PvE Power Warrior DPS Issues

Hey all,

This post is to outline some of the core issues that are currently inhibiting power warrior builds to be effective pure DPS builds. I'm trying to keep this generic such that it applies to Core, Power Berserker, and Power Spellbreaker, but each of them have a few individual issues of their own. (i.e. Power Berserker/Spellbreaker have issues with Berserker's power during the opener)

When looking at the other classes that have strong DPS builds, I've found they have a few things in common. Each build may only have a subset of the criteria below, but in general these items are what make a good power DPS build.

1. Weapon or Utility skills that leave lasting fields that do DPS while being able to complete other skills. (Example: Glyph of Storms).
2. Utility/Traits that greatly increase the damage of skills over a period of time (Example: Sic 'Em)
3. Traits that give a large amount of crit chance such that the build can run full Berserker gear, scholar runes, and 2 damaging sigils. (Example: Power DH with Radiance)

I don't believe that a lasting field DPS increase really fits the warrior theme, so introducing buffs to criteria #1 doesn't make much sense.

Peak Performance is a good example of #2, but the 20% modifier for 6s requires that we use 2 physical skills to have a reasonable amount of uptime on this buff. In addition, Bulls charge is the only Physical utility that does a significant amount of power damage. If this was given an ammo system, or if Kick/Bolas were buffed to do more power damage in PvE, then #2 could be improved upon. Or if the buff was extended to 8-10s such that a single physical skill could cover both the burst rotation in both weapon sets.

The Banner trait in discipline is helpful, but not nearly as strong as the traits in DH, Holo, Ele, Rev, Necro, Soulbeast, etc. An additional crit modifier in this Discipline or Strength would help DPS wise, but also help consistency with other power DPS builds (i.e. mostly full berserker/scholar/force/impact)

In addition to the 3 common pieces above, warrior also has an issue where many of its traits that give bonus damage to power builds are split across many different traitlines. Strength and Discipline are required at this point for a power build, but then Tactics has Empowered and Arms has Signet Mastery, both of which are strong DPS traits. If either of these were moved to Strength/Discipline in some way, then there could be a bit more freedom for builds using an elite specialization as the 3rd traitline.

I'm sure there are other issues/ideas, but these are some of the core things I've noticed that are lacking for power warrior.

The results of these issues, compiled with Berserker's power issues on Berserker/Spellbreaker is that power warrior has very low burst and plays more like a condi class. This means that it isn't in a great spot on bosses that are more susceptible to power burst.

Are u sure ? My power spb usually can deal same dps like DH did in fractal/raid , the main problem is maintain the stacks of berserker's power and attacker's insight by using FC as much as possible. kick doesn't do much damage i agree , but still u have to put it on the rotation too. Empowered ally only give 100 power , signet mastery's passive only work on the target below 50%, there's a possible build that you use strengh/Arms and spb and bring 3 signet(healing/fury/rage). activate them when ready to use. but such build means you'll stuck on one weapon for 10 sec.

After they nerf berserker, Anet said that they want warrior player to use burst skill more often, most People just want to wait until Adrenaline up to lvl 3 then get max stack of berserker's power at once (that's why some people would rather to use core warrior). To be honest , use burst skill many times usually give u better damage output (F1 and F2 skill are burst , which means you have to use FC too) also gain attacker's insight each time Full counter hit something. So try to change your playstyle and you might see the different result.

Also, after last balance patch , the ..SC meta weapon (axe/dagger and mace/axe) got nerf from trait if you still use it. you'll lose 60 ferocity by this weapon build.the old-school weapon build( Axe/Axe and Greatsword) got buff from trait instead.

the damage boost from trait is fine , we just have to play warrior "more flexibility".

Warrior means more than banner slave, if you try to master it. Imao

To piggy-back off this, Spellbreaker's Dagger trait was one of the few traits that didn't get any benefit in this recent weapon trait-focused patch.

Spellbreaker Mainhand Dagger could use a buff to be competitive and usable in pve only.

Berserker still remains a specialization that was ridiculously fun for power and then it got gutted. Fixing that would be a simple cast time revert on headbutt and arc divider in pve only. There would be no balance risk since those are both Berserker only.

This is my favorite class and has been since GW1. Daggers W/A with Warrior's Endurance was my thing.

I love that it's borderline good, but borderline isn't good enough when you're trying to get into parties.

I know anet isn't fond of splitting skills, but it's completely necessary due to how powerful cc and control conditions are in pvp in contrast with how weak they are in pve.

@"Rodrick.1942" said:Are u sure ? My power spb usually can deal same dps like DH did in fractal/raid , the main problem is maintain the stacks of berserker's power and attacker's insight by using FC as much as possible. kick doesn't do much damage i agree , but still u have to put it on the rotation too. Empowered ally only give 100 power , signet mastery's passive only work on the target below 50%, there's a possible build that you use strengh/Arms and spb and bring 3 signet(healing/fury/rage). activate them when ready to use. but such build means you'll stuck on one weapon for 10 sec.

