Anet: Stop punishing players for the kittenfest your matching system produces. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Anet: Stop punishing players for the kittenfest your matching system produces.

Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

/endrant

Comments

  • Filip.7463Filip.7463 Member ✭✭✭

    There is too low player pop. If u are p1, both teams might be p1+g1g1g1g1 so matchmaking is fair and its expected from you to take care over your team

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Filip.7463 said:
    There is too low player pop. If u are p1, both teams might be p1+g1g1g1g1 so matchmaking is fair and its expected from you to take care over your team

    Except that by this argument more, and more players would get frustrated with this mode and leave, driving the population even lower.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well they could start by reverting the patch that killed off the population, make a big announcement on the forums like they did last time. Might get some better matchmaking when there are actually players to matchmake.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Well they could start by reverting the patch that killed off the population, make a big announcement on the forums like they did last time. Might get some better matchmaking when there are actually players to matchmake.

    But we know that is not going to happen. And in the meantime pvp keeps hemorrhaging from whatever little population is left. My degree of frustration with the current ranked system is making that entire mode almost unplayable to me.

  • I had same feelings recently after returning to game, and got super solution - don't play sPvP :lol:
    My live become much better, now i just randomly go for some meta events, and my "game time" becomes shorter and shorter day by day, because there is no real enjoyment to play.
    So i think in week or two i will quit again, most likely for ever.
    P.S. Real advice - don't spend your time with something makes you frustrated it just pixels do something useful IRL, this probably is biggest lost potential game ever.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ragazm.6018 said:
    I had same feelings recently after returning to game, and got super solution - don't play sPvP :lol:

    I'm almost at that point fam.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    Not every top stat is impactful towards a match. Your team losing by one point seems to be a fairly even match.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    Not every top stat is impactful towards a match. Your team losing by one point seems to be a fairly even match.

    I brought up that match as an example. You could lose by 1 point or 500 points, you could have no top stats or all top stats – and you still get punished just as bad.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    Not every top stat is impactful towards a match. Your team losing by one point seems to be a fairly even match.

    I brought up that match as an example. You could lose by 1 point or 500 points, you could have no top stats or all top stats – and you still get punished just as bad.

    You lose a match which then causes you to lose rank points. I don’t see what the issue is. Everyone likely feels that they put a lot of effort into a match so should they all be less penalized for a loss too? Top stats are not a great indicator towards performance for a match.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    Not every top stat is impactful towards a match. Your team losing by one point seems to be a fairly even match.

    I brought up that match as an example. You could lose by 1 point or 500 points, you could have no top stats or all top stats – and you still get punished just as bad.

    You lose a match which then causes you to lose rank points. I don’t see what the issue is. Everyone likely feels that they put a lot of effort into a match so should they all be less penalized for a loss too? Top stats are not a great indicator towards performance for a match.

    You are missing a small fact. You lose a match because your TEAM was not as good as the other team. You could be the best player in the game, and play your best game ever, and still lose because of your team. You have no say In who’s on your team, and yet you get punished for that.
    A very kitten system.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Filip.7463 said:
    There is too low player pop. If u are p1, both teams might be p1+g1g1g1g1 so matchmaking is fair and its expected from you to take care over your team

    This. You (and your duo queue if you have one) have to play significantly well. It's not ideal. When your MMR is "high" you should expect to lose 20 mmr every game, which is pretty stupid. Makes me wish they capped + /- after 20 games played

    How the heck do I get 5 stars?
  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2021

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    Not every top stat is impactful towards a match. Your team losing by one point seems to be a fairly even match.

    I brought up that match as an example. You could lose by 1 point or 500 points, you could have no top stats or all top stats – and you still get punished just as bad.

    You lose a match which then causes you to lose rank points. I don’t see what the issue is. Everyone likely feels that they put a lot of effort into a match so should they all be less penalized for a loss too? Top stats are not a great indicator towards performance for a match.

    You are missing a small fact. You lose a match because your TEAM was not as good as the other team. You could be the best player in the game, and play your best game ever, and still lose because of your team. You have no say In who’s on your team, and yet you get punished for that.
    A very kitten system.

    Well it’s a team mode so it’s fairly obvious your team loses because the other team was better. That’s how practically every other team vs team modes work in other games as well. Not sure what this has to do with anything.

    How do you know that you were the best player on the team and by what degree?

