[Suggestion] Mirage Cloak and Major Grandmaster traits rework

There are currently several issues with the mirage elite specialisation that make it hard to balance out and frustrating to face in a PvP scenario. As a result, we are getting some questionable changes (making Elusive Mind a harmful trait, nerfing core traits and skills, hurting core mesmer and chronomancer in an attempt to nerf mirage) and people avoiding a fight and complaining about mirages, making them give up trying rather than persisting through the (rather unrewarding) fighting experience and learning from it. the way I see it, the main culprit is the way Mirage Cloak works at the moment.

Perceived issues with the design:

• Dodge during hard CC is too forgiving, allowing for careless playstyle while still being effective. From opponent's perspective, landing a hard CC on mirage is not rewarding, making the fight frustrating and confusing.
• When combined with Infinite Horizon major grandmaster trait and good supply of clone spawning abilities, the fight gets flooded with too much visual clutter (clones, their attacks, animations, particles from ambush skills).
• Mirage Cloak gives a player too many options at once. It allows him to safecast an ability, dodge incoming attacks, avoid damage when hard CCed, deal damage directly through ambush skills and (when combined with Infinite Horizon) deal damage through clone ambush skills. This allows for utilizing the dodge both defensively and offensively at the same time (without the need to choose from one option or other at the given situation) and more effectively than any other dodge in the game.
• There's a reason some challenging games are enjoyable - when you make a mistake and you die, the game gives you enough information on what mistake you made and what should be done in order to avoid it. In this way, you learn from the mistake, you try again, and even if you die in the same way again, you have a motivation to keep trying, learning and seeing the fruits of your progress. When handled correctly, difficult gameplay and constant dying it rewarding, not frustrating.The forgiving gameplay, unrewarding counterplay, visual clutter and many options during invulnerability make the fight difficult to read for an opponent. The mesmer is a trickster profession and as such should have an access to tools meant to confuse his opponents, with the current design however, the mirage achieves confusion not through clever use of his tools, but through visual clutter and confusing mechanics. Especially in case of new players, when they fight a mirage, they get lost in the fight and when they die, they have no clue what their mistake was and how to learn from it. The fight gets chaotic, confusing, unrewarding and ultimately frustrating.
• When combined with core skills and mechanics, Mirage Cloak in it's current state allows for previously high risk/high reward strategies to be easy and safe to execute, making them low risk/high reward. From balance standpoint, nerfing the strategy without adressing the mirage mechanic itself changes it to low risk/medium reward for mirage and high risk/medium reward for mesmer and chronomancer, hurting these specialisations more than the mirage itself. Even if nerfed to the ground, without any high reward options for the mesmer, the mirage gameplay would still suffer from the problems listed above, rendering this balancing strategy ineffective.
• There is no real personality and choice based on gameplay in the Major Grandmaster traits. Elusive Mind was overperforming and nerfed to a state that I myself consider harmful. Dune Cloak is fine, but generally not worth taking over Infinite Horizon. Infinite Horizon is generally worth taking over the other options regardless of the playstyle the player chose to pursue. The "good for too many options" issue listed above is present even without taking any of these traits.
• The usual "don't get hit" strategy for dealing with condition dealing skills is difficult to execute against mirage, since Infinite Horizon allows the conditions to be applied frequently, in both offensive and defensive situations and from numerous directions and sources while causing visual clutter, making it hard to anticipate and avoid.
• In it's current state, Infinite Horizon's power is dependant on the nature of equipped weapon's ambush skill, rendering it either strong or weak without the option to balance it out without changing the nature of any weapon's ambush skill.

The suggested Mirage Cloak and Major Grandmaster traits rework aims to fix the issues listed above. It aims to make the mirage gameplay less forgiving and more about careful timing, reduce the amount of visual clutter, introduce more personified choices dependant on the playstyle/trait/situation the mirage player finds himself in, while also making it easier for an opponent to read the situation and differentiate between different playstyles/traits/courses of actions in given situations, allowing him to learn from his mistakes and enjoy the game, and also to make the mirage profession playstyle more personified according to chosen Major Grandmaster trait, allowing for easier balancing without affecting the mesmer profession (or other trait choices) as a whole.

Suggested Changes:

Mirage CloakGain Mirage Cloak instead of dodge rolling. Ambush skills become available for a short time whenever you gain Mirage Cloak. Gain access to Deception skills.

