ahahahahahahahahaha reflected

[Alpha.1308]

4 minutes ago, Hackuuna.4085 said:

Limiting reflects to 5 to 10 projectiles would only be fair considering the same target limit placed on the projectiles themselves.

yes and no

i'm still conflicted about this

projectiles are still pretty insane 

i'd like to see it so see how it works?

but i can see it going very wrong very fast 

 

but yea the whole shatters being projectiles thing really needs to go

you can already do the stupid A/D strafe spam to make them miss, can't you?

i know you can do that with EVERY SINGLE auto attack on elementalist staff, and guardian autos because this games projectile tracking is absolute garbage

it's fine for autos (kinda but also not really) but your entire class mechanic?

like it's disgusting 

 

that and dagger 3 shouldn't be projectile, either

i can't believe you can just reflect the entire freaking thing 

1 and 2 being projectiles is whatever, those are fine

Edited August 18, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

30 minutes ago, Alpha.1308 said:

you can already do the stupid A/D strafe spam to make them miss, can't you?

You can strafe to evade the shatters?

Holy Kitten! It's even worse than what I though it was.
 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735
typo

[Roda.7468]

32 minutes ago, Alpha.1308 said:

projectiles are still pretty insane 

I mean.. are they insane? 

 

Like aside from combo stuff (which makes their positioning/movement easier to predict) what sets them above anything else?  If you're paying attention to your terrain and not tunneling your target, you can use LoS to you advantage.  The fact that they have to physically move through the air to get to their target means that you get ample time to time and initiate a reaction the more distance they have (and like was state, could be negated with enough distance and a little wiggle).  Like, maybe it's because they aren't used much due to how easy they are to deny, I'm not really seeing this "crazy effective" projectile thing that people keep saying.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

1 hour ago, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

But doesn't that essentially results in the same thing as making Unblockable? And also if it is not a projectile, then would it cause Virtuoso attacks to bypass LOS and pass through obstructions and terrain?

 

Not at all, just look at greatsword 1 for mesmer or axe 1 for necro. Non-projectile type ranged attacks can still be blocked and LOS'd, they just don't interact with reflects and projectile destroy (i.e. things known as "projectile hate").

[Alpha.1308]

2 hours ago, Roda.7468 said:

Like aside from combo stuff (which makes their positioning/movement easier to predict) what sets them above anything else? 

someone spamming "confused" on everyone's posts, it's not me who did it to you, btw, it just looks kinda petty if it's someone not even actually responding, honestly, so fyi not meeee

 

i'm fine with discussions even if people disagree, but at least explain yourself

 

but, yea

so, there's a big difference between max damage at max range, and less effective damage from max range

something like rangers and deadeyes are at their maximum efficiency at a range other classes can't even touch

 

it's not about them being "crazy effective" on their own, it's what range actually means (at least, when you have it) 

 

if you let something free cast on you, while they're safe and don't even have to dodge roll to lower their output, it's a LOT of damage

 

(look at it as if it were homogenized; total effective 100dps melee vs total effective100dps range

the range doesn't have to actually do anything but deal damage, while melee is dodging/being cc'd/etc, meaning melee will dip out of their total, and range pulls ahead, typical things that lower melee that stop range as well like blinds will still even out to no net change, where as reflect/terrain drops all projectiles to absolute 0, and melee and ground target effects/ranged non projectiles just simply do not have anything similar) 

 

you have 2 people free casting on you, it's more 

 

yet if you have 2 people in melee hitting you, you're also at least at maximum efficiency, and can fight back, CCing them and forcing dodges/inactive damage 

 

my initial statement was for wvw/gvgs/etc and larger group scenarios, something like 10v10 or 20v20, if there were no projectile reflects/destructs, a bunch of rangers/deadeyes/even virtuoso would honestly pump out w.o.r.k.

but, they can't, because they aren't able to do anything there

 

but i suppose in spvp, with so much LoS and smaller areas, it's a different situation 

but realistically, can anything tank ranger/deadeye pewpew for very long without physically pushing back?

at least in a closer range scenario, your enemy needs to be using CCs and dodge rolling, and they're also getting CC'd, which is just going to lower their actual damage output 