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    Not every top stat is impactful towards a match. Your team losing by one point seems to be a fairly even match.

    I brought up that match as an example. You could lose by 1 point or 500 points, you could have no top stats or all top stats – and you still get punished just as bad.

    You lose a match which then causes you to lose rank points. I don’t see what the issue is. Everyone likely feels that they put a lot of effort into a match so should they all be less penalized for a loss too? Top stats are not a great indicator towards performance for a match.

    You are missing a small fact. You lose a match because your TEAM was not as good as the other team. You could be the best player in the game, and play your best game ever, and still lose because of your team. You have no say In who’s on your team, and yet you get punished for that.
    A very kitten system.

    Well it’s a team mode so it’s fairly obvious your team loses because the other team was better. That’s how practically every other team vs team modes work in other games as well. Not sure what this has to do with anything.

    How do you know that you were the best player on the team and by what degree?

    That’s simply factually incorrect. Most team matches in other games just don’t give you any points for losing. As opposed to taking points away from you like in GW2.

    As for your second question: top stats should mean something, otherwise just remove them from the game.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    Not every top stat is impactful towards a match. Your team losing by one point seems to be a fairly even match.

    I brought up that match as an example. You could lose by 1 point or 500 points, you could have no top stats or all top stats – and you still get punished just as bad.

    You lose a match which then causes you to lose rank points. I don’t see what the issue is. Everyone likely feels that they put a lot of effort into a match so should they all be less penalized for a loss too? Top stats are not a great indicator towards performance for a match.

    You are missing a small fact. You lose a match because your TEAM was not as good as the other team. You could be the best player in the game, and play your best game ever, and still lose because of your team. You have no say In who’s on your team, and yet you get punished for that.
    A very kitten system.

    Well it’s a team mode so it’s fairly obvious your team loses because the other team was better. That’s how practically every other team vs team modes work in other games as well. Not sure what this has to do with anything.

    How do you know that you were the best player on the team and by what degree?

    That simply factually incorrect. Most team matches in other games just don’t give you any points for losing. As opposed to taking points away from you like in GW2.

    As for your second question: top stats should mean something, otherwise just remove them from the game.

    Those that have a rating system do. Look at Valorant and League of Legends.

    You’d hope that too stats would mean something but unfortunately they don’t. Most of them would work if the game mode was pure team death match though.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2021

    Please Compare apples to apples, GW2 is not a MOBA.

    As the game stands, top stats should mean something, they are even part of the dailies. Either rework them or remove them completely.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    Please Compare apples to apples, GW2 is not a MOBA.

    As the game stands, top stats should mean something, they are even part of the dailies. Either rework them or remove them completely.

    Doesn’t matter when you’re comparing the ratings systems.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    Please Compare apples to apples, GW2 is not a MOBA.

    As the game stands, top stats should mean something, they are even part of the dailies. Either rework them or remove them completely.

    Doesn’t matter when you’re comparing the ratings systems.

    Actually it does matter a lot. Why do you think none of the big 5 MMO’s have anything like this? Kitten, even GW1 ( which had a way better rank system btw) doesn’t have anything like this.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    Please Compare apples to apples, GW2 is not a MOBA.

    As the game stands, top stats should mean something, they are even part of the dailies. Either rework them or remove them completely.

    Doesn’t matter when you’re comparing the ratings systems.

    Actually it does matter a lot. Why do you think none of the big 5 MMO’s have anything like this? Kitten, even GW1 ( which had a way better rank system btw) doesn’t have anything like this.

    So just remove the rating system altogether and anyone can be grouped with anyone?

    It doesn’t matter when you’re comparing how one game’s rating system works versus another’s. Those two games and this one have a ranking system which is used for matchmaking. Losing a game negatively impacts your ranking in all three.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2021

    And losing a match does not make u lose rank points in any of the other big 5 MMO’s or in GW2’s predecessor, GW1. I fail to see how 2 MOBA’s deducting points from you for losing is even relevant to this discussion.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2021

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    And losing a match does not make u lose rank points in any of the other big 5 MMO’s or in GW2’s predecessor, GW1. I fail to see how 2 MOBA’s deducting points from you for losing is even relevant to this discussion.

