Mad As a March Hare: Nerfing What We Pay For Till We Go Back to Playing Vanilla

In a Raiding Group:

"How will you counteract the latest nerfs? What builds will we use?""Uhm.. play core Guardian?"

Dear Arenanet Team,

1. Stop. Nerfing. Every. Build. You. Make. Us. Pay. For. Stop making us pay for builds you are going to nerf anyway.
2. Stop trying to revive skills that nobody uses. You are tuning down damage and jacking up defence overall.
3. Players are not raid bosses: the theory of less damage= longer fights= more people in-game for a longer time= more selling power at shareholder meetings is missing one little point: players are living beings that have a limit in how long they can carry a fight. Unless profoundly patient and skilled to an insane level. I want to meet those guys, if they exist. Teach me, Si-Fu!
4. DEBUG every new thing you put out there BEFORE you launch it. I had to start restart restart restart restart restart -you like this repetition? No? It's what your update has been giving me, enjoy: restart, restart, restart,..
5. DEBUG the BASE CODE and UPGRADE YOUR SERVER SPEED AND CAPACITY INSTEAD OF THROWING OUT NEW MAPS TO APPEASE THE GODS OF BOREDOM.
6. Tyria proper is DYING. I haven't touched the original maps in forever, and only to farm. You have made your own startup promise nightmares come true.
7. Invest in WvW. If you have servers strong and fast enough to carry WvW full squad fights with all the tinsel costumes in full glitter, you can carry everything and everyone else.
8. I am never buying another expansion again, unless the story is insanely good and people are crying or laughing their hearts out, and that only up to whatever blockbuster movie ticket costs. You will only nerf the builds in less than six months of their release.
9. Oh, and don't stream WvW in public unless you want to be wiped.

You throw out something new, and, people, being powerfully imaginative and opportunistic beings, find ways to use them to the maximum, which goes beyond what your team draughted in their meeting rooms. 'Noo!' you say. 'Let's make life more interesting by making fights last longer.'Er, note: an opposing player is not a raid boss. Patience and life schedules can only carry so much, and short, sharp fights are no less interesting a lesson in the way of the Tyrian.If your idea is to keep people playing by making fights longer via decreasing damage, I will play less because it is more of a grind. Without the lusciousness. Unless I am out scouting and need to troll other players by keeping them busy 1vs5.

Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Hear Ye!03/27/2018 - March 27th Release Note

ElementalistGlassier than ever thanks to increased cooldowns. Keep playing if you know how to keep moving.

EngineerNo longer valid for combat, PvP or WvW.Shelve it unless hardcore fan.

GuardianThanks for all the passive Tome skill bug fixes.Epilogue: Eternal Oasis: Reduced the bonus-heal effectiveness from 33% to 20% in PvP and WvW.Why, thank you!Chapter 2: Radiant Recovery: Reduced the healing power coefficient per condition cleansed by 35% in PvP and WvW.Yup, needed that.Chapter 1: Desert Bloom: Reduced healing by 17% in PvP and WvW.Oh, totally needed that.Signet of Resolve: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.Signet of what, now?Leap of Faith: Increased damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.Believe it-tebayo!

Signet of Mercy: **SKILLS**Sword of Justice: **I**Bow of Truth: **NEVER**Hammer of Wisdom: **USE**"Feel My Wrath!": Useless in a ZergZealous Blade: Retaliation, much?

MesmerThanks for the bug fixes.Illusion of Life: Very necessary skill in combat. Other trait and skill nerfs.Shelve and use only for portal-entre or cheerleading in frills as support.

NecromancerScourge (Profession): R. I. P. Go Vanilla.

RangerWhy does this class even exist? Deleted my Druid.Nowhere in any game I have come across is there a ranger class worthy, durable, mobile and powerful enough to reflect that Master Ranger, that Aragorn Son of Arathorn.

RevenantI don't know nor play this class. Felt too stifled. Keeping it as a Rytlock tribute.

ThiefLament, grieve, and mourn your Thieves, O Tyria!