After they nerf berserker, Anet said that they want warrior player to use burst skill more often, most People just want to wait until Adrenaline up to lvl 3 then get max stack of berserker's power at once (that's why some people would rather to use core warrior). To be honest , use burst skill many times usually give u better damage output (F1 and F2 skill are burst , which means you have to use FC too) also gain attacker's insight each time Full counter hit something. So try to change your playstyle and you might see the different result.

Also, after last balance patch , the ..SC meta weapon (axe/dagger and mace/axe) got nerf from trait if you still use it. you'll lose 60 ferocity by this weapon build.the old-school weapon build( Axe/Axe and Greatsword) got buff from trait instead.

the damage boost from trait is fine , we just have to play warrior "more flexibility".

Warrior means more than banner slave, if you try to master it. Imao

Nowhere did I mention Banners. I"m also very aware of the M/A+A/D build and its impact from the last balance patch...well because I was the first person to make the build with mace :D.

Spellbreaker benchmarks are always misleading because the most important number is the very first one. This is because most bosses where power classes excel have burst phases around 20ish seconds. This is why DH is a very strong pick on power bosses, but it doesn't always have the highest benchmark on the 4million golem. Burst damage is the most important thing when it comes to power classes.

I didn't mentioned Empowered Allies, but rather the trait "Empowered" which gives 1% damage per boon on you. This is the trait (along with Signet Mastery in Arms) that I mentioned could be useful in either Strength or Discipline.

This isn't meant to be a discussion of not understanding how warrior DPS works, but rather the limitations of a power build that doesn't have enough burst to compete with other power builds in the optimal scenarios. Even when its 4million DPS was #1 on SC's benchmark, it still was rarely/never used in meta fights because bosses where power is strong don't have 2min+ phases.

While I agree that the current state of warrior traits is resulting in a below-top-tier-performance as a power based pure dps build, I assume the most relevant issue in that regard has to be that such a build is not (and has not been) among the developer's goals for warrior. On the topic of moving "Empowered" and/ or "Signet Mastery" to better power dps specializations: Where do you suggest to put them? Strength and Discipline offer good options in pretty much every slot. Though I suppose "Empowered" could be added into an existing minor trait.

@"Katary.7096" said:While I agree that the current state of warrior traits is resulting in a below-top-tier-performance as a power based pure dps build, I assume the most relevant issue in that regard has to be that such a build is not (and has not been) among the developer's goals for warrior. On the topic of moving "Empowered" and/ or "Signet Mastery" to better power dps specializations: Where do you suggest to put them? Strength and Discipline offer good options in pretty much every slot. Though I suppose "Empowered" could be added into an existing minor trait.

At this moment, if a second warrior want to join a group he is forced to play condi.The only good dps option.

It would be sooooo much better if we could just trade Tactic for Berzerker and TA DA! Dps build.

I really hope we get that option.Would be so much QoL.

@"Katary.7096" said:While I agree that the current state of warrior traits is resulting in a below-top-tier-performance as a power based pure dps build, I assume the most relevant issue in that regard has to be that such a build is not (and has not been) among the developer's goals for warrior. On the topic of moving "Empowered" and/ or "Signet Mastery" to better power dps specializations: Where do you suggest to put them? Strength and Discipline offer good options in pretty much every slot. Though I suppose "Empowered" could be added into an existing minor trait.

Agreed, it would be tough to find a spot for those traits.

I don't see why it wouldn't be a goal. Having a viable power and condi DPS build for each class is a very reasonable goal IMO.

@"Katary.7096" said:While I agree that the current state of warrior traits is resulting in a below-top-tier-performance as a power based pure dps build, I assume the most relevant issue in that regard has to be that such a build is not (and has not been) among the developer's goals for warrior. On the topic of moving "Empowered" and/ or "Signet Mastery" to better power dps specializations: Where do you suggest to put them? Strength and Discipline offer good options in pretty much every slot. Though I suppose "Empowered" could be added into an existing minor trait.

Swap banner trait from disc with empowered trait in tactics.

Swap longbow trait with signets trait. Combine Vengeance trait with longbow or another trait in arms.

Swap signets trait with Vengeance trait.

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@"Katary.7096" said:While I agree that the current state of warrior traits is resulting in a below-top-tier-performance as a power based pure dps build, I assume the most relevant issue in that regard has to be that such a build is not (and has not been) among the developer's goals for warrior. On the topic of moving "Empowered" and/ or "Signet Mastery" to better power dps specializations: Where do you suggest to put them? Strength and Discipline offer good options in pretty much every slot. Though I suppose "Empowered" could be added into an existing minor trait.

agreed, the more viable build diversity the better.

Now that I think about it, I think that Vengeance should be moved to a Tactics minor trait and the current tactics minors should be condensed since they are so weak.