    Did those games have a ranking system for matchmaking? As I stated before, being an MMO or MOBA doesn’t matter when you’re comparing solely the ranking systems used for matchmaking. It’s no different than comparing the ranking system used for matchmaking for Stronghold vs Conquest vs Team Deathmatch in GW2 if they were all done separately.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    And losing a match does not make u lose rank points in any of the other big 5 MMO’s or in GW2’s predecessor, GW1. I fail to see how 2 MOBA’s deducting points from you for losing is even relevant to this discussion.

    Did those games have a ranking system for matchmaking? As I stated before, being an MMO or MOBA doesn’t matter when you’re comparing solely the ranking systems used for matchmaking. It’s no different than comparing the ranking system used for matchmaking for Stronghold vs Conquest vs Team Deathmatch in GW2 if they were all done separately.

    Yes, WoW has its own MMR. Happy now?
    It was a very silly idea to make the MMR in GW2 depend on the average of the party rank points instead grouping ppl with similar ranks together even if it took longer queue times. Having fast matchups should not be the target if the results are one sided kittenfest.

  • you know what would be cool, is if they introduced mechanics into the algorithm that attempted to balance things out. one example is that if you go on a 5 game losing streak, you get a team next match that is slightly biased for you to win. not by much, and possibly increase it each game after. same thing but reverse if you go on winning streaks. they might already do this idk. people mention top stats often, although they don't mean much in reality most times. that said, i don't think it would be too much of a big deal if you are set to lose -15 or over, for every top stat you get this goes down by one.

    i'm sure there are other examples, but the point is to create a more level playing field without too much hand holding.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    So you don't want to get punished because you're the best player in that matchup? What?

    Shocking concept isn't it?

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    And losing a match does not make u lose rank points in any of the other big 5 MMO’s or in GW2’s predecessor, GW1. I fail to see how 2 MOBA’s deducting points from you for losing is even relevant to this discussion.

    I don't care enough about MMR in GW2 or other games to know for sure, but from what I've heard it's fairly typical for ranked systems to penalize losses (as opposed to merely not rewarding losses). Also, I believe it's relevant to talk about any competitive game mode's ranking system, as the underlying game itself isn't what we're debating - it's about how that game treats losses in ranked.

    That being said, I agree that in the current state of affairs something should be done. The low population is further exacerbated by the fact that you lose 20+ points per loss while only gaining 3-4 points for a win. Even at low plat, it quickly becomes not worth queuing after playing if you're looking to keep your badge and rating. So on top of diminished population in general, those who still play ranked are greatly incentivized to queue less.

    As for titles... I've never seen it this bad lol. Last I saw this season I think gold 3 or even gold 2 was enough for top 250 in NA. I remember needing to push to stay above 1600 to get Merciless Legend back when I still queued ranked.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2021

    Im a g1 player this season. I got placed against grimjack last night whos like top 30 this season. And the next game i get zyn who usually also in the top 20-30 on my team. Imo the match maker doesn't work at all.

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    This! How the kitten can I get highest dps, highest heals, most offensive and defensive and most kills with a f**king marauder reaper again and again?

  • @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Im a g1 player this season. I got placed against grimjack last night whos like top 30 this season. And the next game i get zyn who usually also in the top 20-30 on my team. Imo the match maker doesn't work at all.

    Yea this kind of mm is really not ok. I get g3 players getting paired with p1s, even though there is some skill disparity there (for true g3 players, not p1's who have fallen due to bad matchmaking). But p2s (who are pretty much always duo with another p2) vs g1? I can pretty much 1v3 g1's, there's no way that kind of pairing should ever happen. Not fun for anyone.

    I try to specifically queue at peak times to ensure games feel fair, off peak games are rarely fun. A stomp fest one way or another.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    That kind of matching happens because the MMR matches teams based on the AVERAGE rank of everybody in the team. It’s a ridiculously short sighted solution to reduce queue times, with disastrous results.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2021

    Well perhaps they could add an optional toggle for those that want the average closer to their own so they can sit in longer queue times to get the groups that they want while everyone else can continue getting more frequent groups.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Coming from league, this is just how team games work. Your rating isn't a measure of how mechanically skilled you are in comparison to everyone else. It's a measure of how skilled you are and how capable you are at working as a team. A great player can win their 1v1's and occasional 1v2s, consistently grab most top stats, and know when and where they should rotate under ideal scenarios.