• Allows for casting during invulnerability uptime and dodging while immobilized
• No longer usable during hard control.

Infinite Horizon (offensive clone playstyle)When you gain Mirage Cloak, your illusions also gain it. Your Ambush skills are empowered by the number of illusions you curently have.

• Illusions no longer use Ambush skill during their Mirage Cloak, they only get invulnerability and stop attacking for it's duration instead.
• The ambush skill used is empowered by the current amount of your illusions (basically Malice system after the deadeye rework, only with clones instead of malice stacks).This allows for drastically reducing the amount of visual clutter and having more control over the damage component of this trait, while simultaneously maintaining the current amount of damage. It also makes it less chaotic for the opponent, allowing him to read the situation and react accordingly while allowing the mirage to deal damage with the trait only when he's not doing anything else at the moment (covering heal/another offensive skill cast with Mirage Cloak or dodging in hard CC while the clones apply damage through their ambush skill). Furthermore, it makes for easier balancing and some more creative options for the developers, since the way and rate the an ambush skill gets empowered can be changed for each weapon separately and regardless of it's non-empowered nature (making an Infinite Horizon traited mirage deal more/less damage by affecting the empowered damage without touching the base damage of an ambush skill, making the final 3rd clone empower more significant than the previous 2 (making it more profitable for the mirage to maintain 3 clones up while also adding a counterplay strategy for the opponent by trying to limit the amount of clones), adding an effect (like teleporting the illusions to the target after successfuly landing a 3 clone sword ambush) and distinct animation/particle according to the empower level (allowing both for distinct and rewarding feeling from playing the spec and counterplay by allowing the opponent to see an empowered ambush is coming his way),.. the possibilities are endless)
• Trait is worth taking when utilizing a playstyle focused on maximizing offense by maintaining a high amount of clones or by spawning them rapidly after each use. Offers the maximum offense with 3 clones up and allows for better control of illusions (invulnerability and no attacking during the Mirage Cloak).

Elusive Mind (defensive choice)Allows dodging during stun and removes conditions

• No longer gives an ability to break stun with dodge, no longer gives Exhaustion.
• Player can dodge during hard CC, as was the case before the rework. Clears 1 condition.
• Trait is worth taking when playing defensively and/or lacking in condi clear options. Allows for more forgiving gameplay, while not giving any offensive capabilities.

Dune Cloak (offensive trickster playstyle)Use Sand Shards when you gain Mirage Cloak. Conditions applied to bleeding foes have increased duration. Reduces the cooldown of Deception skills.

• The power and condition damage of Sand Shards is increased, allowing the trait to be damage-wise preferred over Infinite Horizon when fighting groups of weaker enemies, where maintaining 3 clones is impractical.
• Sand Shards is used 1/2 into Mirage Cloak rather than from the start. Has a distinct "charging-up" animation, making the opponent know something is coming, effectively baiting a dodge while also making him know what trait he is facing.
• Reduced cooldown allows for more frequent use of Deception skills.
• Trait worth taking when utilizing a playstyle focused on mobility, rotating clones through shatters and confusing foes with target breaking, juking, teleporting and hit and run strategy. Also for clearing trash mobs in-between bosses in PvE.

  ---

Feel free to give me any feedback.. Whether it's positive, negative or somewhere in between (like: "good concept but half-baked, here's why:").Cheers

TL:DR - Everything that makes mirage mirage must be deleted.

@SteepledHat.1345 said:TL:DR - Everything that makes mirage mirage must be deleted.

Please, elaborate.

I really like those changes tbh.

I am a mirage main and mesmer main in heart and I defended mirage for a long time because I'm a fanboy lol. But I have to say and agree with a lot of people that mirage is just too op in pvp. Those suggested changes, especially for mirage cloak would fix a few issues which would be vital for the pvp scene in general.

Infinite Horizon (offensive clone playstyle)When you gain Mirage Cloak, your illusions also gain it. Your Ambush skills are empowered by the number of illusions you curently have.

