Torch 5 [Oppressive Collapse] - any plans for wvw fixes?

For a few weeks now (not sure if overlooked or just no one wanted to mention this), but torch 5 hits enemies wherever they are on walls - doesn't matter if the enemy is in line of sight or not. This even works behind gates. I'm guessing this is because the skill appears at the bottom of enemies feet. Pretty easy kills if you just put a shade up there and hit them with it and finish off with oppressive collapse. Have fun before it gets fixed ;) unless this is intended.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

I agree. Scourge torch 5 is broken weird.

1) In Mad King's Labyrinth I have been able to use it on monsters around the corner and on the other side of walls. So having no line of sight requirement can be too much of an advantage.

2) Ironically, if you're not facing your target's direction (target behind or to the side) you get an error saying you can't use it because of no line of sight.

3) The tooltip for scourge torch 5 says "if they remain in the area, they will be knocked down". The problem is the knockdown is pretty much instantaneous, making it difficult for players to dodge to avoid it. Add the near instant knockdown to being able to use it on targets on the other side of walls and gates, and you really got an advantage in WvW.

Suggested changes: it should not allow you to use it if targets are blocked or obstructed by the environment, and the knockdown should have a delay of at least 1 second to give players a chance to avoid it.

@Lahmia.2193 said:It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Thinking about it some more, maybe you're on to something.

By itself, scourge torch 5 isn't enough to cause too much damage to another player. But with it's quick knockdown, it's more than enough to interrupt someone on the other side making repairs. Even if a player in the middle of repairs moves to cancel their action, they won't be able to dodge in time to avoid the knockdown due to the delay in cancelling their repair action.

Maybe this skill was meant as a means to prevent players protecting a castle/tower with max supply reserves from keeping the walls repaired, thus dragging out the battle for long periods of time? It can take forever. Usually zergs keep pushing until eventually the enemy runs out of supply and they can bust through, which forces the enemy to actually engage. I've been there many times, both attacking and defending. Either way it takes a long time for the battle to end if there's plenty supply and enough players making repairs.

@Charrbeque.8729 said:I agree. Scourge torch 5 is broken weird.3) The tooltip for scourge torch 5 says "if they remain in the area, they will be knocked down". The problem is the knockdown is pretty much instantaneous, making it difficult for players to dodge to avoid it. Add the near instant knockdown to being able to use it on targets on the other side of walls and gates, and you really got an advantage in WvW.Suggested changes: it should not allow you to use it if targets are blocked or obstructed by the environment, and the knockdown should have a delay of at least 1 second to give players a chance to avoid it.

Not sure what you are thinking, but Torch 5 misses all the time. If your target is not pretty much standing still they can easily avoid it. Just running in a strait line lets them avoid it most of the time with no dodge needed. As far as being able to target things with no line of site there are plenty of skills that can strike a target with no direct line of site on them. With the slow recast If you managed to kill someone with it they are either an idiot or possibly sleeping at the keyboard.

There are also many skills from many different classes that can hit targets through doors as well.

Do you really think they would have gone out of their way to design a single skill to be used specifically to prevent that problem from happening, on a single elite spec no less?

@Laiboch.4380 said:Not sure what you are thinking, but Torch 5 misses all the time. If your target is not pretty much standing still they can easily avoid it. Just running in a strait line lets them avoid it most of the time with no dodge needed. As far as being able to target things with no line of site there are plenty of skills that can strike a target with no direct line of site on them. With the slow recast If you managed to kill someone with it they are either an idiot or possibly sleeping at the keyboard.

There are also many skills from many different classes that can hit targets through doors as well.The best thing about it I suppose is that people on the wall don't expect it so it will hit them. They think that standing on the other side of the lip of the wall will protect them, then I see them frantically jumping down when it's too late resulting in either downed or death. I don't think it would be much of an issue in pvp as it is in wvw though. In normal fighting situations where you're face to face with the enemy I have to agree though, you have to time it right to land (at least in my cases) - the issues are only on walls and obstacles that it can bypass.

Oppressive collapse seems to be a bit buggy with it's line of sight imo. Sometimes I can hit stuff with it even if the thing I'm attacking is in a weird place. Other times, my line of sight gets blocked by the tiniest of pebbles.

Torch 5 cant hit anyone that actualy moves lol..... people outright can walk out of it before it activates....

lets not nerf it to uselessness... atleast it can be used to knock those pesky siege campers on arrowcarts on the other side of the walls....

outside of that the ability is trash tier..... if they "bug fix" it they better just redesign the ability.....

