Useful Nature Spirits Rework Please — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Useful Nature Spirits Rework Please

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 14, 2018 in Ranger

Can we please make Nature Spirits useful outside of Raids? Please? Once and for all? For build diversity because there are many game modes?

Here’s an idea...

“The Nature Spirit Society has given permission for Rangers to fuse with nature spirits! This allows the Ranger to have crazy cool new skills! Think of these crazy cool new skills as “Facets”… but only 1 can be active at anytime! No funky resource mechanics either!

Heal- Fused Water Spirit

  • Passive- Heal. Every 5 sec. 300 radius. Self and 5 allies.
  • Active- See Aqua Surge. 300 radius. Breaks stun.

Slot Skill- Fused Frost Spirit.

  • Passive- 10% bonus to damage. 300 radius. Self and 5 allies.
  • Active- See Cold Snap. 300 radius.

Slot Skill- Fused Stone Spirit.

  • Passive- Protection. 300 radius. Self and 5 allies.
  • Active- See Quicksand. Breaks stun.

Slot Skill- Fused Storm Spirit.

  • Passive- Vulnerability to enemies. 300 radius. +25% movement to self and 5 allies.
  • Active- Call Lighting. 5 targets. 300 radius.

Slot Skill- Fused Sun Spirit.

  • Passive- Burning. 5 targets. 300 radius.
  • Active- See Solar Flare. 300 radius.

Elite- Fused Spirit of Nature.

  • Passive- Regen and removes 1 condition on 1 sec intervals. 300 radius. Self and 5 allies.
  • Active- Revive 3 targets. Remove 5 conditions and breaks stun on self and 5 allies.”

Comments

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2018

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2018

    I don't think they could (or should) ever change the functionality of a skill type to only be limited to choosing one. If someone wants to run all spirits, they should be able to.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2018

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2018

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Also, passives have a place in the game as pointed out by Ben...

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

  • The only things I'd like to see:

    • Ground-Targeted casting at 900 range. - It's really stupid that they appear somewhere around you, it's not even consistent every time. Adding a 900 range ground-targeted cast would bring more interesting play
    • Make them immune to CC - when they get blown away, knocked away during a boss fight it really kills their utility... Can't get any benefit from them if they're on the other end of the map...
    • (traited) Cast their active skill on death - Of course this one needs to be traited because it is quite powerful. Would again add really interesting play.

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    As i already said: i disagree.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    As i already said: i disagree.

    You’re entitled to disagree all you want, but I’ll just stick to the fact that facet skills are of superior design, and get far more use in various modes than spirit weapons or nature spirits.

    I, for one, would rather run facet style skills through the game, as opposed to subpar niche skills that get little use. You should try running a spirit guard or nature ranger in wvw zergs or roaming, spvp and open world... then come back to let me know just how much better spirit weapons or nature spirits are.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    As i already said: i disagree.

    You’re entitled to disagree all you want, but I’ll just stick to the fact that facet skills are of superior design, and get far more use in various modes than spirit weapons or nature spirits.

    I, for one, would rather run facet style skills through the game, as opposed to subpar niche skills that get little use. You should try running a spirit guard or nature ranger in wvw zergs or roaming, spvp and open world... then come back to let me know just how much better spirit weapons or nature spirits are.

    Spirit weapons are actually quiet good. Well the Hammer and the sworda rae quiet good. The bow is decent. And the shield needs to be improved.
    But i ran sword on my DH for Openworld its fantastic for clearing trashmobs. And for PvE zergs i use the hammer for CC dmg.

    If you look at my suggestion it isnt not a piece inferior to your. You just have to use the active more frequently to keep the buff up but it improves AoE cappabbilities of rangers and it buffs allies on the run. It's not immobile, nor AI driven nor does it sacrifice any of the buffs for the sake of function in any way.

    The only difference to it than now is: you ground target it. You deal dmg with the skill on use and you can use it multiple times.
    The buffs stay and its niche stays.

    Facets are used on rev because glint has good skills behind it. The heal is fantastic, the AoE is good. The reveal is for PvP important and its a fast reloading stunbreak. The elite is good CC and the last facet skill is good burst but ofc the perma might is also not to shabby.