Illusions no longer use Ambush skill during their Mirage Cloak, they only get invulnerability and stop attacking for it's duration instead.The ambush skill used is empowered by the current amount of your illusions (basically Malice system after the deadeye rework, only with clones instead of malice stacks).This allows for drastically reducing the amount of visual clutter and having more control over the damage component of this trait, while simultaneously maintaining the current amount of damage. It also makes it less chaotic for the opponent, allowing him to read the situation and react accordingly while allowing the mirage to deal damage with the trait only when he's not doing anything else at the moment (covering heal/another offensive skill cast with Mirage Cloak or dodging in hard CC while the clones apply damage through their ambush skill). Furthermore, it makes for easier balancing and some more creative options for the developers, since the way and rate the an ambush skill gets empowered can be changed for each weapon separately and regardless of it's non-empowered nature (making an Infinite Horizon traited mirage deal more/less damage by affecting the empowered damage without touching the base damage of an ambush skill, making the final 3rd clone empower more significant than the previous 2 (making it more profitable for the mirage to maintain 3 clones up while also adding a counterplay strategy for the opponent by trying to limit the amount of clones), adding an effect (like teleporting the illusions to the target after successfuly landing a 3 clone sword ambush) and distinct animation/particle according to the empower level (allowing both for distinct and rewarding feeling from playing the spec and counterplay by allowing the opponent to see an empowered ambush is coming his way),.. the possibilities are endless)

Trait is worth taking when utilizing a playstyle focused on maximizing offense by maintaining a high amount of clones or by spawning them rapidly after each use. Offers the maximum offense with 3 clones up and allows for better control of illusions (invulnerability and no attacking during the Mirage Cloak).

This fucking guts DPS Mirage in PvE. Like completely deletes the spec from PvE.

If you're going to hit Mirage Damage in PvP, these are the nerfs you want to do:

1. Clones Spawned by Deceptive Evasion no longer spawn Automatically doing their Ambush attack with Infinite Horizon.

It's a fun trait synergy, but I think it's too much with Infinite Horizon. Infinite Horizon rewards spawning and maintaining three clones at once, and with all the AoE and cleave spilling around is actually somewhat difficult. But the investment in having and maintaining clones is undercut when a dodge roll doesn't just spawn a clone, but also automatically gives you the damage is putting too much into the value of one dodge even for Mirage. Deceptive Evasion is fine, but they shouldn't ambush until the Mirage Cloak after they spawn.

2. Cry of Pain.

I think a lot of people really missed how much this trait impacted Mesmer in PvP. Just a refresher, it used to be Illusionary Retribution, which had all shatter skills apply confusion on shatter. The end result is that a 3 Clone Mind Wrack or Distraction would both apply 4 stacks of confusion, and a three clone Cry of Frustration would apply 8 stacks of confusion. However, during the Phantasm rework last February they switched it so that it now gives Cry of Frustration 2 additional stacks of confusion, front loading ALL of the Mesmer's potential Confusion output into just one shatter. Now Cry of Frustration on it's own if it lands is 12 stacks of confusion just right there and that doesn't even count Blinding Disipation+Ineptitude. This made Illusions condi mirage FAR burstier than it had been previously.

While Illusions has fallen out of the meta in favor of Chaos, I do think this trait might be better off being reverted back to 1 additional confusion stack per shatter, giving mesmer more value for all their shatters long term rather than just Cry of Frustration.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

Infinite Horizon (offensive clone playstyle)When you gain Mirage Cloak, your illusions also gain it. Your Ambush skills are empowered by the number of illusions you curently have.

Illusions no longer use Ambush skill during their Mirage Cloak, they only get invulnerability and stop attacking for it's duration instead.The ambush skill used is empowered by the current amount of your illusions (basically Malice system after the deadeye rework, only with clones instead of malice stacks).This allows for drastically reducing the amount of visual clutter and having more control over the damage component of this trait, while simultaneously maintaining the current amount of damage. It also makes it less chaotic for the opponent, allowing him to read the situation and react accordingly while allowing the mirage to deal damage with the trait only when he's not doing anything else at the moment (covering heal/another offensive skill cast with Mirage Cloak or dodging in hard CC while the clones apply damage through their ambush skill). Furthermore, it makes for easier balancing and some more creative options for the developers, since the way and rate the an ambush skill gets empowered can be changed for each weapon separately and regardless of it's non-empowered nature (making an Infinite Horizon traited mirage deal more/less damage by affecting the empowered damage without touching the base damage of an ambush skill, making the final 3rd clone empower more significant than the previous 2 (making it more profitable for the mirage to maintain 3 clones up while also adding a counterplay strategy for the opponent by trying to limit the amount of clones), adding an effect (like teleporting the illusions to the target after successfuly landing a 3 clone sword ambush) and distinct animation/particle according to the empower level (allowing both for distinct and rewarding feeling from playing the spec and counterplay by allowing the opponent to see an empowered ambush is coming his way),.. the possibilities are endless)

Trait is worth taking when utilizing a playstyle focused on maximizing offense by maintaining a high amount of clones or by spawning them rapidly after each use. Offers the maximum offense with 3 clones up and allows for better control of illusions (invulnerability and no attacking during the Mirage Cloak).

