Relocate “Daze and stun durations you inflict last longer." to skirmishing — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Relocate “Daze and stun durations you inflict last longer." to skirmishing

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited August 11, 2019 in Ranger

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https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marksmanship

"Marksmanship is a core specialization for the ranger that focuses on long range damage and the use of signets."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarity

"Gain an attack of opportunity for you and your pet on interrupting a foe. Daze and stun durations you inflict last longer."

Marksmanship is the longbow line, that offers a 50% increase in Daze and Stun durations. Longbow doesn't Daze or Stun. Greatsword and Shortbow have a Daze and Stun.

Please switch https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spotter, from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmishing traitline, for https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarity... OR ADD "Daze and stun durations you inflict last longer." somewhere in the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmishing traitline, like in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Barbs or something... Please? It makes more sense that the Daze and Stun bonus is in a traitline that can improve a weapon that has a Daze or Stun associated to it. Would be really useful to the struggling shortbow builds.

Thanks!

Comments

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree that it would make more sense this way.
    But marksmanship is pretty much bad for quite some years now.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

  • @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Totally agree with you.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    Also i would like to jump in and say, the extra CC duration won't help shortbow at all.

    If the idea is to improve shortbow this is not the right move and something much more substantial would be.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Also i would like to jump in and say, the extra CC duration won't help shortbow at all.

    If the idea is to improve shortbow this is not the right move and something much more substantial would be.

    Yes, shortbow needs more, but it’s a more sensible change.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2019

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2019

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

    Point is this, and I’m not trying to be rude in any way, a trait function that buffs stun and daze doesn’t belong, or make sense, in a trait line devoted to a weapon devoid of any stun or daze period. Shortbow builds are far behind in any wvw or pvp play, unlike the common, and highly effective, lb/gs “me too” builds you see. Lb and gs aren’t underperforming weapons compared to some others, and those others need some extra help where they can get it.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

    Point is this, and I’m not trying to be rude in any way, a trait function that buffs stun and daze doesn’t belong, or make sense, in a trait line devoted to a weapon devoid of any stun or daze period. Shortbow builds are far behind in any wvw or pvp play, unlike the common, and highly effective, lb/gs “me too” builds you see. Lb and gs aren’t underperforming weapons compared to some others, and those others need some extra help where they can get it.

    I would make the argument that the Trait needs to be EXPANDED, rather then moved. The lynch pin of your argument rests on "Marksman is the Long bow trait", which can be quickly dismantled by simply renaming the entire trait line to something like "Huntsman" or "Expertise". Both of those names fit all the contained traits more thematically, and gets past the fact that only 2 out of 9 traits even imply a relationship with the longbow. Plus the Stun part of the trait was an after thought if you look at the history.

    More importantly, Shortbow as a concept needs a serious rethink, since Ranger doesn't even technically have a Condi weapon other then Torch, since all the others are Hybrids. Come to think of it, all the Med classes are kind of built this way, since they get a comparatively large amount of condi generation traits that are independent from their weapons.

    Moment of Clarity's Stun component should be expanded to include increasing the effectiveness of Control Effects (which opens up greater synergy with all the interrupts that Trigger it in the first place), Redesign all the Skirmishing GM traits to better play off of the Hybrid weapons, move shortbow mastery to a master tier, and roll Sharpened Edges or Hidden Barbs effects into the Minor traits (which is what most of the other classes do with Passive bleeds). I would also put serious effort into expanding how Quick Draw's effect is utilized, since its only really effective for certain builds to enhance rotations..... IE its weak for Opportunity plays, and offers little for follow ups.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @starlinvf.1358 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

    Point is this, and I’m not trying to be rude in any way, a trait function that buffs stun and daze doesn’t belong, or make sense, in a trait line devoted to a weapon devoid of any stun or daze period. Shortbow builds are far behind in any wvw or pvp play, unlike the common, and highly effective, lb/gs “me too” builds you see. Lb and gs aren’t underperforming weapons compared to some others, and those others need some extra help where they can get it.

    I would make the argument that the Trait needs to be EXPANDED, rather then moved. The lynch pin of your argument rests on "Marksman is the Long bow trait", which can be quickly dismantled by simply renaming the entire trait line to something like "Huntsman" or "Expertise". Both of those names fit all the contained traits more thematically, and gets past the fact that only 2 out of 9 traits even imply a relationship with the longbow. Plus the Stun part of the trait was an after thought if you look at the history.

    More importantly, Shortbow as a concept needs a serious rethink, since Ranger doesn't even technically have a Condi weapon other then Torch, since all the others are Hybrids. Come to think of it, all the Med classes are kind of built this way, since they get a comparatively large amount of condi generation traits that are independent from their weapons.