    Spirits are used for the buffs and are just summoned atm for them and their boons.
    You'll never activate them.
    The main difference between my suggestion and your is:

    Mine: You have to use the active first for the buff. You have to keep it active by smart play. You can use all buffs at once for your group (as many as fit on your bar ofc).

    Yours: Permanent toggle. Press and forget.
    You'll never use the active in certain content except the stunbreak to keep the buffs alive and because they have the bigger benefit to them.

    Conclusion: Yours is more convenient, but mine more usable in an active way. Thats why i disagree with you. And as i said: KEEP IT AT THAT. I dont want to argue about something were i wont change my mind, nor the arguments i bring up have any use.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:
    The only things I'd like to see:

    • Ground-Targeted casting at 900 range. - It's really stupid that they appear somewhere around you, it's not even consistent every time. Adding a 900 range ground-targeted cast would bring more interesting play
    • Make them immune to CC - when they get blown away, knocked away during a boss fight it really kills their utility... Can't get any benefit from them if they're on the other end of the map...
    • (traited) Cast their active skill on death - Of course this one needs to be traited because it is quite powerful. Would again add really interesting play.

    Yes i wish too you could ground target them. But i also wished that they woild be removed as killable objects or any AI. Rangwr has enough struggle with its pet AI.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    Can we please make Nature Spirits useful outside of Raids? Please? Once and for all? For build diversity because there are many game modes?

    Here’s an idea...

    “The Nature Spirit Society has given permission for Rangers to fuse with nature spirits! This allows the Ranger to have crazy cool new skills! Think of these crazy cool new skills as “Facets”… but only 1 can be active at anytime! No funky resource mechanics either!

    Heal- Fused Water Spirit

    • Passive- Heal. Every 5 sec. 300 radius. Self and 5 allies.
    • Active- See Aqua Surge. 300 radius. Breaks stun.

    Slot Skill- Fused Frost Spirit.

    • Passive- 10% bonus to damage. 300 radius. Self and 5 allies.
    • Active- See Cold Snap. 300 radius.

    Slot Skill- Fused Stone Spirit.

    • Passive- Protection. 300 radius. Self and 5 allies.
    • Active- See Quicksand. Breaks stun.

    Slot Skill- Fused Storm Spirit.

    • Passive- Vulnerability to enemies. 300 radius. +25% movement to self and 5 allies.
    • Active- Call Lighting. 5 targets. 300 radius.

    Slot Skill- Fused Sun Spirit.

    • Passive- Burning. 5 targets. 300 radius.
    • Active- See Solar Flare. 300 radius.

    Elite- Fused Spirit of Nature.

    • Passive- Regen and removes 1 condition on 1 sec intervals. 300 radius. Self and 5 allies.
    • Active- Revive 3 targets. Remove 5 conditions and breaks stun on self and 5 allies.”

    These are kinda signets

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2018

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Id Rather would want functionality like spirit weapons. So an active effect with charges. The buffs apply to allies when activating them and last for a certain amount. Duration is different in certain gamemodes and the ranger isnt affected by the buffs to keep the support function.
    Would be balanced IMO and more active.

    Problem with that design is being easily killed, slow on the battle field and more AI clutter.

    The purpose is to have useful and dependable skills first and foremost. And I can’t even remember the last time I had seen nature spiritus or spirit weapons being used... They are just not a good design for this game.

    No AI clutter dude. Spirit weapons are unkillable one time skills with charges.
    Spirit weapons are used very frequently today as a DPS or CC tool in PvE.
    I dont want spirits to be like the ones of the old days but how they are today.
    Basically making them the same skilltype.
    There is no AI involved into that just targeting.
    Ranger spirits could be made ground targeted and activate their active (with the oakhearts smashibg the ground for flavor) on that area and the buff spreads out to allies for a set duration after that.
    So the only difference if guarduan spirits and ranger spirits are: ranger spirits are AoE, provide a buff and strike ones.

    There are modes called wvw and spvp too...

    Some players are tired of less useful designs my friend, and the rework doesn’t take away anything... it’s just makes these slot skills better...

    I want you to seriously ask yourself if Revenant Facts are more useful, and used, in EVERY mode compared to Ranger Nature Spirit use...

