New thief with some questions about it.

I've decided to put my ranger down for a bit and get my thief to 80 and oh boy is it a lot more fun than I thought thief would be and I'm only level 37. I have some questions about what I should expect end game as what most of what I've read didn't sound promising.

1. How is it as a solo pve profession? I'm not talking clearing groups of trash mobs in open world. I enjoy taking on group content solo to try give me self a challenge. I usually do this on ranger, does thief have the tools to do this? (I'm guessing yes with all the evades and self sustain)
2. I've read it's a terrible dueling class for spvp and thats what I usually like to do (play ranger and warrior mostly in spvp). From the whole design of the class that seems unlikely. Is it more a l2p thing or is it really that bad at it?
3. I only play roaming/small group in wvw. I'm pretty sure it's great at that, would just like some opinions.
4. This isn't a question, but I just tried d/d and death blossom has to visually be one of my favorite skills ever.

1. All Professions are good in PvE. The question is optimal at this point. But thats a different monster.
2. Thief used to be good at deuling back towards launch. However, consecutive nerfs, buffs that aren't fixing problems, and repeated changes to other classes, and thiefs lack of passive defenses makes them horrendous at it. As it stands... Thief is a class where you can't afford mistakes, and the required skill to play it in PvP with lack luster rewards for effort makes it not worth it. I think the majority of the thief pvp players are from launch. Thief is one of the most complained classes before Mesmer became broken. And a large majority of it came from players who never played it, and don't know about it missing a lot of the most basic shit other classes have. You would seriously have an easier time in literally any other class.
3. Yes and no. From problems number 2. You can do hit and run. But be prepared to run a lot.

As a thief... Knowing what other classes do will be the biggest thing that drives your skill. And second to that is mechanical abuse, as Anet obviously had no plans on helping you proper.

If all the other classes got nerfed down To thiefs level. Then it would be a different story. As it stands... Thats likely never going to happen, and thief isn't getting any reasonable love soon.

So if you get attached, expect an abusive relationship with patch notes.

Now to be fair. It looks like Anet is trying. Unhindered Combat is less like shooting yourself in the foot. But the changes to P/D is like ringing the dinner bell now that the escape skill is locked away for four seconds

Daredevil staff is viable i heard for pve, and that is what i was using

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

1. All Professions are good in PvE. The question is optimal at this point. But thats a different monster.
2. Thief used to be good at deuling back towards launch. However, consecutive nerfs, buffs that aren't fixing problems, and repeated changes to other classes, and thiefs lack of passive defenses makes them horrendous at it. As it stands... Thief is a class where you can't afford mistakes, and the required skill to play it in PvP with lack luster rewards for effort makes it not worth it. I think the majority of the thief pvp players are from launch. Thief is one of the most complained classes before Mesmer became broken. And a large majority of it came from players who never played it, and don't know about it missing a lot of the most basic kitten other classes have. You would seriously have an easier time in literally any other class.
3. Yes and no. From problems number 2. You can do hit and run. But be prepared to run a lot.

As a thief... Knowing what other classes do will be the biggest thing that drives your skill. And second to that is mechanical abuse, as Anet obviously had no plans on helping you proper.

If all the other classes got nerfed down To thiefs level. Then it would be a different story. As it stands... Thats likely never going to happen, and thief isn't getting any reasonable love soon.

So if you get attached, expect an abusive relationship with patch notes.

Now to be fair. It looks like Anet is trying. Unhindered Combat is less like shooting yourself in the foot. But the changes to P/D is like ringing the dinner bell now that the escape skill is locked away for four seconds

So it sounds like other than it being fun to play there really is no upside to playing it.

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

1. All Professions are good in PvE. The question is optimal at this point. But thats a different monster.
2. Thief used to be good at deuling back towards launch. However, consecutive nerfs, buffs that aren't fixing problems, and repeated changes to other classes, and thiefs lack of passive defenses makes them horrendous at it. As it stands... Thief is a class where you can't afford mistakes, and the required skill to play it in PvP with lack luster rewards for effort makes it not worth it. I think the majority of the thief pvp players are from launch. Thief is one of the most complained classes before Mesmer became broken. And a large majority of it came from players who never played it, and don't know about it missing a lot of the most basic kitten other classes have. You would seriously have an easier time in literally any other class.
3. Yes and no. From problems number 2. You can do hit and run. But be prepared to run a lot.