    The best players know how to do all of that while also adapting to 4 other unpredictabale players on their team. This means keeping your cool and making the best of a bad situation when someone inevitably spawns and runs mid into a 1v4 and dies. This means not wasting precious mental energy that could be spent strategizing on critiquing the gameplay of your warrior who's losing sides to a build he should counter.

    ...Of course all of this falls flat when Anet allows bots and wintrades to exist.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    So you don't want to get punished because you're the best player in that matchup? What?

    Shocking concept isn't it?

    The shocking part is that you'd suggest something like this with a straight face. This feels like a rich person lobbying for tax exemption...
    "My gardener payed 20K in taxes this year, why do I have to pay 10 times as much? We should both be paying 20K, aren't we equals as humans?"

    My point is if you're the best player in the swamp of baddies, you are meant to hard carry your matches. There are not enough opponents on your level, so you're put in matches several tiers below you. And to average things out, the best and the worst likely gets in the same team. This is what it's like to be a high rated player in a dying PvP scene.

    I'm not saying it's good that things turned out this way, but there is 0% chance for any of this to change so there is no point of making entitled demands at this company. They are working on EoD and they don't seem to have time to care about things like PvP.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2021

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    So you don't want to get punished because you're the best player in that matchup? What?

    Shocking concept isn't it?

    The shocking part is that you'd suggest something like this with a straight face. This feels like a rich person lobbying for tax exemption...
    "My gardener payed 20K in taxes this year, why do I have to pay 10 times as much? We should both be paying 20K, aren't we equals as humans?"

    My point is if you're the best player in the swamp of baddies, you are meant to hard carry your matches. There are not enough opponents on your level, so you're put in matches several tiers below you. And to average things out, the best and the worst likely gets in the same team. This is what it's like to be a high rated player in a dying PvP scene.

    I'm not saying it's good that things turned out this way, but there is 0% chance for any of this to change so there is no point of making entitled demands at this company. They are working on EoD and they don't seem to have time to care about things like PvP.

    You have five players on the a team. There will always be someone who is the best whether they're all terrible or not. Besides what one thinks makes them the best may in fact be false as they could have not contributed as much towards winning the match as others.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    So you don't want to get punished because you're the best player in that matchup? What?

    Shocking concept isn't it?

    The shocking part is that you'd suggest something like this with a straight face. This feels like a rich person lobbying for tax exemption...
    "My gardener payed 20K in taxes this year, why do I have to pay 10 times as much? We should both be paying 20K, aren't we equals as humans?"

    The only shocking part I see is fanbois defending a clearly flawed system that’s driving players away, and justifying it by the “work” being done on EoD.

    Also, you were misinformed on how a flat tax rate works.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    There should be no reason why I get every top stat in my team, and yet my team loses the match 500:499 because the match up was kitten. And then I have to pay for what the matching system did by losing 18 rank points. Any one with half a brain can see this is a kitten system all together.
    Either fix your matching system, or stop rank point penalties for losing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

    /endrant

    So you don't want to get punished because you're the best player in that matchup? What?

    Shocking concept isn't it?

    The shocking part is that you'd suggest something like this with a straight face. This feels like a rich person lobbying for tax exemption...
    "My gardener payed 20K in taxes this year, why do I have to pay 10 times as much? We should both be paying 20K, aren't we equals as humans?"

    The only shocking part I see is fanbois defending a clearly flawed system that’s driving players away, and justifying it by the “work” being done on EoD.

    Also, you were misinformed on how a flat tax rate works.

    I was always fascinated by people who think that mentioning an objective fact means agreement or endorsement. They are working on a new X-pac and are neglecting everything else because of it... how do we get from here to "and I think its okay that they are doing so"?
    I'm pretty sure you're aware you're making straw man, so why are you doing this?

    About the original rant, the "problems" of the system: I've seen none of which can't be explained by low population. Platinum players being put into high silver/low gold matches after 6-7 minutes of waiting is not something that can be fixed with your suggestion.

    Also it would just create a way to minimalise your losses even though you're throwing the game. Farming top offense/damage/healing is pretty easy if you tunnel-vision the enemy support on mid. You're absolutely useless, but you'll have 3+ topstats at the end if you manage not to die a lot.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2021

    Defending a flawed system doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with it. You are putting words in my mouth there which is the definition of the straw man fallacy. Now that’s an objective fact.

    Having the system as is will continue to drive players away ( as evident by how low the current population is), and would make the already very low pvp population problem even worse. How is preventing further decline in the population not helpful?