    It does. Lets say after you activate it you will buff your allies for fixed duration. I. E. 20s
    Because of charges you can reapply these buffs frequently without any NPC that needs to live or be near to make it work. And you can apply them on the move.
    The dmg area of the activation skill could be way smaller than the buff ranger.
    The activation is dmg (selfish aspect) and the buffs affect allies (supportive aspects).
    This would make them useful in any form of group oriented gameplay. Is it raids, Zergs (wvw and PvE), fractals or for PvP support. And thats just because you can refresh the buffs frequently on the move.

    Facets would only lead to passive play, my suggestion would require active play.

    Passive skills and mechanics exist in the game, and there is nothing wrong with a set of slot skills for Ranger designed that way.

    Sure. But your proposal limits to one buff for balance reasons. My suggestion is balanced via charges and adjustable durations.
    And i think using buffs in certains situations and areas have higher flexibility and skillcap than just buff bot modes.

    Btw: reason why rev facets are used outside of raids is because a of the active skills not just the boons (atleast PvP).
    And because rev didnt had a lot to shine out if herald, but thats offtopic.

    Is there anything inherently wrong with 1 buff active at a time?

    Did you see the active skills mentioned in my op?

    Its a straight up nerf from the old spirits and would lead to stupid comps with double ranger necessary for sun and frost.

    The actives you posted are 80% the normal skills i would use too.
    Stunbreak on earth seems reasonable. On heal isnt that great (see old renegade heal).

    In the end it looks like we agree to disagree but i stay at my point.

    It's a straight up buff because spirits don't die now. You love your active play so it's perfect because instead of PASSIVELY sitting in one spot pumping out whatever buffs, they would be centered on your ACTIVE character.

    Are you saying that positive skill changes for the entire game shouldn't happen because Raid comps are way more important than every other area of the game?

    Things are going to be changing too, so we better get use to it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63014/a-note-on-future-boon-direction

    But it is worse than my suggestion.
    No i am saying that balance that throws one game mode over board for the sake of abother is not good balance. Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal, otherwise you just cobtribute to the whole problem just in another shape.

    As i said i disagree with you and i stand on point. I am against facets with only one active effect and i think frequent spirit casting and buffing would be healthier for the game than just upkeeps.

    Bu whatever. As i said we agree to disagree so keep it at that.

    "Something that is useful in some regard in every game mode should be the goal"... And that's exactly what this suggestion does. It also follows a proven, and better, design.

    As i already said: i disagree.

    You’re entitled to disagree all you want, but I’ll just stick to the fact that facet skills are of superior design, and get far more use in various modes than spirit weapons or nature spirits.

    I, for one, would rather run facet style skills through the game, as opposed to subpar niche skills that get little use. You should try running a spirit guard or nature ranger in wvw zergs or roaming, spvp and open world... then come back to let me know just how much better spirit weapons or nature spirits are.

    Spirit weapons are actually quiet good. Well the Hammer and the sworda rae quiet good. The bow is decent. And the shield needs to be improved.
    But i ran sword on my DH for Openworld its fantastic for clearing trashmobs. And for PvE zergs i use the hammer for CC dmg.

    If you look at my suggestion it isnt not a piece inferior to your. You just have to use the active more frequently to keep the buff up but it improves AoE cappabbilities of rangers and it buffs allies on the run. It's not immobile, nor AI driven nor does it sacrifice any of the buffs for the sake of function in any way.

    The only difference to it than now is: you ground target it. You deal dmg with the skill on use and you can use it multiple times.
    The buffs stay and its niche stays.

    Facets are used on rev because glint has good skills behind it. The heal is fantastic, the AoE is good. The reveal is for PvP important and its a fast reloading stunbreak. The elite is good CC and the last facet skill is good burst but ofc the perma might is also not to shabby.

    Spirits are used for the buffs and are just summoned atm for them and their boons.
    You'll never activate them.
    The main difference between my suggestion and your is:

    Mine: You have to use the active first for the buff. You have to keep it active by smart play. You can use all buffs at once for your group (as many as fit on your bar ofc).