 

so, that's what i mean, range gives you a massive advantage

until, yea, you take it away, then it's purely useless, like from LoS and reflects/destructs, which is the whole point i'm trying  to make

they're strong, until they aren't

and that's completely different than any other type of damage in the game, like cleave, ground targets, etc, because they don't just get removed from terrain or a skill (yes, blind/aegis/etc, but projectiles can be, too, meaning they wouldn't count, and those are also single-use, where as reflects/destructs are not at all, and even have infinite cap, which again, my point about 40 people  can be denied by a single button for an infinite period of time because it can't be stripped/removed, it'd be like if there were an uncapped target limit aoe field that removed everyone's melee weapons inside of it?? like, how awful would that be, even in spvp, drop that on a point and melee classes just sit there and stare at you and it cannot be removed at all from the ground)  

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Roda.7468]

4 hours ago, Alpha.1308 said:

if you let something free cast on you, while they're safe and don't even have to dodge roll to lower their output, it's a LOT of damage

 

you have 2 people free casting on you, it's more 

 

yet if you have 2 people in melee hitting you, you're also at least at maximum efficiency, and can fight back, CCing them and forcing dodges/inactive damage 

I mean for the first point, it's the same deal as if you let yourself get backstabbed or letting someone spam non-projectile ranged attacks on you.  Don't let people hit you unpunished.  Same with allowing yourself to be sandwiched at any range.  Don't do that lmao.  And I don't really care about dropping damage for utilities, because everyone has to do that, or at least they should have to do that. I don't want pvp where it's me vs my opponent using eachother as a dps golem.

 

The thing is, you should be using different skills (not abilities, but problem-solving skills) when facing off against ranged characters than the ones you use when facing melee characters is.  Like, it's not as simple as "letting ranged hit you vs letting melee hit you" because in either situation you shouldn't be doing that lol, but how you stop it is different.

 

(ok reading back over this I'mma tl;dr it, dw)

Like, in the games I've played that allow for balanced ranged vs melee battles, same range vs same range were about who can hit their defensives, set up their bursts and maintain their pressures the goodest. Basic stuff we should all be familiar with.  But melee vs ranged fights were about forcing their opponent to go on the run, corralling them to an unadvantageous position, and pinning them down.  While the ranged vs melee were about getting the hell out of there while trying not to get tricked into a bad position and delaying the arrival of the melee as much as possible.   Ultimately both ends rely on how good you can feint/distract and get your opponent to commit to a bad move, but how you get them to do that is different. (Do note that those these were games where melees were more bursty in pvp, and ranged classes were more about pressure. (though one range class was bursty, but it was very squishy and all or nothing with its burst which made it super predictable and thus relatively easy to punish if you can piece together their exit strategy. And while murder was good and fun and entirely encouraged in games, it wasn't the only "win-state" in an encounter with an enemy player, at least in my opinion.  If I could scare off someone from an objective and make them have to regroup, then I won that bout.)

 And for large scale, you just kind of scale up those solutions.  Have some beefy sappers flank through to the backline to frazzle the ranged and make them lose focus, thus removing the pressure defending the frontline, making the group more vulnerable to the more aggressive units.  Like my favorite role in large scale fights isn't someone who can mow down a lot of people.  My favorite role is to be the MF who jumps in and just becomes an absolute pest. (it's why I was attracted to mesmer lmao). 

 

tl;dr: Ideally the end result of a fight between two characters with different ideal ranges is both characters players doing a kind of tug-of-war on the battlefield, forcing the other to waste resources on incorrect reads instead of just forcing their opponent to not play.  If ranged is too powerful for melees to handle, then provide melees with more mobility and control options.  If melees are too oppressive for ranged then give ranged more control options and tools to make distance.  There is an equilibrium, even in games with limited toolsets like gw2. (you just need to double up a bit more when it comes to what skills do.)

