Should there be an attribute tied to endurance regeneration? (assume rebalancing would follow)

This seems sort of intuitive to me.

No, because it's there aready in form of traits.

Excelsior.

Put it on vitality.

noas if there isn't already enough endurance enhancement sigil, food, traits etc.Thieves can have like 7 or 8 dodges if they trait for it, we don't need to give them 100.

@Marthkus.4615 said:Put it on vitality.

That was my original suggestion. I think that toughness and vitality are both handled in a wonky/half-kitten fashion, which is one of the reasons defensive stats are not competitive in the slighted with offensive ones.

Toughness should mitigate all types of damage (though it should mitigate conditions less than it mitigates direct damage), which would counter sustained damageVitality should increase your endurance regen, which would counter burst damage

Health bonuses are really pretty unnecessary, and arguably detrimental to the overall system due to the way they counter healing scaling (which is another problem the game has). I would advocate a slight increase in base health for all professions, and then tie % health bonuses to secondary effects like runes/sigils/food (probably swapping out the current +endurance effects).

@Samnang.1879 said:noas if there isn't already enough endurance enhancement sigil, food, traits etc.Thieves can have like 7 or 8 dodges if they trait for it, we don't need to give them 100.

Oh, come on, that's just a question of balancing, which is a natural part of any systemic change. Vigor is an overpowered boon anyway, IMO, and would be need to be nerfed with a change like this. The endurance enhancements on sigils/foods/traits could be replaced with health bonuses, which honestly would make more sense.

No. It is fine as it is now. No need to change something that already works with traits.

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:No. It is fine as it is now. No need to change something that already works with traits.

It doesn't really work, though, because defensive stats are generally laughed out of the room on pretty much any build.

Endurance is the most powerful defensive tool avaliable. We don't need more ways to get it, as the current balance paradigm for all defensive abilities, sigils, and traits is contingent upon strictly controlled endurance caps and regen numbers. Making that value granular would literally break the game as everyone ditched all of the above and all defensive stats in favor of more endurance.

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:No. It is fine as it is now. No need to change something that already works with traits.

Which is fine in my opinion. I like the way GW2 does this with no real tank stats or builds. I like how everyone has to rely on their dodges to live instead of relying on toughness or defensive tanky stats.

@PopeUrban.2578 said:Endurance is the most powerful defensive tool avaliable. We don't need more ways to get it, as the current balance paradigm for all defensive abilities, sigils, and traits is contingent upon strictly controlled endurance caps and regen numbers. Making that value granular would literally break the game as everyone ditched all of the above and all defensive stats in favor of more endurance.

I love how every single disagreement is over balance terror, as if rebalancing the game wouldn't be a natural part of a systemic change like this. No one is suggesting that the purpose of an attribute affecting endurance would be to make endurance regen way higher than it is now. It would come with a lot of shuffling things around, like nerfing Vigor and replacing or nerfing +endurance regen on a lot of secondary effects like food and sigils.

The purpose is to make the defensive attributes have a clearer design goal and be more interesting to build around.

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:No. It is fine as it is now. No need to change something that already works with traits.

Except it isn't fine, objectively, to have attributes in the game that are basically trap options because they're undertuned and poorly designed. It doesn't matter if you personally care or not.

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:No. It is fine as it is now. No need to change something that already works with traits.

As the result of a cultural perception that DPS is everything.Which stems from ANet's frequent habit of combat encounters that rely on cheap one-hit-KO tactics or massive damage that makes defense worthless.And yet, in competitive play, somehow defense and bunkers are a thing?

Personally, I wouldn't mind giving Vitality more opportunity to be useful, but I don't think Stamina regen is necessarily the way to go. Or if it did, maybe give it ~1%/100 at the most. Rather, I would like to see Vitality made useful by normalizing Regeneration in some fashion.

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@PopeUrban.2578 said:Endurance is the most powerful defensive tool avaliable. We don't need more ways to get it, as the current balance paradigm for all defensive abilities, sigils, and traits is contingent upon strictly controlled endurance caps and regen numbers. Making that value granular would literally break the game as everyone ditched all of the above and all defensive stats in favor of more endurance.

I'm saying its not worth the massive rebalance to the core combat mechanics of the game such a change would require, nor the loss of potential future dodge-based spec mechanics like those found on the Mirage and Daredevil that such a system would make unfeasible to implement from a balance standpoint.The only reason we got stuff like daredevil dodges or mirage ambush attacks is because there are very strict limitations on how often one can dodge. Throw that out the window, and you have to revise every block, every HP total, every cast time, every damage value, and revisit every existing endurance source.

Its a huge balance change that touches every part of the game just so people can use one button more often.