Potent Poison: Fixed a bug that prevented this trait from applying the extra poison stack to Deadeye's Mark.XDDD We had such a thing? Pity I was going Daredevil.Binding Shadow: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to knock down for longer than its listed value.That is sad and funny at the same time. Poor people.Sword Autoattack: Reduced damage by 14% overall in PvP and WvW.Because Caithe is no longer a thing?Roll for Initiative: Increased the cooldown from 35 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW.Cloak and Dagger: Reduced the initiative cost from 6 to 5 in PvP and WvW.Very nice of you, thank you. Why thisDagger Autoattack: Reduced damage by 15% overall in PvP and WvW., then?Signet of Shadows: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.Because blindness is a thing and people don't condi-cleanse.Assassin's Signet: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.Ooo! Nice. So Vanilla!Smoke Screen: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW.Fear my stealthed Zerg! Yarr!Dagger Storm: Reduced the cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP and WvW.Because we use it.Hide in Shadows: Increased the base healing by 15% in PvP and WvW.Skelk Venom: Increased the venom healing per hit by 25% in PvP and WvW.Useless changes to useless skills, then you have great improvements to core traits like:Larcenous Strike: Reduced damage by 15% in PvP and WvW.Pulmonary Impact: Reduced damage by 29% in PvP and WvW.Upper Hand: Increased the cooldown from 3 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW.Panic Strike: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW. The WvW version of this trait will now use the PvP immobilize duration of 1.5 seconds.Instant Reflexes: Increased the cooldown from 40 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.Pain Response: Increased the cooldown from 16 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.Hard to Catch: Increased the cooldown from 45 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.Swindler's Equilibrium: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.

The only thing going for the uber-glassy Thief is DAMAGE.Thief is shackled, ladies and gentlemen. Train yourselves accordingly.

Warrior

Weakest warrior in MMOdom gets muffled further. Nerfed unless you want to kick people and things in the face, and often: knockback skill cooldowns reduced, as if people don't have boons and boonsharers.

Battle Standard: Reduced the cooldown from 240 seconds to 180 seconds in PvP and WvW.Because you're a nurse in platemail.Crushing Blow: Increased damage by 25% in PvP and WvW.Trying to make Mace look cool. Is this a farming trap for another upcoming weapon?Tremor: Increased knockdown duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW.Sword Autoattack: Increased overall damage by 22% in PvP and WvW.Flurry: Increased damage by 71% in PvP and WvW.Savage Leap: Increased damage by 33% in PvP and WvW.Flaming Flurry: Increased damage by 92% in PvP and WvW.Provided you can get close enough to begin with."To the Limit!": Increased endurance granted from 50 to 100 in PvP and WvW.Roll, baby roll.Blood Reckoning: Increased damage-to-healing conversion from 20% to 25% in PvP and WvW. Increased adrenaline gained from 10 to 30 in PvP and WvW.('Eye of the Tiger Soundtrack here)"On My Mark!": Adjusted vulnerability applied from 10 stacks for 10 seconds to 15 stacks for 6 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced ammo recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW."For Great Justice!": Adjusted might granted from 6 stacks for 25 seconds to 12 stacks for 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.Thank you for this."Shake It Off!": Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 2 to 3 in PvP and WvW.And this.

Defy Pain: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.Last Stand: Increased the cooldown from 40 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.Shrug It Off: Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.Dead or Alive: Increased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.Warrior goes full glass.

Elite Specs were never meant to be direct upgrades to the class but rather more optionsif you seriously whine that core specs are viable then you are every wrong with the balance in this game

@Kasdwer.3721 said:if you seriously whine that core specs are viable then you are every wrong with the balance in this gameI think they are. Elaborate why not, while dropping the insults. Willing to learn.

okay since we are talking about pvp, the problem is simple:powercreepif you want to make every new elite spec stronger than the last one and core, it will just increase the powercreepwhat will the consenquences be?everything will either be oneshot or tanky enough that its unkillablejust like it was at release at pofdo you really want that? unkillable fb and spellbreaker while scourges kill everything in 1 touch

thats why you need to have elite specs that give more options, but not direct upgrades

So ... can't tell if your post is serious or not. Meaning, if you want to be taken seriously, you better tone down the sarcasm.

Oh, and making your post readable is a good start too.

@"Obtena.7952" said:So ... can't tell if your post is serious or not. Meaning, if you want to be taken seriously, you better tone down the sarcasm.