As a thief... Knowing what other classes do will be the biggest thing that drives your skill. And second to that is mechanical abuse, as Anet obviously had no plans on helping you proper.

If all the other classes got nerfed down To thiefs level. Then it would be a different story. As it stands... Thats likely never going to happen, and thief isn't getting any reasonable love soon.

So if you get attached, expect an abusive relationship with patch notes.

Now to be fair. It looks like Anet is trying. Unhindered Combat is less like shooting yourself in the foot. But the changes to P/D is like ringing the dinner bell now that the escape skill is locked away for four seconds

Yes and No. In PvE there's an upside to it. Somewhere. PvP not so much.

Thieves used to have more in their kit to help them out in PvP. But a good chunk of it got removed.

Now quite literally, you're fighting for every little advantage over another class you can get. Which the only one that is truely unique to us that no one else can do, is abuse mechanics. Thieves have some amount of Animation cancels, quick combos, and can even link some things together in a single attack. And also combo finishers that can let them stack stealth. But even that is not enough to completely swing a fight in your favor.

And the community will still complain about you. Because they don't treat the thief like it's own thing. And most immediately compare it to a rogue from world of warcraft or something. Basically games with vastly different combat styles and mechanics. Which is extremely unfair given that Warrior doesn't play anything close to warriors from other games. Guardians are able to do some damage and shadowstep. Elementalist is a caster that can absolutely ruin your week in Melee Range. And Mesmers are extremely tanky little shits.

Don't get me wrong. I love ANET. But it's hard to feel anything else than growing dread from balance patches as a thief.

Especially after they gave Backstab a cooldown, rather than just revealing the thief for hitting Aegis.Especially after they made Unhindered Combatant, into "Hindered Combatant" Which ABSOLUTELY DESTROYS your primary means of protecting yourself for dodging while crippled. The only other elite who gets Exhaustion is Mirage, and that's only if they dodge while stunned.After making the change to P/D without really asking the thieves what they thought of it. And thought locking away the escape skill for four long seconds was a good idea.Never fixing Shadow Trap, but gladly gave Scoripon Wire 2 charges... and never increased the projectile speed so it's harder to avoid...and so on... so forth.Shadow Trap was a FANTASTIC utility in sPvP back in launch. And then they nerfed it. Gave it a line of sight requirement. And that line of sight requirement broke it. You can be five feet in front of it, on a flat plane, perfect navmesh, and nothing between you and it. And it will STILL FAIL BECAUSE OF THE LINE OF SIGHTNerfing Auto attack damage... to encourage thieves to use their skills more. But not adjusting the skills damage, nor their initiative costs. Wouldn't be so bad if it didn't feel like their initiative nerfs were under the assumption a thief always takes Trickery.And going back to that Auto attack? It was only 15% total... according to the patch notes. What they don't tell you was how they did it. The first attacks in the auto chain have the LARGEST damage nerfs for dagger. The only way to get the 15% reduction is to land your third hit. And good luck on that!Never addressing thieves complaints about Initiative, where trickery's 3 additional ini and the ini on steal making it a must in PvP for very good reasons. I mean, for crying out loud. People would probably be happy with Preparedness being removed if they have a better means of recharging their ini faster than the traits currently provide. Cuz 1 ini for a dodge is absolutely pathetic. Infiltrator's signet of 1ini every ten seconds is easily ignored.

A month's Hiatus is like playing DnD. Going from 3.5 to 5e as a Bard, and wandering what the crap happened, and why are you so weak. And Mesmer being the Rogue from 3.5 to 5e, where they are broke as all hell, and are able to do everything.

No really. Stick around for the thief threads. 90% of them are talking about ways to get around attoricious nerfs, complaints about the nerfs, 5% non-thieves coming onto the thief boards saying that certain crap needs to get nerfed because they got killed by it too many times, and didn't want to put in the effort to learn to avoid it. 2% video montages, 2% Builds, 1% new Players who we never hear from again. Likely because they realized all of the unaddressed problems thief has.