1. Clones Spawned by Deceptive Evasion no longer spawn Automatically doing their Ambush attack with Infinite Horizon.

2. Cry of Pain.

Explain how it would gut PvE DPS.If the 3 clone empowered ambush did the same damage as an ambush + 3 clone ambushes through Infinite Horizon does now, how would the dps be gutted?

Nerfing the mirage damage was not my intention, as stated in the list of issues and what my suggestions aim to accomplish section.The suggested change to Infinite Horizon aims for:

• reducing visual clutter
• making it easier to anticipate and deal with in PvP
• Maintaining the current damage and clone control
• Giving developers a way to balance and play with the skills without affecting the base ambush skill itself

There’s no problem with IH or clones using ambush skills.

Mirage Cloak I think everyone can agree with that you shouldn’t be able to dodge while cc’d without Elusive Mind.

@"phokus.8934" said:There’s no problem with IH or clones using ambush skills.

Mirage Cloak I think everyone can agree with that you shouldn’t be able to dodge while cc’d without Elusive Mind.

The "take ambush skills from clones" on Infinite Horizon is merely an option I came up with as a way to solve the "visual clutter" and "new players getting lost and unable to learn from mistakes" issues listed above.Do you see problems with my listed "visual clutter" and "new players getting lost and unable to learn from mistakes" issues (meaning them not being relevant and should be taken off the list), or just with the Infinite Horizon change I've suggested to deal with these issues?

@phokus.8934 said:There’s no problem with IH or clones using ambush skills.

Mirage Cloak I think everyone can agree with that you shouldn’t be able to dodge while cc’d without Elusive Mind.

I don't. Every spec of mirage is at it's weakest already. It doesn't need anymore hits. Quite honestly, the community just needs to get better.

Because new players can't cope doesn't mean there's an issue. They need to learn to play the game like we all did. All classes have changed drastically since release. Mesmer has always been hard to track and tricky that's the class. There are a lot of reveals, hard CC and more damage than ever. Take away everyone's reveals and hard CC then have a discussion about nerfing mirage.

The visual effect of all clones ambushing at the same time as the player should IMO be a foundation design feature of the spec, not an optional Grandmaster Major trait.

But anyway, visually IH should retain all clones ambushing with the mirage - it provides the thematic flavour. Also I don't think the synergy with Deceptive Evasion is an issue - it's good trait synergy and doesn't need any changes. Balancing IH in my opinion is only a matter of nerfing various clone ambush skills to reduce condi, cc, damage etc.

As for the rest of that - sure Dune Cloak could do with anything to make it more appealing, though I think slapping 20% deception cooldown reduction on there is not necessary.

And yes I'd be in favour of EM allowing dodge while cced if baseline mirage can't do this - though bear in mind this would mean everyone in any kind of pvp/wvw would use EM only again, which would come back to there only being one good GM major trait pick.

Personally I'd rather IH be a baseline mirage mechanic (eg grandmaster minor trait), then shuffle and adapt the rest of the spec around that, nerfing where necessary.

@SteepledHat.1345 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:There’s no problem with IH or clones using ambush skills.

Mirage Cloak I think everyone can agree with that you shouldn’t be able to dodge while cc’d without Elusive Mind.

The changes I suggest are not meant to be "a hit" to mirage. And I'd rather like to see mirage reaching a state where it's easier to balance (eliminating the confusing clutter and unrewarding counterplay, making it more skill based and less "let's nerf it, because confused people started complaining" based) and not getting unnecessary and half-baked nerfs every patch.The "community just needs to get better" argument is something I expected to see here and it's precisely why I mentioned the "difficult games can be rewarding and fun to play when handled correctly". Any "L2P" issue can be resolved by learning. The current state of mirage however, does not allow people (especially beginners) to have enough motivation to persist learning. It's basic game design, tailored to how people and their motivations work in these situations.You get feared, a scourge pops up near you, you die - you learn to avoid getting hit by fear and to stay away from scourges, killing them from range instead. Since you are able to apply the strategy and to see improvements in fights against scourges, you are able to persist with learning and get better, while having fun doing so.Then a mirage pops up near you, flooding your entire screen with copies and particles, stealth, target breaking, teleports, invulnerabilities and dodging in hard CC. You die. You have no idea what was happening the entire fight, what mistakes you made and what strategy to adapt to "get better". Then you die again with the same results. You start complaining, joining the endless masses of co-confused, until a dev sees it and decides to nerf that pesky mirage in the worst way possible.

