change of raid composition

is viable a full shout + concentration firebrand instead of 2nd chrono so whit the tank 1st chrono they will upkeep all boons? or we need 2 firebrand to fullfill boons at cost of alacrity whit 1 fire tanker?

You can play FB as tank /support but also as tank/healer but he is worse in healing then supporting.FB tank/ healer goes full minstrel as tank/support you could swap 4-5 pieces to harrier for maximum boon duration

So in theory :
In raids 2 chrono 1, druid, 1 BS, 1FB as Healtank and the rest you must find out yourselfAlso In theory you could run with a second FB but you will really run low on heal with this because the second need to swap some pieces to avoid agro ping-pong. Yo could also forcefully put a druid into this group too but this will then cost you a dps slot. You also may consider to get a tempest for pre stacking might.

In Fractals 1 FB , 1 chrono , 1 BS , 1 tempest , and something with a lot of CC ( chrono will not have moa because of time loop)

Edit: What you could also do is the groups which have FB in swap the chronos out for support revs this is something which needs testing

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:You can play FB as tank /support but also as tank/healer but he is worse in healing then supporting.

Not quite sure what you mean with worse at heal then support. A FB healer will heal alot more then a druid, the main problem is the lack of alacrity. But a close to full condi renegate can provide that, so that is less of a problem.

The main question is whether chrono is not just still to strong, from what I have seen so far, it might very well be.

Firebrand and renegade, spiritbeast(soulbeast with spirits kinda like bs) bs there

@Sigfodr.9576 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:You can play FB as tank /support but also as tank/healer but he is worse in healing then supporting.

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Firebrand and renegade, spiritbeast(soulbeast with spirits kinda like bs) bs there

that will be a seriuous problem if the meta group need this 4 mandatory instead of 2 chronos

You'll probably always want 4 mandatory slots now, since every comp has its "problems" with boons now.

Here's different comps / setups that should provide most boons:

2 chrono comps ->

• 2 chrono + 1 druid for short fights is still fine
• 2 chrono + 1 druid + 1 alacrity renegade/harrier tempest for longer fights
• 2 chrono + 1 boonherald (+1 healer)

fb/renegade comps ->

• 1 tank fb (commanders for high precision to procc empowering might or givers with scepter) + 1 harrier fb + 1 harrier renegade
• 2 quickbrands + 1 tank boonherald + 1 harrier renegade

In general Id probably run power BS warrior now pretty much everywhere. The cc is very strong and can compensate the lost chrono cc/less fb+ren cc. The PS trait + reworked former GS-only trait in strength can supply some might especially at the beginning of fights.

Frostspirit is something I wouldnt bother with in pugs anymore. If you have a druid, fine... if you'd rather run with boonherald for better boon uptime, also fine. I wouldnt get hung up on that so much. Especially on fights you move around a lot, or with phases > 1 minute you loose more dps due to missing boons than missing frost spirit.

Whats really missing in fb+ren comps, is actually the focus pull. So you might want to make sure you have enough cleave. Like, for example... a condi scourge ;)

Hope this helps some.

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:In Fractals 1 FB , 1 chrono , 1 BS , 1 tempest , and something with a lot of CC ( chrono will not have moa because of time loop)

Edit: What you could also do is the groups which have FB in swap the chronos out for support revs this is something which needs testing

We tried alacrity renegade+heal fb in fractals yesterday and it was fine after some finetuning. Whats really missing without chrono, is focus pull... ports... skips. So if you want to run with fb/ren comp in fractals... you should think about adding a power chrono. Its really good dps and brings lots of utility... focus pull, boon rip (so your BS can stay warrior for more dps and better cc), skips and ports.

Probably, if you arent into prestacking like my static, you'll have to run a very fixed comp now... fb+ren+bs+power chrono+power slb/dh.

Havent tried boonherald in fractals yet, but it might be a good alternative since you arent reliant on vigor there anyway.

Some additional testing in regards to power BS, you can use dumplings and upkeep around 10 might on it, which could be enough to not need scepter on 2nd fb for might. This wouldnt solve other problems with that comp (missing focus pull, missing vigor) but its at least something to consider.

@Yasi.9065 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:In Fractals 1 FB , 1 chrono , 1 BS , 1 tempest , and something with a lot of CC ( chrono will not have moa because of time loop)

Edit: What you could also do is the groups which have FB in swap the chronos out for support revs this is something which needs testing

I'm planning to drop my chrono from Fractals, but I'll still be tagging her for the skips and such, which are usually at the beginning of the Fractal anyway.

@Astralporing.1957 said:It's not that chrono is too strong. It's that there are no other full support builds, only hybrid x/support ones where support is a secondary feature. A FB that could dedicate all of its build to pure support (so, no damage and no heal) should probably rival chrono - but there's simply no such build. Anet is unwilling to open full support options for other classes. And as long as anet is unwilling to do so, there will never be a good replacement to chrono. Even if chrono gets deleted from the game.

I am not sure what you mean with full support build. Chrono provide buffs (quickness and alacrity). In addition to this they do medium damage and then they prolong boons provided by other classes. And lastly they provide good cc.