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

1. All Professions are good in PvE. The question is optimal at this point. But thats a different monster.
2. Thief used to be good at deuling back towards launch. However, consecutive nerfs, buffs that aren't fixing problems, and repeated changes to other classes, and thiefs lack of passive defenses makes them horrendous at it. As it stands... Thief is a class where you can't afford mistakes, and the required skill to play it in PvP with lack luster rewards for effort makes it not worth it. I think the majority of the thief pvp players are from launch. Thief is one of the most complained classes before Mesmer became broken. And a large majority of it came from players who never played it, and don't know about it missing a lot of the most basic kitten other classes have. You would seriously have an easier time in literally any other class.
3. Yes and no. From problems number 2. You can do hit and run. But be prepared to run a lot.

As a thief... Knowing what other classes do will be the biggest thing that drives your skill. And second to that is mechanical abuse, as Anet obviously had no plans on helping you proper.

If all the other classes got nerfed down To thiefs level. Then it would be a different story. As it stands... Thats likely never going to happen, and thief isn't getting any reasonable love soon.

So if you get attached, expect an abusive relationship with patch notes.

Now to be fair. It looks like Anet is trying. Unhindered Combat is less like shooting yourself in the foot. But the changes to P/D is like ringing the dinner bell now that the escape skill is locked away for four seconds

Compared to soulbeast, which is by far and away the strongest solo/small-group class in the game since the latest patch, this is generally correct.

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

1. All Professions are good in PvE. The question is optimal at this point. But thats a different monster.
2. Thief used to be good at deuling back towards launch. However, consecutive nerfs, buffs that aren't fixing problems, and repeated changes to other classes, and thiefs lack of passive defenses makes them horrendous at it. As it stands... Thief is a class where you can't afford mistakes, and the required skill to play it in PvP with lack luster rewards for effort makes it not worth it. I think the majority of the thief pvp players are from launch. Thief is one of the most complained classes before Mesmer became broken. And a large majority of it came from players who never played it, and don't know about it missing a lot of the most basic kitten other classes have. You would seriously have an easier time in literally any other class.
3. Yes and no. From problems number 2. You can do hit and run. But be prepared to run a lot.

As a thief... Knowing what other classes do will be the biggest thing that drives your skill. And second to that is mechanical abuse, as Anet obviously had no plans on helping you proper.

If all the other classes got nerfed down To thiefs level. Then it would be a different story. As it stands... Thats likely never going to happen, and thief isn't getting any reasonable love soon.

So if you get attached, expect an abusive relationship with patch notes.

Now to be fair. It looks like Anet is trying. Unhindered Combat is less like shooting yourself in the foot. But the changes to P/D is like ringing the dinner bell now that the escape skill is locked away for four seconds

I want to second the mechanical abuse part. Two Examples: 180 turn > shadow port of the rifle and also the looking at the ground for the staff before they fixed it (pve raids). Like you have to do weird unintended things to bring it to the next level, and its not like your bringing it to a balanced level, your just making it less junky. The game is more like slowly passing battle ships where there are times when you cant do damage or out damage sustain. What i want is more of a kung fu fight counter... punish counter punish dodge ded.

@Cobrakon.3108 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

1. All Professions are good in PvE. The question is optimal at this point. But thats a different monster.
2. Thief used to be good at deuling back towards launch. However, consecutive nerfs, buffs that aren't fixing problems, and repeated changes to other classes, and thiefs lack of passive defenses makes them horrendous at it. As it stands... Thief is a class where you can't afford mistakes, and the required skill to play it in PvP with lack luster rewards for effort makes it not worth it. I think the majority of the thief pvp players are from launch. Thief is one of the most complained classes before Mesmer became broken. And a large majority of it came from players who never played it, and don't know about it missing a lot of the most basic kitten other classes have. You would seriously have an easier time in literally any other class.
3. Yes and no. From problems number 2. You can do hit and run. But be prepared to run a lot.

As a thief... Knowing what other classes do will be the biggest thing that drives your skill. And second to that is mechanical abuse, as Anet obviously had no plans on helping you proper.

