, Zauber.4069 said:

Warriors are all about dashes and getting to enemy as fast as possible in every other mmo games. They should be the fastest heavy armor class in GW2 and since they don’t have access to any magic they are limited with possibilities to expend on. Speed should be there thing.

What's funny is that arguably Warrior is the slowest heavy class already, behind both Rev and Guard. That means it is a Warrior's problem, not a Guardian's problem.

4 hours ago, Zauber.4069 said:

Ele has least amount of health and armor which also doesn’t have any defence mechanism (not stealth, not shroud, no clones, no access to aeigis and weak access to stability – nothing) making them most squishy class there is in gw2, isn’t fitting glass cannon, mobile, cc roles in pvp and wvw mode. Isn't it what squishy mage class suposed to be good at?

Does not have any defense mechanism? Weaver has constant access to barrier and evades from traits and skills, has many leaps, a couple of blinks, some dashes, at least one skill that makes them invulnerable (but i think more than one) and at least one skill that makes them untargetable. 

4 hours ago, Zauber.4069 said:

You are guys spoiled by devs.

You are just salty you like what you saw in Willbender's preview without having even seen the remaining 66% of the E-Specs.

[Exile.8160]

3 hours ago, Zauber.4069 said:

I dont play pve end game as a dps on my ele. I play support - dont care about meta but i can easily say our dps is nothing special for a risk we need to take in pve game modes. For that reason we are not in pve end game. In pvp if you play glass cannon ele - you are just masochist. High risk no reward - just dead class. I mentioned even ranger mechanism to prove that even other classes have something. 

Yo this is a willbender post, go talk about ele in the ele forums.

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Exile.8160 said:

Yo this is a willbender post, go talk about ele in the ele forums.

"You can't call the e-spec OP in the profession's subforum because to do that you need to compare it to other professions' e-specs, and you can't do that, you can't talk about other professions in this subforum, go there to talk about them, but do so only in vacuum."
This is what you sound like. Do better.

[Exile.8160]

4 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"You can't call the e-spec OP in the profession's subforum because to do that you need to compare it to other professions' e-specs, and you can't do that, you can't talk about other professions in this subforum, go there to talk about them, but do so only in vacuum."
This is what you sound like. Do better.

 

1. Those are your words not mine.

2. He only spoke about ele and not in a comparison way to the willbender (maybe read first before sound like an kitten)

3. The post was clearly derailed into an ele only topic and from what I last seen this is the guard section. 

 

 

[The Boz.2038]

Outside of literally quoting you and just leaving my post otherwise blank, there is no way to avoid the "these are your words not mine" comment so... Yeah. Good job.

Do better.

[Exile.8160]

4 hours ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Since when guard are only defensive when half the traits are offensive ???

Yes they should but the next e-spec should bring another role so they should rejoice instead of being jealous.

Play GS (or Sword) + Bull Charge and come back telling me you are not fast.

Ele has the most re sustain out of every class in this game. That's how the class was designed.

You just don't understand the game you are playing. Guards must focus on one thing to be really efficient. The only exception was Firebrand because their boon support design on top of core provided almost everything.

I would say if combine with meditation skills and trait it will make the willbender to be more brawler than glass cannon. Hard to say tho.

[Zauber.4069]

5 minutes ago, Exile.8160 said:

I would say if combine with meditation skills and trait it will make the willbender to be more brawler than glass cannon. Hard to say tho.

And I think that a brawler should not be allowed to possess such a mobility. It should be mechanism for glass cannon profesion or maybe for some cc oriented. Good that you brought that up.

[Exile.8160]

4 minutes ago, Zauber.4069 said:

And I think that a brawler should not be allowed to possess such a mobility. It should be mechanism for glass cannon profesion or maybe for some cc oriented. Good that you brought that up.

 

The sustaine may be good for brawls vs another brawler but he will still have 11k health sadly a spike from a thief mes or rev will still delete him if he is not carfull.