 

 

And lol I figured it wasn't you who was spamming confused faces, you strike me more as a person who wants an actual discussion and not just to barf feelings onto a forum. (Which, I also see the value in, lmao. I enjoy doing it in my own way as well lol. Just, not in anything as nonconstructive as confused-face spam)

Edited August 18, 2021 by Roda.7468

[Alpha.1308]

39 minutes ago, Roda.7468 said:

Don't let people hit you unpunished. 

no, again, so, that's not the point of value in ranged engages   

 

there's literally no equivalent to a reflect/destruct bubble for cleave damage or ground target damage

 

the value you get out of putting a bubble up is incomparable to projectile damage to anything else in the game

 

condi damage is the only thing that comes close, in the form of cleanses, and it's the same thing for them in wvw, they're strong, sure, until they aren't, in which case they're useless

 

it's not like how raw cleave damage/ground targets functions in this game at all, because they're simply unstoppable

(to an extent, again, blind/aegis/blocks, but that's beside the point as those can affect condi/projectiles, too, and they aren't uncapped like reflects) 

 

it's not as simple as "hAhhA juSt PuNISh TheM WinKY FaCe" when everyone just vomits out all of the bubbles and cleansing in this game, specifically in wvw, in a 10+ scenario, they're just accidental side effects to existing, and there's nothing anywhere close to it for power/ground target abilities  

 

you're not just "punishing" people for using projectiles, you're deleting them 

 

 

there IS no push and pull, they are simply worthless 

 

again, i dunno how it works in spvp, i was only interested in gvg type fights where there's over 10-20 people, or outnumbered groups of 10 hitting 20-30

 

but i'm like 80% sure that in spvp, if you have 1 deadeye pewpewing in a 2v2 with 1 melee on point fighting 2 melees on point, the deadeye will offer MUCH more value than any individual of 2v2 melees fighting on point 

 

until you throw a bubble onto the point 

 

now the deadeye is getting 0 value, where absolutely nothing would drop a melee characters value to absolute 0

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Roda.7468]

11 minutes ago, Alpha.1308 said:

no, again, so, that's not the point of value in ranged engages   

 

there's literally no equivalent to a reflect/destruct bubble for cleave damage or ground target damage

 

the value you get out of putting a bubble up is incomparable to projectile damage to anything else in the game

 

condi damage is the only thing that comes close, in the form of cleanses, and it's the same thing for them in wvw, they're strong, sure, until they aren't, in which case they're useless

 

it's not like how raw cleave damage/ground targets functions in this game at all, because they're simply unstoppable

(to an extent, again, blind/aegis/blocks, but that's beside the point as those can affect condi/projectiles, too, and they aren't uncapped like reflects) 

 

it's not as simple as "hAhhA juSt PuNISh TheM WinKY FaCe" when everyone just vomits out all of the bubbles and cleansing in this game, specifically in wvw, in a 10+ scenario, they're just accidental side effects to existing, and there's nothing anywhere close to it for power/ground target abilities  

 

you're not just "punishing" people for using projectiles, you're deleting them

Lol I think you're missing my point or misreading me.  I'm agreeing with you on the point that bubbles as they work now aren't an engaging mechanic to use and fight against lol. My confusion as to why people think projectiles, specifically, are so powerful is because, like you said, they are affected by the same defenses that cleaves and ground targets are neutered by, plus bubbles/destructs, plus the fact that their travel time means they have a longer tell than lasers, effect-on-target ranged abilities, (some)ground targets, and cleaves.  The only thing I can think that they offer that no other attack type offers is combo finishers. Which, eh, doesn't seem enough of a reason to delete whole weapons and tools from a game mode.

 

And as for the "just punish them", I was talking about behavior you would exhibit in a world without bubbles in which all melee and ranged had the abilities to maintain their ideal positioning.