Oh, and making your post readable is a good start too.

he is right my friend, this game is getting more and more ridiculous each patch, let me explain WHY based on my 11.000 hours of Gw and many more in other MMO.

You CAN NOT balance a game NERFING every patch something beacouse you get to the point you only have "Benny Hill" classes around and NOONE like underpowered classes, EVERYONE WILL JUST KEEP PLAYING THE MORE OP CLASS AVAIBLE. Got it? it is supposed to be "competitive" that is how competitive works.

This mean noone is going to drop optimal WvW/PvP classes/skills even if nerfed for not optimal but boosted classes/skills.

Please let me know when you see an ele in WvW with the Scepter or when you see a Warrior drop a nerfed Winds of Desenchantment for a buffed Rrrrrrampage.And so on....

That is all folks!, C u next patch.

Have fun. (if you can)

to be more accurate, this patch is just another useless one, nothing will change beacouse this is NOT THE WAY TO BALANCE A GAME, you do not nerf skills/classes but you give classes a way to handle OP ones. For example, if Condi is an issue you do not nerf condi, you do increase cleanse. If ppl complain for 10k aoe Ravenant hammer hit you do not nerf the hammer skill you do give ppl a way to handle it.

BEACOUSE IF YOU KEEP NERFING AND PPL KEEP PLAYING THE MORE BROKEN THING YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE TO NERF SOMETHING.

Keep going this way and will see where we go.

With the amazing amount of power creep the game has had, I'd rather see elite specs nerfed down to core levels.

Like that will ever happen.

@"ilmau.9781" said:

BEACOUSE IF YOU KEEP NERFING AND PPL KEEP PLAYING THE MORE BROKEN THING YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE TO NERF SOMETHING.

Wouldn't this go the other way too? "if you keep buffing than everyone will keep playing the next broken thing, you will always have to buff something". This is called powercreep.

@ilmau.9781 said:to be more accurate, this patch is just another useless one, nothing will change beacouse this is NOT THE WAY TO BALANCE A GAME, you do not nerf skills/classes but you give classes a way to handle OP ones. For example, if Condi is an issue you do not nerf condi, you do increase cleanse. If ppl complain for 10k aoe Ravenant hammer hit you do not nerf the hammer skill you do give ppl a way to handle it.

BEACOUSE IF YOU KEEP NERFING AND PPL KEEP PLAYING THE MORE BROKEN THING YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE TO NERF SOMETHING.

Keep going this way and will see where we go.this is actually the most ridiculous claim ive ever heard in any game everif you buff things instead of nerfing you will just have a clown fiesta where everything instantly happens without much reaction timealso why in the hell would you, lets just say buff 8 classes instead of nerfing 1 when its clearly too strong? it doesnt even make sense at alland why do you say that nerfing things would just make them reroll to something else? that same thing also happens when you buff things, i dont see a difference

@Kasdwer.3721 said:okay since we are talking about pvp, the problem is simple:powercreepif you want to make every new elite spec stronger than the last one and core, it will just increase the powercreepwhat will the consenquences be?everything will either be oneshot or tanky enough that its unkillablejust like it was at release at pofdo you really want that? unkillable fb and spellbreaker while scourges kill everything in 1 touch

thats why you need to have elite specs that give more options, but not direct upgrades

... So we take away the ONE thing thieves had left over the other classes... Because power creeps.

So we dunk engie in the trash... Because power creeps.

And we make Mesmers broken as shit and barely tone them down... Because power creeps.

@ilmau.9781 said:to be more accurate, this patch is just another useless one, nothing will change beacouse this is NOT THE WAY TO BALANCE A GAME, you do not nerf skills/classes but you give classes a way to handle OP ones. For example, if Condi is an issue you do not nerf condi, you do increase cleanse. If ppl complain for 10k aoe Ravenant hammer hit you do not nerf the hammer skill you do give ppl a way to handle it.

BEACOUSE IF YOU KEEP NERFING AND PPL KEEP PLAYING THE MORE BROKEN THING YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE TO NERF SOMETHING.

Keep going this way and will see where we go.

That's a clear example of how not to balance a game... Making everyone stronger to compensate for something OP is a good way to end up with a fucking mess. Condi wasn't nerfed, it was made into what it was intended to be.