A FB can provide the same quickness, same or more dps, same or more cc + a fair bit of might, fury, aegis spam and condi cleanse.Or if you are willing to drop the damage, can do all of the above + more healing then a druid.

As I see it, the main benefit of a chrono atm is that they can provide alacrity (with a FB you also need a part condi ren or full heal ren depending on what you like), and a squad with 2chrono will let the chronos help eash other with keeping up boons better then 1chrono + 1*FB as they will be able to signet-prolong eash others.

All that said, I think we will see atleast some FB/ren groups. Even if it mean that the group need to be build abit more up around it.

@Sigfodr.9576 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:It's not that chrono is too strong. It's that there are no other full support builds, only hybrid x/support ones where support is a secondary feature. A FB that could dedicate all of its build to pure support (so, no damage and no heal) should probably rival chrono - but there's simply no such build. Anet is unwilling to open full support options for other classes. And as long as anet is unwilling to do so, there will never be a good replacement to chrono. Even if chrono gets deleted from the game.

The sad thing about what happened is that now, you cant really upkeep even the basic boons in raids, the most basic thing is for example weaver, if you cant keep swiftness you lose 10% damage.For guardian retal, for classes that dont have self fury generation like thief, classes whos traits are designed in a way to do +% damage / boon on you.Then there is might for example, vigor for mirages, and most of these things are now gone. Yes chrono was "OP" with all those boon upkeeps, but basically ANet built classes around that aspect of chrono. But everyone forgets that chronos never asked for all boons, IMO what chronos need is quick/alac/swiftness/ some might upkeep to cover druid mistakes. Most of chrono boons like protection/resistance/aegis/stab/regen(speaking about chrono sharing regen) were all boons that were nice yeah but if you do mechanics right you dont need them. Also most of these boons are needed like aegis/stab but not as a upkeepable boon but as a optional one for some mechanics.

@Sigfodr.9576 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:It's not that chrono is too strong. It's that there are no other full support builds, only hybrid x/support ones where support is a secondary feature. A FB that could dedicate all of its build to pure support (so, no damage and no heal) should probably rival chrono - but there's simply no such build. Anet is unwilling to open full support options for other classes. And as long as anet is unwilling to do so, there will never be a good replacement to chrono. Even if chrono gets deleted from the game.

Look at what damage numbers chronos did while providing quickness and alacrity.

Then look at what damage numbers Firebrand and Renegade do while providing quickness and alacrity.

Chrono was a support build. Firebrand and Renegade are hybrid builds.

A FB can provide the same quickness, same or more dps, same or more cc + a fair bit of might, fury, aegis spam and condi cleanse.Or if you are willing to drop the damage, can do all of the above + more healing then a druid.

Yes, if Firebrand goes full support they outperformed the main healer (Druid, which was taken for utility only, yet still functioned as healer sufficiently) while providing permanent quickness and some other boons. Funny how that works out isn't it?

The reason chrono was a better full support was because its ease of use and combination with Druid outperformed other combinations. If we had more pure support builds, variety would increase. There will always be a best in slot combination, the question is: how easy can other combinations of classes achieve the same results? At no point is removing 1 setup helping other setups get better.

@Cyninja.2954 said:Look at what damage numbers chronos did while providing quickness and alacrity.

Then look at what damage numbers Firebrand and Renegade do while providing quickness and alacrity.

Chrono was a support build. Firebrand and Renegade are hybrid builds.

Chrono was (and is) able to do 8-17k dps (depending on player and boss) while doing full support. The fact that alot of chrono choose to go full minstreal and do 1-2k dps is not to improve the supportive part, but to make rotation etc easyer for the player. If you however want to compare chrono+druid due with FB+ren then the damage will prob be about the same (+-1 or 2k) and the boon output will also be the same. Whether you then choose to have the FB or the ren be the healer is up to you. And I think the result of the 2 settups will be about the same now after the change.

However, more people have already geared druid/chrono then FB/ren, more people are use to this settup and the chronos will be able to ease eashothers rotation more then 1 chrono + 1 FB will be due to how the new SoI work. This is why I think we mainly will see chrono/druids still though who knows ^^

@Sigfodr.9576 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Look at what damage numbers chronos did while providing quickness and alacrity.

Then look at what damage numbers Firebrand and Renegade do while providing quickness and alacrity.

Chrono was a support build. Firebrand and Renegade are hybrid builds.

Not while providing all the boons, or tanking or running Chaos and not especially after the Rune and Sigil change 3 weeks ago. Let's stay hones here please.

@Sigfodr.9576 said:However, more people have already geared druid/chrono then FB/ren, more people are use to this settup and the chronos will be able to ease eashothers rotation more then 1 chrono + 1 FB will be due to how the new SoI work. This is why I think we mainly will see chrono/druids still though who knows ^^

Chrono right now is very clunky and has to use wells and even then due to movement, permanent quickness and alacrity is not reliable.

A safer bet is that Firebrand+Renegade give boons with maybe a chrono as tank with SoI to extend and support (if at all).

That is not counting 4-5 mesmer dps stack compositions which remove all boon duration gear and just use base SoI for permanent boons to the raid squad.