Another thing to think about with vengeance trait, I don't think I've ever used it or found a use for vengeance trait on my warrior. Honestly it's something that should just be rolled into the skill, because it actually handicaps us unlike other professions. If they kill something in their downed state they get up, if we kill something while in vengeance we might not unless traited.

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@"Katary.7096" said:While I agree that the current state of warrior traits is resulting in a below-top-tier-performance as a power based pure dps build, I assume the most relevant issue in that regard has to be that such a build is not (and has not been) among the developer's goals for warrior. On the topic of moving "Empowered" and/ or "Signet Mastery" to better power dps specializations: Where do you suggest to put them? Strength and Discipline offer good options in pretty much every slot. Though I suppose "Empowered" could be added into an existing minor trait.

That certainly should be one of their goals. However Guild Wars 2 was released over 6 years ago and according to my memory Warriors have had a top tier power DPS build for a minimal to nonexistent portion of that time. The most likely explanation is either that the devs do not care enough to make such a build possible or if they do care, they do not know how to implement it. Since the second possibility implies a certain degree of incompetence I choose to believe in the first. Then again that is just my opinion and could be entirely wrong.

An alternative approach to shuffling traits around could be based on your assessment that power Warrior has weak burst, since it has to build up buffs (Berserker's Power, Attacker's Insight, Peak Performance) in order to reach maximum damage output. A fair tradeoff for ramp up time is higher overall damage, which could be achieved by returning Peak Performance to 33% bonus damage for 5 seconds, returning Attacker's Insight to 60 power and ferocity per stack and buffing Berserker's Power to 10% bonus damage per stack, split balance where necessary.

Well, as a warrior, i use Assasin´s Gear , and i always have (with fury) critical hits. Like 104% with Greatsword and 99.5% with Dagger/shield. Also i use Endurance Food(40% endurance reg.). :)I use Power Spellbreaker DISCIPLINE 2 - 3 - 2 / STRENGTH 1 - 2 - 2 / SPELLBREAKER 2(or 1) - 3 - 2Also i have this sigils :GREATSWORD ( Berserker ): Sigil of Vitality (restores full endurance when u kill an enemy, so u can dodge and dodge and dodge.Sigil of Presicion (7% crit chance)DAGGER : Sigil of VitalitySHIELD ( or another Dagger) : Sigil of Energy ( Gain 50% of endurance when swap to this weapon in combat)

Also, i have Rune of Fireworks : D175 might / 15% boon duration / 6 seconds of vigor, fury and 6 stacks of power

@GunzTrek.4590 said:Well, as a warrior, i use Assasin´s Gear , and i always have (with fury) critical hits. Like 104% with Greatsword and 99.5% with Dagger/shield. Also i use Endurance Food(40% endurance reg.). :)I use Power Spellbreaker DISCIPLINE 2 - 3 - 2 / STRENGTH 1 - 2 - 2 / SPELLBREAKER 2(or 1) - 3 - 2Also i have this sigils :GREATSWORD ( Berserker ): Sigil of Vitality (restores full endurance when u kill an enemy, so u can dodge and dodge and dodge.Sigil of Presicion (7% crit chance)DAGGER : Sigil of VitalitySHIELD ( or another Dagger) : Sigil of Energy ( Gain 50% of endurance when swap to this weapon in combat)

Also, i have Rune of Fireworks : D175 might / 15% boon duration / 6 seconds of vigor, fury and 6 stacks of power

Your build doesnt even get close to what is needed to be a real dps for high end pve content (raids/high fracs), which is the topic of this thread im pretty sure. Ofc your build works in open world or dungeons, but thats it rly.

@"GunzTrek.4590" said:DAGGER : Sigil of Vitality

Wait, is there a sigil of vitality in the game?When was the sigil added? I remember asking for one on 2017 but as far as I know they never added it, but maybe I missed that content.

@RedShark.9548 said:

@GunzTrek.4590 said:Well, as a warrior, i use Assasin´s Gear , and i always have (with fury) critical hits. Like 104% with Greatsword and 99.5% with Dagger/shield. Also i use Endurance Food(40% endurance reg.). :)I use Power Spellbreaker DISCIPLINE 2 - 3 - 2 / STRENGTH 1 - 2 - 2 / SPELLBREAKER 2(or 1) - 3 - 2Also i have this sigils :GREATSWORD ( Berserker ): Sigil of Vitality (restores full endurance when u kill an enemy, so u can dodge and dodge and dodge.Sigil of Presicion (7% crit chance)DAGGER : Sigil of VitalitySHIELD ( or another Dagger) : Sigil of Energy ( Gain 50% of endurance when swap to this weapon in combat)

Also, i have Rune of Fireworks : D175 might / 15% boon duration / 6 seconds of vigor, fury and 6 stacks of power

Correct. The purpose of this discussion is to describe how/why warrior is lacking as a pure power DPS role in end game group content. Other PVE stuff its just fine :)