New people might get easily frustrated, while experienced people just avoid fighting mirage because they see no fun in it.Telling them to "get better" is useless. They won't without the right conditions. That's not how people work.

I would rather nerf infinite horizon change mirage cloak to non invurn=sacrifise dodging for dmg

@HisRoyalDudeness.8637 said:

@SteepledHat.1345 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:There’s no problem with IH or clones using ambush skills.

Mirage Cloak I think everyone can agree with that you shouldn’t be able to dodge while cc’d without Elusive Mind.

I got better idea mirage cloak is to rewarding i am serius remove invurn and infinite horizon change mirage to not have clones but mirrors instead and tone down ambush make disortion turn to lesser mirage cloak . Make mirage sacrifise survival of dodges and evades along with aegis for some extra damage. Along with while using mirage cloak you cant be healed. What you think?

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@HisRoyalDudeness.8637 said:

@SteepledHat.1345 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:There’s no problem with IH or clones using ambush skills.

Mirage Cloak I think everyone can agree with that you shouldn’t be able to dodge while cc’d without Elusive Mind.

I think the definition of "constructive feedback" was ripped out from your dictionary and replaced with "trolling" instead.

@HisRoyalDudeness.8637 said:

@SteepledHat.1345 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:There’s no problem with IH or clones using ambush skills.

Mirage Cloak I think everyone can agree with that you shouldn’t be able to dodge while cc’d without Elusive Mind.

Why do I get the feeling you read my post here.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:So it's a dead heat between Mesmer and Ranger as of this post, with 46 votes each. Yet there are only three posts by Mesmer voters with little to no explanation. For example:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:I haven’t played serious PvP since HoT, but i always vote Mesmer in polls because reasons.

Why remove stunbreaks on EM at this point with the exhaustion on stunbreaks no one but people who are either highly skilled and do not waste a single dodge or people who don't know how bad that exhaustion can hurt you are using it. Removing the stunbreaks before the exhaustion was introduced would've been a better deal. But the excuse is new people can't figure it out give me a break. They need to roll one learn it then they will learn when and how to deal with them.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@HisRoyalDudeness.8637 said:

@SteepledHat.1345 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:There’s no problem with IH or clones using ambush skills.

Mirage Cloak I think everyone can agree with that you shouldn’t be able to dodge while cc’d without Elusive Mind.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:So it's a dead heat between Mesmer and Ranger as of this post, with 46 votes each. Yet there are only three posts by Mesmer voters with little to no explanation. For example:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:I haven’t played serious PvP since HoT, but i always vote Mesmer in polls because reasons.

I did not, it's just that we happen to be talking about the same thing.

@Jay.4012 said:Why remove stunbreaks on EM at this point with the exhaustion on stunbreaks no one but people who are either highly skilled and do not waste a single dodge or people who don't know how bad that exhaustion can hurt you are using it. Removing the stunbreaks before the exhaustion was introduced would've been a better deal. But the excuse is new people can't figure it out give me a break. They need to roll one learn it then they will learn when and how to deal with them.

Because it would make it distinct from the other trait choices and viable again. It's all stated in the first post.

Anyway, I still don't see one single constructive comment here, this is failing as a brainstorming/giving info to devs topic miserably.

I've made a list of issues I see with the designI've stated how I would like to handle themI've given suggestions on how it could be done.

It's but an idea. A food for thought. A "look at this guys, let's try to figure something out" kind of situation.If you see problems in what I am presenting, it's beneficial to say why:Is the core issue with the design listed invalid? Why?Is the way I am trying to handle it wrong? Why?Are the suggestions unfit to solve the issues in the way I want to handle them? In what way and how it could be handled better?

I feel like I am just repeating myself over and over again.

@"HisRoyalDudeness.8637" said:Anyway, I still don't see one single constructive comment here, this is failing as a brainstorming/giving info to devs topic miserably.