    Moment of Clarity's Stun component should be expanded to include increasing the effectiveness of Control Effects (which opens up greater synergy with all the interrupts that Trigger it in the first place), Redesign all the Skirmishing GM traits to better play off of the Hybrid weapons, move shortbow mastery to a master tier, and roll Sharpened Edges or Hidden Barbs effects into the Minor traits (which is what most of the other classes do with Passive bleeds). I would also put serious effort into expanding how Quick Draw's effect is utilized, since its only really effective for certain builds to enhance rotations..... IE its weak for Opportunity plays, and offers little for follow ups.

    I did expand the idea... “OR ADD "Daze and stun durations you inflict last longer." somewhere in the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmishing traitline, like in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Barbs or something...”

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Also i would like to jump in and say, the extra CC duration won't help shortbow at all.

    If the idea is to improve shortbow this is not the right move and something much more substantial would be.

    Generally I'd say improving marksmanship and skirmishing could benefit the profession. Some reasonable streamlining and better synergistic design would benefit buildcrafting in general.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

    Point is this, and I’m not trying to be rude in any way, a trait function that buffs stun and daze doesn’t belong, or make sense, in a trait line devoted to a weapon devoid of any stun or daze period. Shortbow builds are far behind in any wvw or pvp play, unlike the common, and highly effective, lb/gs “me too” builds you see. Lb and gs aren’t underperforming weapons compared to some others, and those others need some extra help where they can get it.

    Look at the link you posted.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarity
    50% stun/daze duration was added later in the game. It's main purpose is NOT to extend the duration of CCs like you claim. It's main purpose was and still is increasing your and your pets next hit after interrupt by 50%. This trait is exactly where it belongs: the power/burst trait line. MM is not just a LB traitline.

    The extra stun/daze duration is a nice bonus to GS but also Druid Dazes, SB Gazelle F2 and any daze/stun on a future elite spec that, fingers crossed, might be announced soon. Short bow and skrim need some love but stun/daze duration MoC is not it.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

    Point is this, and I’m not trying to be rude in any way, a trait function that buffs stun and daze doesn’t belong, or make sense, in a trait line devoted to a weapon devoid of any stun or daze period. Shortbow builds are far behind in any wvw or pvp play, unlike the common, and highly effective, lb/gs “me too” builds you see. Lb and gs aren’t underperforming weapons compared to some others, and those others need some extra help where they can get it.

    Look at the link you posted.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarity
    50% stun/daze duration was added later in the game. It's main purpose is NOT to extend the duration of CCs like you claim. It's main purpose was and still is increasing your and your pets next hit after interrupt by 50%. This trait is exactly where it belongs: the power/burst trait line. MM is not just a LB traitline.

    The extra stun/daze duration is a nice bonus to GS but also Druid Dazes, SB Gazelle F2 and any daze/stun on a future elite spec that, fingers crossed, might be announced soon. Short bow and skrim need some love but stun/daze duration MoC is not it.

    Doesn't work with pets. Does make druid CC better though.

  • stick.7258stick.7258 Member ✭✭

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Quick draw is the coolest trait there is

    o man i have been waiting and trying forever to make something worthwile with quickdraw, such awesome and rich trait

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

    Point is this, and I’m not trying to be rude in any way, a trait function that buffs stun and daze doesn’t belong, or make sense, in a trait line devoted to a weapon devoid of any stun or daze period. Shortbow builds are far behind in any wvw or pvp play, unlike the common, and highly effective, lb/gs “me too” builds you see. Lb and gs aren’t underperforming weapons compared to some others, and those others need some extra help where they can get it.

    Look at the link you posted.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarity
    50% stun/daze duration was added later in the game. It's main purpose is NOT to extend the duration of CCs like you claim. It's main purpose was and still is increasing your and your pets next hit after interrupt by 50%. This trait is exactly where it belongs: the power/burst trait line. MM is not just a LB traitline.

    The extra stun/daze duration is a nice bonus to GS but also Druid Dazes, SB Gazelle F2 and any daze/stun on a future elite spec that, fingers crossed, might be announced soon. Short bow and skrim need some love but stun/daze duration MoC is not it.

    Pets don’t get the buff.

    “Marksmanship - focuses on long range damage and opening strikes. Enhances longbow, harpoon gun, and signet skills.”

    ...Longbow, harpoon gun and signets do not have any stun or daze associated with them...