This is not a change that's reasonable to make at this point. Its a discussion to have in the formative stages of the combat system. Especially if the end goal is a less active and dynamic combat system.

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:No. It is fine as it is now. No need to change something that already works with traits.

Because this is an active combat game and defensive stats are passive.They technically shouldn't even exist but they allow people who are not so good to survive a bit longer and be able to go through some content they wouldn't be able to otherwise.

@Zedek.8932 said:No, because it's there aready in form of traits.

Excelsior.

Apparently traits are attributes, oh wait, no they're not and that makes absolutely no sense.

I don't think solely adding stat scaling will do the trick, but something does need to be done, there is still no build variety in the majority of this game and there never has been, and that is primarily because of how dodge is almost completely removed from the remainder of the game systems, and trumps every offensive mechanic without any response, nullifying a massive portion of the games build options.

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:No. It is fine as it is now. No need to change something that already works with traits.

It is fine since they built the game on no real tankiness with in mind and rely more on dodges. They only introduced quasi tanks in HoT, but the basis was already set. It is an easy solution to those thinking vitality and other defensive stats are bad; you just don't use them. It is that simple.

Yes, I don't know exactly were... but IMO there are many essential parts of the game mechanic that should be linked to atribbutes: Endurance, CC Strenght and Condi Cleanse, to begin with. Of course, it is very hard for this to ever happen... but IMO, the game would truly be better if they could rebuild some of the core elements to make a more cohesive system.

Its only a problem for balance, because ANet hasn't ever done ANYTHING for these core mechanics to get balanced.They instead just kept on permanently ignoring the bigger important combat system mechanics and just cared for only making changes on the much simpler to change basic combat system elements, that are Skills, Traits and Conditions, the only the pillars of which ANet has ever dared within the last 5 years to truly touch at all, while they didn#t care at all, what happens to the rest of the comat system, which they literally left there to die without giving it EVER any attention at all to improve these totally outdated mechanics, that were originally designed and "balanced" around the state of the game in which GW2 was release AT FREAKING 2012!!!

But ANet has changed over the last 5 years by now so much stuff on the game, that affects the combat system of 2012's gameplay elements, that the ganme has been massively in the need within the last 2+ years at least to get finally a huge combat gameplay ADJUSTMENT in ALL of its important parts that belong in all together to the combat system of GW2, because a combat system and class balance doesn't consist only out of skills, traits and codinsition,s as it seems that Anet does want to make us all believe that, that thy can balance a game like this, whis this complexity, with this big sum of changes on skills and traits, and added new mechanics by only cherrypickinmg permanently on the tiny michanics of the combat system only - it is unevitable, that you MUST update in reasonable time periods also all of your other combat system relevent gameplay mechancis, to keep them adjusted, actualized and working smoothfully with all the skills, traits ect. together.But what we have currently here is a clock, whose interiors are totally rusted, because of Anets ignorance, which runs with golden shining clock fingers, because thats the only thign of the clock, that Anet has cared for in the last 5 years....

This game is like a 5 year old book, whose cover is looking all shiny and good, but its rotten and outdated from the inside.. thats the balance state of this game sadly, because as it seems it is the case, that anet simply has not the will, nor the manpower, noer the ressources for it in regard of money (what would be the case if theres for example an optional sub fee to stabilize the money income-option, if well designed and implemented, just compare GW2 with FF14, you'll see the difference in quality quickly and what the reason for this is)Quarterly Balance Updates aren#t enough for this game. To keep this game balanced, GW2 would need to receive at least a Balance Update every 2 months!!!And every 6 to 12 months its necessary to give the game a big, and with this I means a seriously bigger balance update, which isn't just focused only on stupid skills and traits alone, but which has also a widened focus on all the other combat system and class balance system relevant parts of the game, which influence the outcome of battles heavily that is

• Conditions
• Boons
• Upgrades (Runes, Sigils, Gemstones)
• Base Health Values (this System is heavily outdated and needs a redesign from scratch!! Al,l classes must have to be balanced individualy, kick this limiting health type system out finally, it hurts the class balance more, than it helps the game at all!! )
• Removal of Gear Stats, give players 100% freedom of Character Progression, this allows also for much more interesting build defining effects for Upgrades!!
• Rework if the Attribute System - making all Attributes equally worthful and effective in regard of Attribute Synergies with other Attributes and give all Attributes two effects, os that each Attribute in itself becomes more important and inpactful for your build (Power, Vitality, Touchness, Precision, Agility, Courage, Wisdom - the only 7 Dual Effect Attributes that GW2 needs to cover with them everythign what a Combat Sysrem needs to be equally effective for Offense, as like Defense, including alot of defensive mechanics, that can make some other things in this game completel obsolete, like Boons/Conditions, to help to reduce the effect cluster**** that this game has become down again to a normal sane level!!!, while putting some of these effects back again into Attributes, where these effects should belong to better, so that your build iof your Character plays again a more impoertant role and how you have distributed your Attribute Points among your 7 choices - together with the option to always reset the build, whenever you want - just like we were able to do that in GW for a fee of 500 Gold, what was back in GW1 nothing at all, what felt there like what would be here like 5 Silver