 

27 minutes ago, Alpha.1308 said:

but i'm like 80% sure that in spvp, if you have 1 deadeye pewpewing in a 2v2 with 1 melee on point fighting 2 melees on point, the deadeye will offer MUCH more value than any individual of 2v2 melees fighting on point 

 

until you throw a bubble onto the point 

 

now the deadeye is getting 0 value, where absolutely nothing would drop a melee characters value to absolute 0

imo, if a deadeye camping a spot is more of a problem than a melee being supported by a melee, that would be more of a problem with risk, setup, and payoff balance than it is how the damage is delivered.  If (in a world without bubbles) a friend and I were both defending a point, and we both were melee, and those "problem" two came up. I would just break off to go harass the ranged person. Yes, in a 2v2 full melee battle my friend and I are there to support eachother since one of us doesn't have to break off, but also same thing goes with the opposing melee. Conversely yes I am split off from my friend's support, but if I'm doing my job, so is the opposing melee from their ranged buddy. What happens next is a topic about control / mobility utilities, damage numbers, risk/reward payoffs, or even terrain design, but not really the fact that one of us delivers their damage in a unit that needs to travel from the player to their target.  I really just see those two differently ranged matchups as two different problems with two different solutions and two different short-term goals. 

 

And to punctuate.  Mechanics with no counterplay other than to give up suck, all or nothing mechanics suck, bubbles as they are now suck.

 

God, could you imagine a boon in the game that if you got struck in melee, it would knockback/throwdown your opponent while the boon was active?  Heck, anet, if bubbles are gonna work like they currently do, I want a judo boon! (actually wait no, please save this idea for april fools, I'll take my payment in scraps of silk pls.)

[Alpha.1308]

1 hour ago, Roda.7468 said:

My confusion as to why people think projectiles, specifically, are so powerful

i'm not sure how to word this

i do apologize if i'm coming off as rude or just not explaining it correctly

 

it's not directly that this game has strong "projectiles" it's mostly just... range as a concept, i guess 

it's just that, this game's projectiles are the easiest and most spammable ranged options

and it's projectiles that can get deleted

not beams and other ranged options

and projectiles were the topic

 

and range is just typically a +1 in pvp, it doesn't lose anything, at least in a flat plain

sure, real pvp involves tactics and strategies, i get that

but then you'd need to look at the net gain to both, which would end up leaving them both at 0, on that same flat plain, in terms of tactics and strategy 

but it just means we're back to range having that +1, because it's not a "tactic"... it's just a simple advantage 

and if in spvp the whole idea is to hold onto a point... i mean, i'd ASSUME trying to LoS isn't always an option

but i also don't know that for a fact since i don't do spvp, so i don't know map layouts 

but even if you are still doing that, spending your time hiding behind a wall, i'm still also going to assume that's a +1 to the one forcing you there, if you're the one zoning and it's working, i don't see how you're the one losing, but i suppose it depends  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Roda.7468 said:

God, could you imagine a boon in the game that if you got struck in melee, it would knockback/throwdown your opponent while the boon was active? 

sooooo..... shock aura?

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Roda.7468]

1 hour ago, Alpha.1308 said:

i'm not sure how to word this

i do apologize if i'm coming off as rude or just not explaining it correctly

 

it's not directly that this game has strong "projectiles" it's mostly just... range as a concept, i guess 

it's just that, this game's projectiles are the easiest and most spammable ranged options

and it's projectiles that can get deleted

not beams and other ranged options

and projectiles were the topic

Yeah, but when the discussions about this pop up, no one on the pro-bubble side really cares about the existence of those other non-projectile ranged attacks and fields. At least they always seem to focus on basic attacks being a missile being somehow scary enough to warrant deleting them from viability while not also advising deleting other ranged options as well (which I don't want them to do either lmao).  It's just a confusing lack of consistency/things not adding up.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Alpha.1308 said:

and range is just typically a +1 in pvp, it doesn't lose anything, at least in a flat plain

sure, real pvp involves tactics and strategies, i get that

but then you'd need to look at the net gain to both, which would end up leaving them both on that same flat plain, in terms of tactics and strategy 

but it just means we're back to range having that +1, because it's not a "tactic"... it's just a simple advantage 

and if in spvp the whole idea is to hold onto a point... i mean, i'd ASSUME trying to LoS isn't always an option

but i also don't know that for a fact since i don't do spvp, so i don't know map layouts 

but even if you are still doing that, spending your time hiding behind a wall, i'm still also going to assume that's a +1 to the one forcing you there, if you're the one zoning and it's working, i don't see how you're the one losing, but i suppose it depends 