    And yes I’ll take long queue times over faster one sided matches any day.

    Final thought: if the top stats are so worthless and yet they announce them at the end of each match and make them part of the dailies, then they need to rework what constitutes top stats.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2021

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    Defending a flawed system doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with it. You are putting words in my mouth there which is the definition of the straw man fallacy. Now that’s an objective fact.

    What I wrote is just rephrasing of what you've said. You tagged my comment then talked about "fanboys defending a flawed system". You conveniently do not tag what you're answering to now, but I get it, shifting the goalposts is hard work. Obviously you don't want those contradicitons right next to each other.

    Having the system as is will continue to drive players away ( as evident by how low the current population is), and would make the already very low pvp population problem even worse. How is preventing further decline in the population not helpful?

    Preventing further decline would be nice. Now only if you'd present something that would do that!

    And yes I’ll take long queue times over faster one sided matches any day.

    Most of us wouldn't. If the queue becomes too long I'm just not going to bother. 6-7 minutes is already pushing it. I'm here to play, not to wait.

    Final thought: if the top stats are so worthless and yet they announce them at the end of each match and make them part of the dailies, then they need to rework what constitutes top stats.

    The topstats are just there for those who like statistics. Things like healing yourself after making a mistake can be measured, kiting and not taking said damage can't. If you want to base any mechanic (like a rating loss dampener) around topstats, at first you'd have to suggest some metrics to be measured that do correlate with contribution to your teams victory. There were numerous attempts to come up with something, you could be first to succeed.

    This is how your OP looked to me at first read: "I don't wanna lose rating for losing matches REEEEEE". And guess what, after engaging with you for a while it still looks like that. You can rant and let the steam out without suggesting things that would ruin the gamemode.

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    you know what would be cool, is if they introduced mechanics into the algorithm that attempted to balance things out. one example is that if you go on a 5 game losing streak, you get a team next match that is slightly biased for you to win. not by much, and possibly increase it each game after. same thing but reverse if you go on winning streaks. they might already do this idk. people mention top stats often, although they don't mean much in reality most times. that said, i don't think it would be too much of a big deal if you are set to lose -15 or over, for every top stat you get this goes down by one.

    i'm sure there are other examples, but the point is to create a more level playing field without too much hand holding.

    You'll be the victim of that system as often as you benefit from it. The current system already accounts for this by utilizing your rating. That is to say that if you drop 20 rating points, there is now a slight bias in the calculation favoring a less difficult matchup for you relative to your previously higher rating. If you go on a big losing streak you will inevitably begin to see more favorable matchups.

    The issue is low population. You aren't getting good matches because there are nowhere near enough people available in each rating tier to make that consistently possible. What you suggest isn't feasible and it also doesn't address the underlying issue.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the rating range between team mates is not strict enough

    blame mom and population

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
    Fun Daredevil

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2021

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    Defending a flawed system doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with it. You are putting words in my mouth there which is the definition of the straw man fallacy. Now that’s an objective fact.

    What I wrote is just rephrasing of what you've said. You tagged my comment then talked about "fanboys defending a flawed system". You conveniently do not tag what you're answering to now, but I get it, shifting the goalposts is hard work. Obviously you don't want those contradicitons right next to each other.

    Having the system as is will continue to drive players away ( as evident by how low the current population is), and would make the already very low pvp population problem even worse. How is preventing further decline in the population not helpful?

    Preventing further decline would be nice. Now only if you'd present something that would do that!

    And yes I’ll take long queue times over faster one sided matches any day.

    Most of us wouldn't. If the queue becomes too long I'm just not going to bother. 6-7 minutes is already pushing it. I'm here to play, not to wait.

    Final thought: if the top stats are so worthless and yet they announce them at the end of each match and make them part of the dailies, then they need to rework what constitutes top stats.

    The topstats are just there for those who like statistics. Things like healing yourself after making a mistake can be measured, kiting and not taking said damage can't. If you want to base any mechanic (like a rating loss dampener) around topstats, at first you'd have to suggest some metrics to be measured that do correlate with contribution to your teams victory. There were numerous attempts to come up with something, you could be first to succeed.

    This is how your OP looked to me at first read: "I don't wanna lose rating for losing matches REEEEEE". And guess what, after engaging with you for a while it still looks like that. You can rant and let the steam out without suggesting things that would ruin the gamemode.