These nerfs and buffs aren't good though in my opinion. It looks like they tried to normalize things, which is a f*cking horrible idea when each class has a playstyle to cater to, and each class has a unique set of utilities, skills, and elites.

@Kasdwer.3721 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:to be more accurate, this patch is just another useless one, nothing will change beacouse this is NOT THE WAY TO BALANCE A GAME, you do not nerf skills/classes but you give classes a way to handle OP ones. For example, if Condi is an issue you do not nerf condi, you do increase cleanse. If ppl complain for 10k aoe Ravenant hammer hit you do not nerf the hammer skill you do give ppl a way to handle it.

BEACOUSE IF YOU KEEP NERFING AND PPL KEEP PLAYING THE MORE BROKEN THING YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE TO NERF SOMETHING.

Keep going this way and will see where we go.this is actually the most ridiculous claim ive ever heard in any game everif you buff things instead of nerfing you will just have a clown fiesta where everything instantly happens without much reaction timealso why in the hell would you, lets just say buff 8 classes instead of nerfing 1 when its clearly too strong? it doesnt even make sense at alland why do you say that nerfing things would just make them reroll to something else? that same thing also happens when you buff things, i dont see a difference

I don't expect much from anyone defending the original post. This support comes, afterall, from someone that believed Anet would revert their changes to LF consumption rates for Reaper shroud. Not a strong display of understanding of the game or its development.

@Kasdwer.3721 said:okay since we are talking about pvp, the problem is simple:powercreepNew term to me. Is this a gradual increment in skill damage/trait damage as the game progresses with each xpac?if you want to make every new elite spec stronger than the last one and core, it will just increase the powercreepAh, okay. Hmm.I want my money's worth.Arenanet promised we would never have to buy an expansion ever again, that the pay-to-win logic is out the window.With each expac, we are asked by the people we run with (WvW) to gear up according to the latest and greatest. Raids are even more demanding in that respect.Thankfully, the way the PoF elites sat beautifully with the HoT gear was wonderful to see. I thought, yes, this is worth it. Paying, then farming for it. All worth it. Everyone insanely strong and each class maxed out. I had never seen engineers in WvW this frequently before. I love engi. Even vanilla engis. They're a walking artillery/bunker/heal unit, and frankly I like the vanilla elite best when fighting vs a siege for ranged AoE.

what will the consenquences be?everything will either be oneshot or tanky enough that its unkillableThe 'unkillable' is a desirable trait in WvW support classes. The oneshot is desirable if able to maintain range or evade the cancer AoEs.do you really want that? unkillable fb and spellbreaker while scourges kill everything in 1 touchYes. And something else to counter them. I personally find pull skills to be interesting. Any CC is good, but maybe we need a new trait that 'breaks a chink in the skill armour' in a sense. Shiro Tagachi, we await your return in full. Cantha, next xpac! Maybe next Spring, till the charm of Elona dies out enough.thats why you need to have elite specs that give more options, but not direct upgradesHmm.Agreed.

@Rhyse.8179 said:With the amazing amount of power creep the game has had, I'd rather see elite specs nerfed down to core levels.

Like that will ever happen.

You know, that would actually be really interesting. Vanilla, HoT and PoF, equal. The core game was insane fun to begin with.Then we would have fewer people buying the xpacs just for story, or are we brave enough to try against the fear that management may complain that people will not buy the game for story.I would.I would also buy to try build variety with an interest, not need to catch up .

@Obtena.7952 said:So ... can't tell if your post is serious or not. Meaning, if you want to be taken seriously, you better tone down the sarcasm.I can't help if imagination can't.It's a state where the situation hurts so much I'm laughing but I can't. Also, there are things that can be appreciated despite the mishaps in the making.I play a supertanky heal firebrand in wvw, where you actually need to farm top gear. Pun unintended. My job is to stay alive and keep others going. They nerfed my heals. Le Ouch.Oh, and making your post readable is a good start too.So is responding to what is written instead of who wrote it.