It might be a +1 in this game, I don't really think of encounters in numbers like that, but that would be because there would be a lack of a melee's -1 in the form of gap closers or control abilities and a good beatin' stick to balance the match up out.  As a ranged player you're supposed to be lower on the terms of reactive defenses when compared to a melee opponent.  Maybe one or two chances to reset the fight, but if a melee gets to you, it should be a problem, not just be The Part Where The Melee Gets To Hit Numbers Buttons Too.  Numerically, sure, we can say that having more reliable uptime on the offensive skills is an advantage.  But that's why melee typically are supposed to be given more payoff when their hits DO connect than the range's easy plinks.  And I really cannot discount the value of a good old fashion "OH LAWD HE'S COMIN" as a melee bumrushes the ranged in the thick of it.  Like in a well balanced game that should be a factor lol.  REAL meatspace fear and confusion as the ranged hopes they have all their tools ready to deal with that very thick problem.  It's honestly a fun experience on both ends lol.  And yeah, I'm a really big fan of chaos and mindgames, so I can never get behind thinking of these things like you do physics 101 problems like "imagine a cow that's a perfect sphere on an infinite flat plane."  I'm more unga bunga than that.  I crave the chase.

 

THAT ALL BEING SAID. I am not 100% against the ideas of projectile reflects.  Just like I'm not against confusion and other on-hit conditional punishments.  I just think it shouldn't be as lazy as plop down an uncapped field of don't-play-here, and especially not something that you can just accidentally upkeep.  It should be a reactive decision to deny a very obvious burst that a projectile player had been carelessly setting up and a punishment for them being too predictable.  And spending that opportunity should come at a utility cost.  'Cause the double bounce thing IS an interesting solution, but with two people plopping down their own bubbles, effectively increasing the travel time for a quadruplly obviously tell'd (told?) SEQUENCE of attacks.. it just looks and feels dumb.  There's gotta be a better way to handle this.

 

1 hour ago, Alpha.1308 said:

sooooo..... shock aura?

IF BUBBLES DON'T HAVE AN INTERNAL COOLDOWN, THEN JUDO BOON DOESN'T EITHER.  LAUNCH AN ATTACK THAT HITS 3 TIMES RAPIDLY? GUESS WHO'S GETTING THROWN 3 TIMES!  LETS👏GET👏OPPRESSIVE!

Edited August 19, 2021 by Roda.7468
Hello again confused face spammer, I hope you are well. I recommend fish oil supplements, vitamin b12, and a good night's rest to combat your uncontrollable feelings of confusion.

[mortrialus.3062]

20 hours ago, hobotnicax.7918 said:

Good, welcome to the world of ranger projectile hate. Enjoy your stay.

Let's compare ranger longbow to what Virtuoso gets. 

 

Longbow 1:  Very high velocity ranged projectile, does more damage the further away from the target you are.  

Longbow 2:  Rapid fire, high damage skill typically 4-7k damage or in SPvP.  Equally effective at all ranges.  Main Damage.

Longbow 3:  Instant cast skill with a bit of an after cast that provides 3 seconds of stealth.  Giving you an escape option.

Longbow 4:  A 100-600 range knockback should your enemy manage to close the gap for you.  Giving you a second escape option.

Longbow 5:  A massive node sized AOE that does massive damage and cripples targets to keep them from getting to you.  Can rack up 6-10k damage.  You can decide exactly where it goes. Helps kite.

 

Compared to:

 

Dagger 1:  A projectile that pierces.  Not bad for an auto attack, sure.  Currently bugged and the flurry attack fails to cast more often that it succeeds but that's not a concern of balance.  Very slow projectile.  Range longbow is probably 2-3x the velocity of dagger.

Dagger 2:  Requires point blank range as well as detargetting the opponent and angling your camera down at your opponent's feat for max damage.  Typically hits for 4-6k in SPvP.  Main damage.

Dagger 3:  A slow moving AOE that pulses damage inside it and shoots mini projectiles.  Spawns at the mesmer's location and slowly moves forward.  No utility, just damage and very undertuned. 