I've made a list of issues I see with the designI've stated how I would like to handle themI've given suggestions on how it could be done.

It's but an idea. A food for thought. A "look at this guys, let's try to figure something out" kind of situation.If you see problems in what I am presenting, it's beneficial to say why:Is the core issue with the design listed invalid? Why?Is the way I am trying to handle it wrong? Why?Are the suggestions unfit to solve the issues in the way I want to handle them? In what way and how it could be handled better?

I feel like I am just repeating myself over and over again.

I think the number of hold outs who think nothing needs to be done about dodge while CC and Elusive Mind is limited to just the developer team.

I also pointed out I don't think Infinite Horizon is the problem right now, but Deceptive Evasion spawning clones Automatically doing ambush attacks. I think that's pretty constructive.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"HisRoyalDudeness.8637" said:Anyway, I still don't see one single constructive comment here, this is failing as a brainstorming/giving info to devs topic miserably.

I've made a list of issues I see with the designI've stated how I would like to handle themI've given suggestions on how it could be done.

It's but an idea. A food for thought. A "look at this guys, let's try to figure something out" kind of situation.If you see problems in what I am presenting, it's beneficial to say why:Is the core issue with the design listed invalid? Why?Is the way I am trying to handle it wrong? Why?Are the suggestions unfit to solve the issues in the way I want to handle them? In what way and how it could be handled better?

I feel like I am just repeating myself over and over again.

It is, more than anything in this topic.The "untraited dodge in CC" and "Elusive Mind being harmful" is what I started with when thinking about this. IH and DC suggestions are but an option I came up with when trying to give them distinct personality (I liked the daredevil dodge system, each dodge being good for distinct playstyle, making opponents know what they are facing) and after witnessing what a particle mess can a single axe/staff mirage cause.

Do you see the "IH visual clutter issue" as invalid? Should nothing be done about it? If it's valid, is there a better way of handling it?

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

2. Cry of Pain.

I think a lot of people really missed how much this trait impacted Mesmer in PvP. Just a refresher, it used to be Illusionary Retribution, which had all shatter skills apply confusion on shatter. The end result is that a 3 Clone Mind Wrack or Distraction would both apply 4 stacks of confusion, and a three clone Cry of Frustration would apply 8 stacks of confusion. However, during the Phantasm rework last February they switched it so that it now gives Cry of Frustration 2 additional stacks of confusion, front loading ALL of the Mesmer's potential Confusion output into just one shatter. Now Cry of Frustration on it's own if it lands is 12 stacks of confusion just right there and that doesn't even count Blinding Disipation+Ineptitude. This made Illusions condi mirage FAR burstier than it had been previously.

While Illusions has fallen out of the meta in favor of Chaos, I do think this trait might be better off being reverted back to 1 additional confusion stack per shatter, giving mesmer more value for all their shatters long term rather than just Cry of Frustration.

While I do agree with you on some aspects I'd like to point out that your argument is very one-sided. The other side of the medal are (or were) Chronomancers who just rolled their face over all Shatter skills to apply a huge amount of Confusion (and Torment through Maim the Disillusioned) - mostly without any penalty when it was done while using F5.

There is no one right way to set those traits up. There are up- and downsides to all of them. Yes, the new Cry of Frustration is burstier. However, I personally don't see this as an issue. I prefer Shatters being used for a specific purpose instead of pressing them on cooldown regardless of the situation. Therefore, I also find Maim the Disillusioned to be problematic (and to a lesser extend Restorative Illusions and Blinding Dissipation). I also want to point out that it's just reasonable to somewhat have Mind Wrack as the go to pShatter and Cry of Frustration to be the go to for cShatter. That being said, I do feel that Cry of Pain should be a choice (meaning: Major) and not an integral part of Illusions (meaning: Minor) and I'm still majorly disappointed by Malicious Sorcery (which could easily be merged with Cry of Pain). Illusions could certainly need yet another clean up.