@Laiboch.4380 said:

@Charrbeque.8729 said:I agree. Scourge torch 5 is

broken

weird.3) The tooltip for scourge torch 5 says "if they remain in the area, they will be knocked down". The problem is the knockdown is pretty much instantaneous, making it difficult for players to dodge to avoid it. Add the near instant knockdown to being able to use it on targets on the other side of walls and gates, and you really got an advantage in WvW.Suggested changes: it should not allow you to use it if targets are blocked or obstructed by the environment, and the knockdown should have a delay of at least 1 second to give players a chance to avoid it.

It seems to cause knockdown on NPCs all the time, even if they're moving. But then again NPCs are total noobs anyway and >not smart< to walk out of small circles.

Edit: Seriously? The word "d.u.m.b." turns into "kitten"?

I swear their profanity filter is too draconian. Can't even reference the lack of intelligence of NPCs without being censored.

@Charrbeque.8729 said:3) The tooltip for scourge torch 5 says "if they remain in the area, they will be knocked down". The problem is the knockdown is pretty much instantaneous, making it difficult for players to dodge to avoid it. Add the near instant knockdown to being able to use it on targets on the other side of walls and gates, and you really got an advantage in WvW.I face scourge all the time in WvW, it's pretty easy to dodge, as it's not instantaneous.

why it should be a bug? the effect follow exactly the description:

Corrupt the ground under your target; if they remain within the area, they will be knocked down. Grant might to allies near your target based on how many conditions they have.

if i can target someone, i can hit him. the radius of this skill is very low and you cannot activate it if enemy is outside of 900 range to you. so this skill i already heavy limited on using. AND has a very high cooldown.

idk where your problem is. this skill is good as it is and i think there are tonnes of skills on all classes that needs a nerf before we start to talk about torch 5.

my problem is that i dont get might in many situations when i hit the enemies ( and they have conditions).

@Zero.3871 said:why it should be a bug? the effect follow exactly the description:

Corrupt the ground under your target; if they remain within the area, they will be knocked down. Grant might to allies near your target based on how many conditions they have.

if i can target someone, i can hit him. the radius of this skill is very low and you cannot activate it if enemy is outside of 900 range to you. so this skill i already heavy limited on using. AND has a very high cooldown.

idk where your problem is. this skill is good as it is and i think there are tonnes of skills on all classes that needs a nerf before we start to talk about torch 5.

my problem is that i dont get might in many situations when i hit the enemies ( and they have conditions).

The problem that we were discussing lies in the situation (in wvw) where an enemy can be hit whereever they are on the wall and behind gates without the need of line of sight. If what you said were applied freely across all class skills, I think the end of the Tyria will come if we can target and hit people out of line of sight :open_mouth:All it would need is to require line of sight, nothing else has to change for it.

And we talk about hitting ONE target. Not 5 or more. I do not see any problems. Most real players have stability all the time.

The problem isn't about hitting one or five targets. I think people have misunderstood.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Zero.3871 said:why it should be a bug? the effect follow exactly the description:

Corrupt the ground under your target; if they remain within the area, they will be knocked down. Grant might to allies near your target based on how many conditions they have.

if i can target someone, i can hit him

. the radius of this skill is very low and you cannot activate it if enemy is outside of 900 range to you. so this skill i already heavy limited on using. AND has a very high cooldown.

idk where your problem is. this skill is good as it is and i think there are tonnes of skills on all classes that needs a nerf before we start to talk about torch 5.

my problem is that i dont get might in many situations when i hit the enemies ( and they have conditions).

yeah , but i think its a legit part of the skill. for example, guardians staff skill 5 don't need a line of sight, too. you can cast that behind doors.

Meanwhile, in PVE, the same skill constantly fails applying might, targetting enemies, or working at all.

Just fix the skill EVERYWHERE.

It's not really a targeted spell, that is to say it's an AOE that you put down on the ground, it does not need to auto target.Since you're corrupting the ground it makes sense both from a lore and mechanics standpoint that it can hit on and behind walls, you're not throwing something at the wall that the wall can block, you're targeting the surface of the actual wall and ground on both sides.

Not a bug, just an undocumented creature.

as someone else said, yeah the skill fails to apply might a lot of the times. what i found to work is to not queue other skills and let the aftercast go off naturally, but even then not always works.

This skill fails to cast way too often.

OT Odd thing: Scourge utilities apply conditions/boon hate on nearby enemies, yet all weapons for a feasible scourge build are ranged.iow. you must be into close combat , but close combat weapons are ..power base.. (no synergy at all)Then you have the f1 ranged ground target cast.... with f2-3-4 for nearby enemies/friends

At what point do weapons just become stat boosting items?& Why can't we have nice things? :)

I say: Allow GS to be equipped without traits on scourge.Add bleeds to dagger and maybe let it interact with corruption/scourge traits (Scourge dmg on critical?)Remove/rework blood and death lines.Move Torch to main?

But that's just me.I recently got incinerator and wanna use it again. o/