    Simple English continues to be a struggle for you. Defending a system doesn’t mean you’re agreeing with it. Just benefiting from it. Try not to “rephrase“ what I say in the future.

    And fixing what’s causing major frustration among the PVP population to the degree they are quitting the game is what I suggested as a solution to the small PVP population problem. Maybe you should give it a moment to sink in.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2021

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    Defending a flawed system doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with it. You are putting words in my mouth there which is the definition of the straw man fallacy. Now that’s an objective fact.

    What I wrote is just rephrasing of what you've said. You tagged my comment then talked about "fanboys defending a flawed system". You conveniently do not tag what you're answering to now, but I get it, shifting the goalposts is hard work. Obviously you don't want those contradicitons right next to each other.

    Having the system as is will continue to drive players away ( as evident by how low the current population is), and would make the already very low pvp population problem even worse. How is preventing further decline in the population not helpful?

    Preventing further decline would be nice. Now only if you'd present something that would do that!

    And yes I’ll take long queue times over faster one sided matches any day.

    Most of us wouldn't. If the queue becomes too long I'm just not going to bother. 6-7 minutes is already pushing it. I'm here to play, not to wait.

    Final thought: if the top stats are so worthless and yet they announce them at the end of each match and make them part of the dailies, then they need to rework what constitutes top stats.

    The topstats are just there for those who like statistics. Things like healing yourself after making a mistake can be measured, kiting and not taking said damage can't. If you want to base any mechanic (like a rating loss dampener) around topstats, at first you'd have to suggest some metrics to be measured that do correlate with contribution to your teams victory. There were numerous attempts to come up with something, you could be first to succeed.

    This is how your OP looked to me at first read: "I don't wanna lose rating for losing matches REEEEEE". And guess what, after engaging with you for a while it still looks like that. You can rant and let the steam out without suggesting things that would ruin the gamemode.

    Simple English continues to be a struggle for you. Defending a system doesn’t mean you’re agreeing with it. Just benefiting from it. Try not to “rephrase“ what I say in the future.

    As if there is a way to benefit from the current matchmaking... mind you I'm plat 2 who's forced to hardcarry and have a surreal winrate to climb any further. Your simple english is indeed "continues to be a struggle" for me.

    And fixing what’s causing major frustration among the PVP population to the degree they are quitting the game is what I suggested as a solution to the small PVP population problem. Maybe you should give it a moment to sink in.

    Maybe that was your intention, but as I detailed it above, it's easy to get most topstats while throwing the game. Therefore your suggestion can not work. Maybe give it a moment to sink in.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2021

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    Defending a flawed system doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with it. You are putting words in my mouth there which is the definition of the straw man fallacy. Now that’s an objective fact.

    What I wrote is just rephrasing of what you've said. You tagged my comment then talked about "fanboys defending a flawed system". You conveniently do not tag what you're answering to now, but I get it, shifting the goalposts is hard work. Obviously you don't want those contradicitons right next to each other.

    Having the system as is will continue to drive players away ( as evident by how low the current population is), and would make the already very low pvp population problem even worse. How is preventing further decline in the population not helpful?

    Preventing further decline would be nice. Now only if you'd present something that would do that!

    And yes I’ll take long queue times over faster one sided matches any day.

    Most of us wouldn't. If the queue becomes too long I'm just not going to bother. 6-7 minutes is already pushing it. I'm here to play, not to wait.

    Final thought: if the top stats are so worthless and yet they announce them at the end of each match and make them part of the dailies, then they need to rework what constitutes top stats.

    The topstats are just there for those who like statistics. Things like healing yourself after making a mistake can be measured, kiting and not taking said damage can't. If you want to base any mechanic (like a rating loss dampener) around topstats, at first you'd have to suggest some metrics to be measured that do correlate with contribution to your teams victory. There were numerous attempts to come up with something, you could be first to succeed.

    This is how your OP looked to me at first read: "I don't wanna lose rating for losing matches REEEEEE". And guess what, after engaging with you for a while it still looks like that. You can rant and let the steam out without suggesting things that would ruin the gamemode.

    Simple English continues to be a struggle for you. Defending a system doesn’t mean you’re agreeing with it. Just benefiting from it. Try not to “rephrase“ what I say in the future.