    Yours: Permanent toggle. Press and forget.
    You'll never use the active in certain content except the stunbreak to keep the buffs alive and because they have the bigger benefit to them.

    Conclusion: Yours is more convenient, but mine more usable in an active way. Thats why i disagree with you. And as i said: KEEP IT AT THAT. I dont want to argue about something were i wont change my mind, nor the arguments i bring up have any use.

    I really don’t care about pve... you can run rare gear on crappy builds and still be successful in most pve content. There is more to the game than raid comps and the easy open world pve that you can be half asleep playing. I care about skill designs that are proven to be better for movement oriented combat in wvw and pvp.

    Pound for pound facets are used way more than spirit weapons or nature spirits, and there is no denying that fact... There are reasons why more players make use of facets as skills over spirits.... And it’s silly of you to attempt to diminish this idea by suggesting that the actives wouldn’t be used in order to paint some “not active play” picture. You didn’t even see there were active skills in the suggestion until I pointed them out, and to suggest those actives wouldn’t be useful is wrong... You are also implying that a rev running facets doesn’t really constitute “active play” while using those skills, which is wrong and shortsighted.

    Here try this... go solo roam and spvp on rev using facets and tell me it’s not truly “active play”... Then go solo roam and spvp on spirit guard and a nature spirit build and tell me all about your “active” wonderful experience using those skills... Think you may learn that fighting scripted AI is much different than fighting actual players.

    You should also watch the video then tell me again that running facets skills aren’t as “active play” when compared to spirit weapon designs...

  • Sounds like what you want is herald facets with unique (better) effects and without energy management (easier).

    In the other spirit rework poll thread, what people want is renegade spirits without the energy management (easier and more reliable).

    It's pretty hard for anet to rework ranger spirits to these suggestions without it overshadowing the elite spec mechanics of revenants. They'll either need to buff up revenants or make ranger spirits weak to compensate.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solnos.8045 said:
    Sounds like what you want is herald facets with unique (better) effects and without energy management (easier).

    In the other spirit rework poll thread, what people want is renegade spirits without the energy management (easier and more reliable).

    It's pretty hard for anet to rework ranger spirits to these suggestions without it overshadowing the elite spec mechanics of revenants. They'll either need to buff up revenants or make ranger spirits weak to compensate.

    The lack of renegade updates might indicate a complete renegade overhaul eitherway.
    I personally dont even wabt either if those things. Just frequent applicable buffs that have some useful targetable active effect and no longer AI driven. And ofc the current "meta" for spirits shozldbt be hamstribged just for the sake of the rework. Just expand its usefulness.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    Pound for pound facets are used way more than spirit weapons or nature spirits, and there is no denying that fact... There are reasons why more players make use of facets as skills over spirits.... And it’s silly of you to attempt to diminish this idea by suggesting that the actives wouldn’t be used in order to paint some “not active play” picture. You didn’t even see there were active skills in the suggestion until I pointed them out, and to suggest those actives wouldn’t be useful is wrong... You are also implying that a rev running facets doesn’t really constitute “active play” while using those skills, which is wrong and shortsighted.

    You are comparing two sets of utilities on base guard/ranger to an elite spec on a class which is forced to bring 5 or nothing of a utility via picking their legend. Rev also has energy which forces them to make a choice between which facets are channeled and for how long to channel. Facets can be made stronger because there are so many restrictions to them. If spirits are made into facets but none of the drawbacks are there, they will suck. Having the restriction of only 1 active at a time doesn't work because Rev don't have to option to mix and match/trait WS or meditations which ranger/guard can.

    I'm all for having use for spirits in other game modes but with the exception of the elite passive being OP, I wouldn't use any of those abilities you suggest in WvW/PvP. It would also kick Druid out of PvE too. So... I'd consider that a fail.

  • Agree, spirits ARE kitten for anything not a PVE raid.

    Personally i think they should be 90% immune to AOE damage, and cast-able at range.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2018

    They need to be mobile again. So they can be used in other gamemodes where the ranger is continuously moving around.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:
    Agree, spirits ARE kitten for anything not a PVE raid.

    Personally i think they should be 90% immune to AOE damage, and cast-able at range.

    They need a lot more than that to be useful.

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