 

Now you can run a few offhand choices with mesmer dagger, but you're never going to get the same sort of flexibility that ranger gets.  You either just get stealth with torch.  Or you just get a stun with pistol.  Or you just get a pull with focus.   Longbow is actually a good weapon kit, with an excellent toolkit that gives what you need to succeed as a ranged damage dealer.  You get long range damage, fast projectiles that will actually hit their target, you get a main damage skill that is always good without secondary conditions, you get cripple to keep foes from getting to you, and you get stealth and a knockback should they get close to you.  

 

Virtuoso on the other hand has slow projectiles across the board, it's main damage skill is effectively a melee skill, and it doesn't have anywhere the effective toolkit ranger longbow has both in terms of ease of damage dealing as well as keeping foes away from you as you do it.   Ranger longbow has the tools it needs to be a good ranged weapon in PvP.  Virtuoso dagger simply does not have the tools needed to be effective as a ranged damage dealer in PvP.

 

And I haven't even gotten into how great of a synergy greatsword has on ranger with longbow.  With maul you have a very powerful melee damage dealer, making you threatening to anyone who gets close to you.  You have a 1000 unit dash attack to give yourself a huge amount of distance very quickly, You have a 3 second channeled block to defend yourself that will give you a melee knockdown should you block an attack, and you have a daze.  Really, its that 3 second channeled block and the dash that make greatsword because they're such amazing tools to have at all times. 

 

Mesmer doesn't have anything like that.  Sword doesn't do anywhere close to the amount of damage ranger greatsword gets.  It only has a 1s stationary evade that you can't use to kite like with ranger greatsword block.  They did change sword 3 to give you a leap on virtuoso and when you compare the cooldowns and distance Swoop edges out blade leap by a bit but not massively.   Really, that channeled block is just insanely good.  Imagine if blurred frenzy let you kite away as you were doing it and it would be half as good as the ranger block.

 

And mesmer greatsword, all you get is a pretty weak melee range knockback.  Certainly no 600 unit pointblank shot like ranger.

 

TLDR:  Ranger longbow has the tools needed to be a good ranged weapon.  Vituoso dagger does not.  Ranger also has better more synergistic options for it's alternative weapon. 

[mortrialus.3062]

double post

Edited August 19, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[mortrialus.3062]

triple post

Edited August 19, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[anduriell.6280]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:37 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

Virtuosos should have gotten some kind of Unblockable trait.

This is clearly a L2P issue, Rangers have been playing around the increasing reflections for 9 years.

 

If ranger players can other more privileged classes can too. I thought ranger was considered a low floor class with no skill just pewpew. Now Virtuoso is exactly the same but mesmers mains are good players , so they should  easily one shot anybody. The numbers are there.

 

And it got piercing baseline, i really don't get the complains. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

TLDR:  Ranger longbow has the tools needed to be a good ranged weapon.  Vituoso dagger does not.  Ranger also has better more synergistic options for it's alternative weapon. 

Maybe you need to find a build that works then instead whining because now you have to play against the game mechanics.

 

Dagger may be a PvE weapon, same as happened to Soulbeast. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

It is explained above.

Rangers have melee, pets, SB skills whereas virt's F1 and F2 which are the bread and butter do nothing.

To add to that, dagger skills, staff and scepter autos (both sucks without clones btw), focus phantasm do nothing as well, so it leaves as the only damaging skills blurred frenzy, GS kit and that's about it.

And again no F1 and F2 means no damage.

 

I mean it's not hard to imagine, maul damage does now 2k damage, SB skills are now all projectiles and pets are there just for show. Enjoy.

 

[mortrialus.3062]

13 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Maybe you need to find a build that works then instead whining because now you have to play against the game mechanics.

 

Dagger may be a PvE weapon, same as happened to Soulbeast. 

 

18 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

This is clearly a L2P issue, Rangers have been playing around the increasing reflections for 9 years.

 

If ranger players can other more privileged classes can too. I thought ranger was considered a low floor class with no skill just pewpew. Now Virtuoso is exactly the same but mesmers mains are good players , so they should  easily one shot anybody. The numbers are there.