Change is better than no change, and with all the skills and their requisite calculation and programming, I still say thank you, Team ArenaNet.I sincerely wish you make this one work, because if this will be the pattern, then I will break the cycle by not participating in it.But, here's the thing: if everyone is equal, then nobody wins. 'Equal' and 'balanced' are two different things entirely.Unless it is the player that is playing, and not his build.This is the only justification for a nerf: to bring the player ahead of the mechanism.The question that remains is the economic sustainability of this situation: how are you going to convince the Accounting Department that a game which offers balanced playability from free-to-play till PoF max stats will still sell? Why should I, as a player, pay for what I can get for free?Perhaps the balance itself, if attained, will be the attraction factor.What would really make this game sexy is strong, fast servers. Yum. I'd pay for seamless coding and connection where a 50-man zerg can rush into another at full graphics and not hiccup despite all their skills going off at once.

@"Asumir.1978" said:In a Raiding Group:

"How will you counteract the latest nerfs? What builds will we use?""Uhm.. play core Guardian?"

Dear Arenanet Team,

1. Stop. Nerfing. Every. Build. You. Make. Us. Pay. For.
2. Stop trying to revive skills that nobody uses. You are tuning down damage and jacking up defence overall.

As a WvW player I stopped reading here. It's obvious that you don't fight other players at all. WvW players need damage to be reduced on an unprecedented scale. People are being one-shotted left, right and centre.

laughed of reddit go to the forums

As a WvW player I stopped reading here. It's obvious that you don't fight other players at all. WvW players need damage to be reduced on an unprecedented scale.

I don't. I pick daisies while everyone bleeds it out on the field.I make sure our fighters stay alive.Healing and stability are my bread and butter. If they nerf healing, I don't know how to respond to this. Except maybe sense a tepid satisfaction that the damage nerf thus counterbalances the heal nerf.

People are being one-shotted left, right and centre.Takes me five shots to go down, and that is in a sea of AoEs and CC with 10 people carpeting me. Unless you are talking about roaming fights in glassy builds, which I have not touched in a while. Please Elaborate.

Again, I go back to my original point:Anet touts new expansions with a new elite spec each xpac. Everyone jumps on the OP bandwagon till it gets axed by demands of fair play.Fine.Balance, counterbalance, nerf because necessary, all fine.Just don't take our money for it if it is not going to last.Let them find another reason to get paid.Otherwise this is just an eternal gear grind, with a cycle of 5-6 months per craze.

What do we do now?

@derd.6413 said:laughed of reddit go to the forums

Nope. Parallel posting. And learn to spell.

@ilmau.9781 said:to be more accurate, this patch is just another useless one, nothing will change beacouse this is NOT THE WAY TO BALANCE A GAME, you do not nerf skills/classes but you give classes a way to handle OP ones. For example, if Condi is an issue you do not nerf condi, you do increase cleanse. If ppl complain for 10k aoe Ravenant hammer hit you do not nerf the hammer skill you do give ppl a way to handle it.

BEACOUSE IF YOU KEEP NERFING AND PPL KEEP PLAYING THE MORE BROKEN THING YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE TO NERF SOMETHING.

Keep going this way and will see where we go.

That is NOT how to balance a game. Ever. Making it so that everything is OP to counter another classes OP abilities. It would end up a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. You would have classes that would destroy class A but get destroyed itself by class B.

If Condi is over powered, You nerf the conditions. Not buff the removals. Because, this would just end up nerfing the condi classes that have limited conditions and making these builds unable to kill anything.

Its the creep that needs to be nerfed, but wont be. Look on the bright side. When the new expansion comes all of these specs will get gutted and replaced with a new set of broken specs in a P2Win model.

@Asumir.1978 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Oh, and making your post readable is a good start too.So is responding to what is written instead of who wrote it.

Well, if you made your post readable ... that might have happened. I mean, that's your decision if you want to be taken seriously or not. If you think the chopped up, sarcastic manner that you made your post was the BEST way you could present your ideas of displeasure to Anet, then you must not think very highly of your own ideas in the first place.

The only thing I got from your thread is that you aren't happy. /shrug

@Asumir.1978 said:

@derd.6413 said:laughed of reddit go to the forums

what's the spelling error?

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Asumir.1978 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Oh, and making your post readable is a good start too.So is responding to what is written instead of who wrote it.chopped up, sarcastic mannerRaw reaction. Argh as it came out. Go elsewhere on the forums to read something you like instead of sticking to what you don't.The only thing I got from your thread is that you aren't happy. /shrug

Thank the Six.Extant imagination upgrade pending.