    Sorry, but the stun and daze buff doesn’t belong in marksmanship period. And nobody would notice something missing, or a loss in performance, on lb/gs builds if the stun and daze were moved in skirmishing for shortbow builds to take advantage of... Or are you saying that lb/gs power builds are weak and desperately need all the extra help they can get? Perhaps we need to load up marksmanship with all sorts of other stuff that boosts greatsword more?

    Listen, condi builds suck outside of pve. Sb is junky and needs work, but this thread is about that 1 trait buff to stun and daze.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

    Point is this, and I’m not trying to be rude in any way, a trait function that buffs stun and daze doesn’t belong, or make sense, in a trait line devoted to a weapon devoid of any stun or daze period. Shortbow builds are far behind in any wvw or pvp play, unlike the common, and highly effective, lb/gs “me too” builds you see. Lb and gs aren’t underperforming weapons compared to some others, and those others need some extra help where they can get it.

    Look at the link you posted.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarity
    50% stun/daze duration was added later in the game. It's main purpose is NOT to extend the duration of CCs like you claim. It's main purpose was and still is increasing your and your pets next hit after interrupt by 50%. This trait is exactly where it belongs: the power/burst trait line. MM is not just a LB traitline.

    The extra stun/daze duration is a nice bonus to GS but also Druid Dazes, SB Gazelle F2 and any daze/stun on a future elite spec that, fingers crossed, might be announced soon. Short bow and skrim need some love but stun/daze duration MoC is not it.

    Pets don’t get the buff.

    You mean this one?
    https://imgur.com/a/v722Tck
    Where my Tiger F2 does 50% more dmg when I actually land an interrupt?
    Also at @Eurantien.4632
    If you are talking about my Gazelle comment, I was referring to the merged soul beast F2 being a daze not the pet F2.

    “Marksmanship - focuses on long range damage and opening strikes. Enhances longbow, harpoon gun, and signet skills.”

    So you are going by the wiki description? Really? Those don't even come from in game. They are just what someone decided to write. I can go an edit that wiki to include enhances CC too. MM is not only about longbow. No single trait line should be dedicated to a single weapon. That is bad design because every build needs at least 3 trait lines.

    50% stun/daze duration fits along with the main purpose of the trait, bonus power damage after interrupts. The slightly longer CC helps land the following bonus hit. Also, since I do occasionally run power Druid (PvE), the stun/daze duration would be missed. That's 50% less on break bars in PvE on glyph of equality, storm spirit active, CA3, GS5 and primal echoes.

    Listen, condi builds suck outside of pve. Sb is junky and needs work, but this thread is about that 1 trait buff to stun and daze.

    Listen, 50% stun/daze duration isn't helping condi builds outside of PvE. Best case scenario, the 50% bonus to short bow 5, only if you get a flanking stun, gives you 2 more auto attacks into someones back. Ranger condi builds have easy access to immobilize and condition duration. Since immob also prevents rotating your character, buffing immob or giving shortbow better capacity to flank is a much better buff than 50% stun/daze duration.

    Basically replace short bow 3 with
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthen_Rush
    and you probably have a much better chance of condi ranger working in PvP/WvW because it can get into position and hold an enemy down for a flanking shot. You would still be able to about face to run away with it too.

    Give sword 3/dagger 4 bonus conditions if you hit an enemies flank (bonus immob/more poison stacks). Change 10% crit while flanking to 2 stacks of poison when you hit an enemy flank (~3 second ICD).

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Moment of clarity used to be a skirmishing grandmaster trait. I used it for a power ranger build in the world tournament series with skirmishing and marksmanship. The move to marksmanship has actually been a big boon for us. As it stands, moment of clarity synergizes wonderfully with two handed training in beast mastery and remorseless on marksmanship, allowing for some huge dps following interrupts. Moving that to skirmishing would be be a step backwards in a way.

    Honestly, without moment of clarity in marksmanship, not sure id run Marksmanship, even though I think clarion bond is one of the best reasons to run it for PvP.

    Sure, I can understand and accept synergy, but lb/gs builds are already very effective and pretty common. Condi based builds need more help outside of pve, and so does the Shortbow. Even if the traits aren’t swapped, the daze and stun buff would be more useful in skirmishing for any type of shortbow builds.

    Unfortunately it still wouldn't make it viable. Buff shortbow up 3s daze/stun and it still wouldn't be viable because shortbow has no follow up for damage. You'd just swap weapons for more dmg...

    And gs doesn’t need it considering the potential damage output. But the daze and stun buff doesn’t need to be in the longbow line.

    Maybe not, but the damage buff on interrupt is definitely good with longbow, and the fact GS is easily paired with LB, makes the damage buff on interrupt pair very well with GS and so does the stun and daze duration for GS...