    As if there is a way to benefit from the current matchmaking... mind you I'm plat 2 who's forced to hardcarry and have a surreal winrate to climb any further. Your simple english is indeed "continues to be a struggle" for me.

    And fixing what’s causing major frustration among the PVP population to the degree they are quitting the game is what I suggested as a solution to the small PVP population problem. Maybe you should give it a moment to sink in.

    Maybe that was your intention, but as I detailed it above, it's easy to get most topstats while throwing the game. Therefore your suggestion can not work. Maybe give it a moment to sink in.

    Again, you avoid responding to the point that you misquoted me to create a strawman defense. Defending a system does not mean agreeing with it. And you gave no valid argument against why reducing player frustration to retain a bigger PvP population is not going to work. The current system literally discourages people from playing out of fear they may lose an ungodly amount of rank points if the MMR decides to put them in the wrong team.

    Unless you have an actual counter point to make, you should probably give it a rest.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    Defending a flawed system doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with it. You are putting words in my mouth there which is the definition of the straw man fallacy. Now that’s an objective fact.

    What I wrote is just rephrasing of what you've said. You tagged my comment then talked about "fanboys defending a flawed system". You conveniently do not tag what you're answering to now, but I get it, shifting the goalposts is hard work. Obviously you don't want those contradicitons right next to each other.

    Having the system as is will continue to drive players away ( as evident by how low the current population is), and would make the already very low pvp population problem even worse. How is preventing further decline in the population not helpful?

    Preventing further decline would be nice. Now only if you'd present something that would do that!

    And yes I’ll take long queue times over faster one sided matches any day.

    Most of us wouldn't. If the queue becomes too long I'm just not going to bother. 6-7 minutes is already pushing it. I'm here to play, not to wait.

    Final thought: if the top stats are so worthless and yet they announce them at the end of each match and make them part of the dailies, then they need to rework what constitutes top stats.

    The topstats are just there for those who like statistics. Things like healing yourself after making a mistake can be measured, kiting and not taking said damage can't. If you want to base any mechanic (like a rating loss dampener) around topstats, at first you'd have to suggest some metrics to be measured that do correlate with contribution to your teams victory. There were numerous attempts to come up with something, you could be first to succeed.

    This is how your OP looked to me at first read: "I don't wanna lose rating for losing matches REEEEEE". And guess what, after engaging with you for a while it still looks like that. You can rant and let the steam out without suggesting things that would ruin the gamemode.

    Simple English continues to be a struggle for you. Defending a system doesn’t mean you’re agreeing with it. Just benefiting from it. Try not to “rephrase“ what I say in the future.

    As if there is a way to benefit from the current matchmaking... mind you I'm plat 2 who's forced to hardcarry and have a surreal winrate to climb any further. Your simple english is indeed "continues to be a struggle" for me.

    And fixing what’s causing major frustration among the PVP population to the degree they are quitting the game is what I suggested as a solution to the small PVP population problem. Maybe you should give it a moment to sink in.

    Maybe that was your intention, but as I detailed it above, it's easy to get most topstats while throwing the game. Therefore your suggestion can not work. Maybe give it a moment to sink in.

    Again, you avoid responding to the point that you misquoted me to create a strawman defense. Defending a system does not mean agreeing with it.

    You can hardly be a "fanboy" of something you disagree with. I mean... maybe YOU can, I can't. You're not making sense here. Just admit you misspoke lol.

    And you gave no valid argument against why reducing player frustration to retain a bigger PvP population is not going to work.

    We were talking about your suggestion, not reducing player frustration. Why would I be against reducing player frustration?
    Soon you'll have enough strawmen to keep local crops safe just on your own.

    The current system literally discourages people from playing out of fear they may lose an ungodly amount of rank points if the MMR decides to put them in the wrong team.

    Yes, that harsh punishment is what supposed to motivate you not to lose. If you are actually demotivated by that, there are many other things you can do with your time.
    I myself are not getting 120 games in during ranked seasons lately either. Lack of players or balance patches make the game unappealing.

    Unless you have an actual counter point to make, you should probably give it a rest.

    Whatever you do, do not scroll back, do not read the previous posts I've made. Because then you saying this would look really silly.
    I mean what can I do, after making my point you just go "you made no point though"... I'm not going to type it out again. If you actually want to engage with it, it's there. Was fun talking to you, gonna stop responding to this though.