If all the other classes got nerfed down To thiefs level. Then it would be a different story. As it stands... Thats likely never going to happen, and thief isn't getting any reasonable love soon.

So if you get attached, expect an abusive relationship with patch notes.

Now to be fair. It looks like Anet is trying. Unhindered Combat is less like shooting yourself in the foot. But the changes to P/D is like ringing the dinner bell now that the escape skill is locked away for four seconds

Or using Death's Retreat to leap over a gap to give your enemies difficulty.

Or using Infiltrator's Arrow to Climb walls quickly... (PS Mesmer can do it now...)

Or mapping the Sheath weapons to a button so you can......cancel your Cloak and Dagger animation, so you don't spend the expensive as all hell initiative for it and miss....cancel the attack on D/P's 3 skill so you can use it while cloaked, shadow step closer but not break stealth immediately.

Thief in PvP just keeps getting nerfs and nerfs and nerfs.Look at the Dagger auto damage XD. Look at the backstab damage XD. Other class can press 1 button to do more or same damage than your perfectly executed backstab. <3

@bennypig.6428 said:Thief in PvP just keeps getting nerfs and nerfs and nerfs.Look at the Dagger auto damage XD. Look at the backstab damage XD. Other class can press 1 button to do more or same damage than your perfectly executed backstab. <3

BOOOM! ( that means i agree)

So... in short... feel free to join the thieves. Just be aware... when you fall in love with the class, and wish for it to be better, and come onto the board to vent. The only people who will listen to your pain is other thieves. Not ANET, and certainly not the other professions.

And when a Non-thief complains about getting killed by something they don't understand what happens. You can explain what happened, and how to avoid it. But they won't listen.

Normally, I speak more positivily for this class. But that friggen P/D change through that out of the window.

So... welcome to Thief. Grab a wet noodle. And call it a dagger. And go reserve a spot in Ebonhawke grave yard. Dig yourself a grave. And get ready to visit it frequently.

I will say this though...

Winning with Thief is one of the best feelings in the world when you KNOW you outplayed your opponent. Assuming they weren't a PvE'er.

You're gonna hurt and people are going to literally hate you in spvp. In fact, you'll be 100% the blame all of the time - even if you rack in almost 300 offensive points per match. They'll get upset at you not staying in a fight, they'll get upset at you for not decapping fast enough. They'll get upset at you for dying and not making your way to the far node after being revealed and chased by 3 oppenents hoping your team could decap something else! Jaded? Yes...

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

1. All Professions are good in PvE. The question is optimal at this point. But thats a different monster.
2. Thief used to be good at deuling back towards launch. However, consecutive nerfs, buffs that aren't fixing problems, and repeated changes to other classes, and thiefs lack of passive defenses makes them horrendous at it. As it stands... Thief is a class where you can't afford mistakes, and the required skill to play it in PvP with lack luster rewards for effort makes it not worth it. I think the majority of the thief pvp players are from launch. Thief is one of the most complained classes before Mesmer became broken. And a large majority of it came from players who never played it, and don't know about it missing a lot of the most basic kitten other classes have. You would seriously have an easier time in literally any other class.
3. Yes and no. From problems number 2. You can do hit and run. But be prepared to run a lot.

As a thief... Knowing what other classes do will be the biggest thing that drives your skill. And second to that is mechanical abuse, as Anet obviously had no plans on helping you proper.

If all the other classes got nerfed down To thiefs level. Then it would be a different story. As it stands... Thats likely never going to happen, and thief isn't getting any reasonable love soon.

So if you get attached, expect an abusive relationship with patch notes.

Now to be fair. It looks like Anet is trying. Unhindered Combat is less like shooting yourself in the foot. But the changes to P/D is like ringing the dinner bell now that the escape skill is locked away for four seconds

Agreed with all things said. Just don't play thief for pvp. I played 2 seasons got no where. Switched to other classes. Oh boy was it far easier to win.

Can you win? Sure. But it takes a whole lot more skill than the other classes. And if you lose people will hate you.

Apart from ele. Any thing else is better. Heck. Even bunker ele is more effective.