People are still mad because mirage can dodge while being CCd...Okey. You are mad because other classes cant do that, right? Sure, but you know, other classes walk around minimum of 2000 stability stacks and aegis spam. Mirage is a visual cluster, okey... This is a thing what makes mirage into a trickster class, you cant play carlessly, since if you waste your dodge on offense then you will get CCd after 3 second and you cant do nothing about it only if you use EM, but with that you will get deleted because you will be unable to dodge. The rework of IH trait is interesting since you said empower the illusions, so can you explain how? I mean, clones do no damage so you can empower them by condition apply, phantasms do damage, but for that you would need to dodge immediately after creating a phantasm so it means you would break your combo for nothing basically because phantasms can get blocked or dodged, so you wasted a defensive game mechanic(dodge) for offensive purpose and its still not sure weither it will hit or no.If you mean to use the illusions without any real use only to have them as a 3 stack damage modify, then its okey too...Just give mirage some other defensive traits

I dont know why people are so obsessed with mirage and its state...It was not even considered as META till the 11/12 patch because boonbeast and holo was too good against basically any class.Even people who played mirage on a high level said that its basically useless against meta classes.If for example a mirage(no matter if power or condi) plays against a same skill level boonbeast or holo there is very little chance of the mirage to win(maybe after the patch it has significantly better chance but still not 100%)

@Nepster.4275 said:People are still mad because mirage can dodge while being CCd...Okey. You are mad because other classes cant do that, right? Sure, but you know, other classes walk around minimum of 2000 stability stacks and aegis spam. Mirage is a visual cluster, okey... This is a thing what makes mirage into a trickster class, you cant play carlessly, since if you waste your dodge on offense then you will get CCd after 3 second and you cant do nothing about it only if you use EM, but with that you will get deleted because you will be unable to dodge. The rework of IH trait is interesting since you said empower the illusions, so can you explain how? I mean, clones do no damage so you can empower them by condition apply, phantasms do damage, but for that you would need to dodge immediately after creating a phantasm so it means you would break your combo for nothing basically because phantasms can get blocked or dodged, so you wasted a defensive game mechanic(dodge) for offensive purpose and its still not sure weither it will hit or no.If you mean to use the illusions without any real use only to have them as a 3 stack damage modify, then its okey too...Just give mirage some other defensive traits

I dont know why people are so obsessed with mirage and its state...It was not even considered as META till the 11/12 patch because boonbeast and holo was too good against basically any class.Even people who played mirage on a high level said that its basically useless against meta classes.If for example a mirage(no matter if power or condi) plays against a same skill level boonbeast or holo there is very little chance of the mirage to win(maybe after the patch it has significantly better chance but still not 100%)

Stop with your argument ad hominem right there.I am not mad and if I was, it does not matter in this discussion. I've always played mesmer almost exclusively, the same applies to mirage from the PoF release. This neither matters at all.I've stated my take on the issues, everything you need to work with is in the initial post in this topic. Avoid trying to take into account any attitude and sentiment I might or might not have on this topic.

Trickster class based on visual clutter rather than skillful use of tools is, in my opinion, a bad design.. As stated in the initial post. If you take issues with this point, please clarify why.You can do a lot of thinks when caught in hard CC: Blink away, Illusionary Ambush away, Jaunt away, use Signed of Midnight, Distortion, daze with Diversion, daze with Power Lock, blind with any shatter through Blinding Dissipation.With the suggested IH change, the illusions would still autoattack as usual, only the current clone ambush skill damage would be transferred into your ambush skill.. But as I've already said, it's but a suggestion, ready to be dismantled and changed through discussion.

There are many busted classes and mechanics in this game, this topic however focuses on the mirage.

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:I would rather nerf infinite horizon change mirage cloak to non invurn=sacrifise dodging for dmg

what kind of bullsh*t is this ? Remove dodge rolls from entire class ... how such 'BRILLIANT' idea ... why you arent hired to anet balance team yet?

@HisRoyalDudeness.8637HisRoyalDudeness.8637The changes I suggest are not meant to be "a hit" to mirage.More like a nuke from orbit and make sure no one ever would play mirage ,even in pveAnd I'd rather like to see mirage reaching a state where it's easier to balanceMore like easier to be farmed in pvp with 2 broken hands?This thread makes me facepalm ...Dune Cloak is fine, but generally not worth taking over Infinite Horizon.Dune Cloak is fine, but generally not worth taking over Infinite HorizonDune Cloak is fine, but generally not worth taking over Infinite HorizonDune Cloak is fine, but generally not worth taking over Infinite HorizonDune Cloak is fine, but generally not worth taking over Infinite HorizonI'm quotted enough time to invalidate every OP ideas ?! Since you dont get it ,its not taken because both EM/dune cloak are trash