Story feedback and my issues with it. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Story feedback and my issues with it.

zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 28, 2020 in Living World

This episode to me shows something rather scary for the narative and lore of the game which is how seemingly, fine the narative team are with taking established lore of the races and just doing away with it to tell their own message.

We know, war's bad, executing traitors or captured enemies is bad but thats viewed badly to us as humans, from my playthrough of gw1 and some of gw2 thats not at all what I got from charr tho. Charr are all about that kitten, they love it, they are all about war, death, destruction (i mean u can see it just from gw1 the extend they would go to kill their enemies both of the same race or other races and their disregard for the environment in the process).

But for some reason we are supposed to believe that charr now have forsaken all their ideologies and their lifestyle and that Smoldur is the outlier here? (even tho he seems to act in character for what the charr are).

And even if the charr are supposed to have this race development where they grown to be more forgiving and understanding and kinder it falls flat because its not earned here and hasnt been in the story whatsoever, so it ends up feeling forced.

Im fine wity Rytlock feeling the way he feels because you set it up as such but why is his ex feeling the same (remember she stab him just to not blow their cover, and these 2 have a kid together)? It would be a great thing to see the 2 ideologies clash between the 2 over their son's fate.

At the start I was very much a fan of the story because Bangar was imo acting like a believable charr, sceptical of the power others posses yet not allowed to have such power for himself and his race, and hes showing no quarter or mercy to anyone whos trying to prevent him from aquiring it. Im so invested in Bangar because hes a real villian with beluevabke motivations and goes about achieving them in character (for him and his racial stereotype).

Comments

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2020

    They ruined Smodur's character just to have a few shocking turns in the story.
    It's not the first time an MMO did such a thing.

    I don't like where the story is going.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2020

    There is no diplomatic option though. Smodur knows full well what an ED on the doorstep is like and the options here are join Bangar (who appears to be influenced by Jormag) and wake Jormag and get corrupted or stop Bangar at all costs. There is no middle ground despite Crecia's hopes. That should be blatant to all the NPC's.

    Has Smodur gone war crazy? Quite possibly and understandable given the he's been at war for so long with so many different factions - humans, separatists+renegades, Ghosts, Branded, briefly Modremoth. He prob sees this as winnable, but with the stakes at their most highest and given the years at war, has prob succumbed too far into the role at long last (possibly pushed further by Jormag).

    Seeking negotiations with the humans made sense since the humans were depleted after their own wars with Charr and Centaurs and there was more to gain as allies than enemies. There is no such advantage here for Smodur to seek a diplomatic option and given Bangar's ruthlessness, there really isn't much alternative for Smodur.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2020

    i feel it weird too and the ruthless exageratted,
    but i guess they did it to balance the existence of too much "diplomatic" characters on our side,(crecia, rytlock, commander itself), its a "big war", so they need someone to play the "Stalin" of WW2.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2020

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    i feel it weird too and the ruthless exageratted,
    but i guess they did it to balance the existence of too much "diplomatic" characters on our side,(crecia, rytlock, commander itself), its a "big war", so they need someone to play the "Stalin" of WW2.

    Then why they've decided upon the one charr that was known for being the calm and diplomatic one?

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    There is no diplomatic option though. Smodur knows full well what an ED on the doorstep is like and the options here are join Bangar (who appears to be influenced by Jormag) and wake Jormag and get corrupted or stop Bangar at all costs. There is no middle ground despite Crecia's hopes. That should be blatant to all the NPC's.

    Why do you think that talks and diplomacy must be done with Bangar only? Bangar's not even there. They should have used his absence as an opportunity to take away his army from under him. Not make that army even more loyal (and push even more charr into Jormag's arms, from which there's no return).

    there really isn't much alternative for Smodur.

    And yet he just got flat out told by the current leaders of Ash, Blood and Flame that they won't ever recognize him as Khan Ur. Just because he was so impatient that he couldn't even wait for 5 more minutes, deciding instead to visibly sabotage all his allies' efforts, in a way that was downright insulting to them, and one that they simply couldn't ignore.
    That was a masterful feat of diplomacy indeed. One for which Smodur was well known.
    ...oh wait.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    i feel it weird too and the ruthless exageratted,
    but i guess they did it to balance the existence of too much "diplomatic" characters on our side,(crecia, rytlock, commander itself), its a "big war", so they need someone to play the "Stalin" of WW2.

    Then why they've decided upon the one charr that was known for being the calm and diplomatic one?

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    There is no diplomatic option though. Smodur knows full well what an ED on the doorstep is like and the options here are join Bangar (who appears to be influenced by Jormag) and wake Jormag and get corrupted or stop Bangar at all costs. There is no middle ground despite Crecia's hopes. That should be blatant to all the NPC's.

    Why do you think that talks and diplomacy must be done with Bangar only? Bangar's not even there. They should have used his absence as an opportunity to take away his army from under him. Not make that army even more loyal (and push even more charr into Jormag's arms, from which there's no return).

    Bangar might not have been there but the position of his representatives was obvious from the moment we walked into the pavilion.

    Ryland Steelcatcher: Again, our terms are simple: announce your surrender and proclaim your support of Bangar's campaign.