Yes, this all sounds when you read this down like a kind of "mission impossible", because of that immensive workload that this task would mean for this game and its devs, but thats the workload that Anet caused themself due to 5 years of ignorance and not caring at all for all the parts of the combat system and cherry picking permanently only onto the tiny thigns they can change, instead of looking over also the bigger gameplay elements, that keep a combat system together, and also belong to class balance as well too.The work load would be naturally much smaller, if ANet would have cared in the last 5 years more oftenly for Upgrades, Boons, and Conditions - and the only single time when they actualyl cared for Conditions, that totally royalled f ...ed up everything from June 2015 on, and didn't changed even until then to today anythign from those changes, which massively ruined the whole game balance and lead to the Condi Meta, that we have since then now, that rules over the whole game in all modes, cause of Condi builds being so massively OP anmd braindead at the same time, requiring of the player absolutely no skill at all, because a mechanic that ticks down does just all the work for you - which is the reason, why a GW2 without damage dealing conditions woudl be also a much better game - conditions are there, to influence the combats, not to replace the fighting, by just spamming an enemy full with dot conditions and watching from then moment on, how your foes dies within seconds, while all you have to do is running away and makign sure, that the conditions don#t run out what is no problem at lal, because you can spam anybody here in this game full with conditions constantly faster, then the enemies are able to ged rid of the condtion.. and what is most ridiculous is, that all the conditions also complwetely ignore all your defense values and players have no way at all, to reduce this , except with the resaistance Boon to bullify it instantly completely, which on the other hand is then so veryl imited useable , that not all classes have access to hit

I'm not proposing without reason for the last 2 years over and over again, that these mechanics are all outdated and need changes.

Anet has lost already completely their plans of making GW2 any kind of successful Pvp game, due to its horrible outdated combat system to the point that they basicalyl could completely remove WvW and PvP out iof this game and I say, I wouldn#t really miss those game modes at all, if ANet then completely 100% focuses themself on the PvE element of this game and makes sure, thast the cobmat system is at least enjoyful, fun, balanced and well designed for the only part of this game, that actually RUNS WELL and BRINGS In ALL THE GOD DARn CASH In for this company - not PvP, not WvW, nope, PvE is the single cash cow for this game....peopel buy expansions, because of the PvE content..Did PoF ANYTHING at all for PvP or WvW? NOOOOOOOO - there you have it!! Why? Because peopel buy xpacs for pvE content mainly and for nothign else, the changes that come to PvP/WvW areonly there due to the new Elite Specializations, that have their influence on the game balance naturally.

Its time, that ANet shifts their whole balancing of the game to the focus of PvE... PvP and WvW miserably have failed and are just wasted ressources, they are dead weight and GW2 would be much better set for its future, if they would ditch this dead weight finally off completely, if they don't plan on focusing more ressources onto game balance, to keep all 3 modes equally supported for the next years, while addign also consistently new content to PvP/WvW as well in form of new maps, player progression ect..

When has there been the last WvW Tournament actually? Its already 3 years ago... when has WvW actually seen the last bigger attention and new content, that was not based on an expansion?To make an end to my rant here - I'd just truly wish for this game, that it soon receives finalyl for once one honestly big true balance patch, that this game really deserves to receive after 5 years now, where not only changes on skilsl and traits asre made, like Anet always does only, but where they finally put and eye also on at least again all Conditions all boons, all Upgrades and remove Gear Stats. Then would be basically already half the job done with just the simpler things, while they could keep changes to the Attribute System and Health System for later for exactually some kind of Feature Pack or the next Expansion, cause thats the big stuff, that would require the most work effort of rebalancign the game, that affects also the most game content to be changed, adjusted and rebalanced of everything ther is to consider among all gameplay modes.

But that mammoth work would be worth it, as you will see, should Anet ever dare to make this job done, that they ignored to do for the last 5 years, then this game will run so much better from this point on and will feel again, like a completely fresh new game, where all of its combat system mechanics would feel again, like a running smoth clock, where all of its parts are not rusted, but in harmony, oiled, and ticking in line, like made freshly new.Nobody would ever expect from ANet to do such a mammoth task all in one go, its naturalyl somethign that would take its time to make it happen - one thing after another - but anet finally has to BEGIN, insteand of beign permanently stagnant on this topic and doing nothing, as if the'd be too scared of touching these things to improve their own game.