 

And it got piercing baseline, i really don't get the complains. 

If you're so confident virtuoso is godly how about you go hop into ranked and hit plat 3 with it and show us. 

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Love the comparison, never knew turning into soulbeast or druid can be reflected, or that most professional mechanics they have can also be reflected.

 

Let me just swap my virtuoso to chrono mid battle or just equip this trait that gives unblockable in case I meet a healbrand/tempest...oh wait, mesmer has no such trait or skill.

[anduriell.6280]

2 minutes ago, NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

Let me just swap my virtuoso to chrono mid battle or just equip this trait that gives unblockable in case I meet a healbrand/tempest...oh wait, mesmer has no such trait or skill.

There is no trait that "gives unblockable" for Ranger, Druid or Soulbeast either. Otherwise share the link. 

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

2 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

There is no trait that "gives unblockable" for Ranger, Druid or Soulbeast either. Otherwise share the link. 

 

Really? That's the best argument you can bring?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable_(effect)

Sure you can argue SB meta don't use it because they can play around with other skills like CA or SB professional skills or swap to melee set. But the fact is the tool is there.

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

 

Really? That's the best argument you can bring?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable_(effect)

Sure you can argue SB meta don't use it because they can play around with other skills like CA or SB professional skills or swap to melee set. But the fact is the tool is there.

 

You should read the wiki before writing nonsensical stuff. That is not a trait, it is an skill. An utility skill. Nobody uses that skill because is a waste of spot and it will not work with Rapid Fire. 

 

Same as any other of the classes in there. The only one who has a trait with unblockable is warrior as you can read in the page. 

[mortrialus.3062]

8 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

There is no trait that "gives unblockable" for Ranger, Druid or Soulbeast either. Otherwise share the link. 

Unstoppable Union used to give 5 seconds of unblockable.  And going through your post history I see you spent a significant amount of time talking about how "necessary" that trait was to compete with all the blocks in the game.

 

 

Quote

Traits to work in both states: as example unstoppable union to activate when unmerged too. Strong? Don’t think so, soulbeast is supposed to compete with strong melee classes, back lack the amount of blocks, damage, sustain and immunities warrior or guardian have (in any of their specs)

 

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Like I said, mesmer has no such trait or skill. What you are trying to achieve by derail that into "ranger has no such trait"? 

 

What you haven't achieve is explaining how virtuoso is going to play around without their professional mechanics.

 

Btw I multiclass into plat including SB/druid. Don't BS me into saying that I don't read or don't know Ranger meta. I've played decapper with druid since HoT and SB before all the nerfs

Edited August 19, 2021 by NICENIKESHOE.7128

[mortrialus.3062]

There's plenty of profession skills that are completely unblockable. 

 

Spear of Justice,  Full Counter, Swipe, Breaching Strike, Skull Fear.  There's also plenty of traits that have unblockable effects like Magebane Tether, Bountiful Theft, Soul Marks. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[anduriell.6280]

1 minute ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Unstoppable Union used to give 5 seconds of unblockable.  And going through your post history I see you spent a significant amount of time talking about how "necessary" that trait was to compete with all the blocks in the game.

"Used to" is the right verbal tense. Used to until the unblockable rework ages ago. 

 

Yes i used to think ranger needed better access to unblockable but then i learned to play. So i think it is good everybody can learn to play too. 

 

3 minutes ago, NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

Like I said, mesmer has no such trait or skill. What you are trying to achieve by derail that into "ranger has no such trait"? 

 

What you haven't achieve is explaining how virtuoso is going to play around without their professional mechanics.

 

Btw I multiclass into plat including SB/druid. Don't BS me into saying that I don't read or don't know Ranger meta. I've played decapper with druid since HoT and SB before all the nerfs

I have already explained, Soulbeasts (Druid is not used in pvp/wvw) do not use the unblockable signet. 

If such low floor class  can learn to play around the reflects obviously other mains with higher ceiling classes can learn too.

 

Now instead complaining about the core mechanic of the new e-spec why not start thinking how to make it work? The same as rangers have been doing for the last 9 years. Mesmers do have no projectile weapons as well.