    I don't see much room for discussion there or much opportunity for taking Bangar's army from him. Pleading with Ryland wouldn't work or do anything more than make the United Legions look weak.

    And let's not forget that Varania Stormsounder was also there just in case Bangar needed to keep Ryland in line. Which isn't necessary because he's Bangar's boy through and through.

    So there's no diplomatic option.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    i feel it weird too and the ruthless exageratted,
    but i guess they did it to balance the existence of too much "diplomatic" characters on our side,(crecia, rytlock, commander itself), its a "big war", so they need someone to play the "Stalin" of WW2.

    Then why they've decided upon the one charr that was known for being the calm and diplomatic one?

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    There is no diplomatic option though. Smodur knows full well what an ED on the doorstep is like and the options here are join Bangar (who appears to be influenced by Jormag) and wake Jormag and get corrupted or stop Bangar at all costs. There is no middle ground despite Crecia's hopes. That should be blatant to all the NPC's.

    Why do you think that talks and diplomacy must be done with Bangar only? Bangar's not even there. They should have used his absence as an opportunity to take away his army from under him. Not make that army even more loyal (and push even more charr into Jormag's arms, from which there's no return).

    Bangar might not have been there but the position of his representatives was obvious from the moment we walked into the pavilion.

    Ryland Steelcatcher: Again, our terms are simple: announce your surrender and proclaim your support of Bangar's campaign.

    I don't see much room for discussion there or much opportunity for taking Bangar's army from him. Pleading with Ryland wouldn't work or do anything more than make the United Legions look weak.

    And let's not forget that Varania Stormsounder was also there just in case Bangar needed to keep Ryland in line. Which isn't necessary because he's Bangar's boy through and through.

    So there's no diplomatic option.

    Again, this is conflating a side with one person. Notice, how Bangar is not really talking to Smodur. But still, individual charr of the United Legions are still being persuaded to join his cause on constant basis. Bangar's side is even utilizing propaganda leaflets and megaphones. A whole PR campaign. Smodur's answer? "Let's kill everyone". He, the so called masterful diplomat, is losing on the propaganda field with Bangar, the least diplomatic of the imperators.

    It's not like he is not willing to talk with Ryland. He is not willing to talk with anyone. Even his allies, actually. All his actions are only making the current rift between the charr stronger, and make sure that no reconciliation will be possible even if we'll manage to stop Bangar in time (and seeing how the story goes, i'm not so sure we will).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    i feel it weird too and the ruthless exageratted,
    but i guess they did it to balance the existence of too much "diplomatic" characters on our side,(crecia, rytlock, commander itself), its a "big war", so they need someone to play the "Stalin" of WW2.

    Then why they've decided upon the one charr that was known for being the calm and diplomatic one?

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    There is no diplomatic option though. Smodur knows full well what an ED on the doorstep is like and the options here are join Bangar (who appears to be influenced by Jormag) and wake Jormag and get corrupted or stop Bangar at all costs. There is no middle ground despite Crecia's hopes. That should be blatant to all the NPC's.

    Why do you think that talks and diplomacy must be done with Bangar only? Bangar's not even there. They should have used his absence as an opportunity to take away his army from under him. Not make that army even more loyal (and push even more charr into Jormag's arms, from which there's no return).

    Bangar might not have been there but the position of his representatives was obvious from the moment we walked into the pavilion.

    Ryland Steelcatcher: Again, our terms are simple: announce your surrender and proclaim your support of Bangar's campaign.

    I don't see much room for discussion there or much opportunity for taking Bangar's army from him. Pleading with Ryland wouldn't work or do anything more than make the United Legions look weak.

    And let's not forget that Varania Stormsounder was also there just in case Bangar needed to keep Ryland in line. Which isn't necessary because he's Bangar's boy through and through.

    So there's no diplomatic option.

    Again, this is conflating a side with one person. Notice, how Bangar is not really talking to Smodur. But still, individual charr of the United Legions are still being persuaded to join his cause on constant basis. Bangar's side is even utilizing propaganda leaflets and megaphones. A whole PR campaign. Smodur's answer? "Let's kill everyone". He, the so called masterful diplomat, is losing on the propaganda field with Bangar, the least diplomatic of the imperators.

    It's not like he is not willing to talk with Ryland. He is not willing to talk with anyone. Even his allies, actually. All his actions are only making the current rift between the charr stronger, and make sure that no reconciliation will be possible even if we'll manage to stop Bangar in time (and seeing how the story goes, i'm not so sure we will).

    Oh I see, yes, I agree in that. I think you're right that he comes across as... stubborn and almost childish... in his obstinacy.

    I think that the writing for the story has tended been too black and white, too heavy handed in general. Which is exacerbated by the fact that we get the story in such brief bursts. We don't know what, if any, other efforts the allied legions are making to combat desertion or to find the propaganda war because nothing is shown. We only see this hour or so of story and that's it.

    I wonder if we'll have another "but I've learned my lesson" moment next episode, like an after school special. I find it hard to believe that charr will continue deserting now that it's known that some of their comrades are Icebrood now.