    In a way it's like because you're using longbow and invested in marskmanship, you should use GS too. Which is kind of cool from a synergy point for view. Because your have marksmanship traits essentially just for longbow with that other master trait that gives 5% to 10% more damage and lead the wind.... but you also have the option to run these trait lines of moment of Claire and remorseless that not only help longbow but also GS because you will have to go into melee range and thats cool...

    Now skirmishing does have some of the coolest traits in this game. Quickness on dodge. Quick draw is the coolest trait there is... yet there are to date no builds (for PvP) that can make use of skirmishing.

    Personally, I don't think moment of clarity should be move but instead, skirmishing should get some kind of trait for Condi clear on swiftness or quickness gain or something so that we can be freed from the shackles of wilderness survival, hopefully grab the Shortbow trait too. And then maybe we can actually have a skirmishing shortbow build, or at least, hope for skirmishing.

    Point is this, and I’m not trying to be rude in any way, a trait function that buffs stun and daze doesn’t belong, or make sense, in a trait line devoted to a weapon devoid of any stun or daze period. Shortbow builds are far behind in any wvw or pvp play, unlike the common, and highly effective, lb/gs “me too” builds you see. Lb and gs aren’t underperforming weapons compared to some others, and those others need some extra help where they can get it.

    Look at the link you posted.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moment_of_Clarity
    50% stun/daze duration was added later in the game. It's main purpose is NOT to extend the duration of CCs like you claim. It's main purpose was and still is increasing your and your pets next hit after interrupt by 50%. This trait is exactly where it belongs: the power/burst trait line. MM is not just a LB traitline.

    The extra stun/daze duration is a nice bonus to GS but also Druid Dazes, SB Gazelle F2 and any daze/stun on a future elite spec that, fingers crossed, might be announced soon. Short bow and skrim need some love but stun/daze duration MoC is not it.

    Pets don’t get the buff.

    You mean this one?
    https://imgur.com/a/v722Tck
    Where my Tiger F2 does 50% more dmg when I actually land an interrupt?
    Also at @Eurantien.4632
    If you are talking about my Gazelle comment, I was referring to the merged soul beast F2 being a daze not the pet F2.

    “Marksmanship - focuses on long range damage and opening strikes. Enhances longbow, harpoon gun, and signet skills.”

    So you are going by the wiki description? Really? Those don't even come from in game. They are just what someone decided to write. I can go an edit that wiki to include enhances CC too. MM is not only about longbow. No single trait line should be dedicated to a single weapon. That is bad design because every build needs at least 3 trait lines.

    50% stun/daze duration fits along with the main purpose of the trait, bonus power damage after interrupts. The slightly longer CC helps land the following bonus hit. Also, since I do occasionally run power Druid (PvE), the stun/daze duration would be missed. That's 50% less on break bars in PvE on glyph of equality, storm spirit active, CA3, GS5 and primal echoes.

    Listen, condi builds suck outside of pve. Sb is junky and needs work, but this thread is about that 1 trait buff to stun and daze.


    Listen, 50% stun/daze duration isn't helping condi builds outside of PvE. Best case scenario, the 50% bonus to short bow 5, only if you get a flanking stun, gives you 2 more auto attacks into someones back. Ranger condi builds have easy access to immobilize and condition duration. Since immob also prevents rotating your character, buffing immob or giving shortbow better capacity to flank is a much better buff than 50% stun/daze duration.

    Basically replace short bow 3 with
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthen_Rush
    and you probably have a much better chance of condi ranger working in PvP/WvW because it can get into position and hold an enemy down for a flanking shot. You would still be able to about face to run away with it too.

    Give sword 3/dagger 4 bonus conditions if you hit an enemies flank (bonus immob/more poison stacks). Change 10% crit while flanking to 2 stacks of poison when you hit an enemy flank (~3 second ICD).

    I’m talking about the daze and stun duration. I don’t give a hoot about anything else. Again, I don’t care about anything except the daze and stun being in a better, and more sensible place, and where it’s better needed.

    I know some of you are very hung up on your 1800+ lb zerker 1 shot gs set up, but I don’t care. I care about other build options, and sb is one that needs help.

    I’m not here to discuss what changes sb needs, this is about the stun and daze buff that serves zero purpose in the lb, spear gun and signet traitline.

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Please follow me here...

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marksmanship

    "Marksmanship is a core specialization for the ranger that focuses on long range damage and the use of signets."

    That description, and the name of the trait line, is seriously outdated. Made sense way back when we had 4 different traits for bows, and Marksmanship had 3 of them. It's a power build line with an arbitrary name, and that's why the longbow - as the power weapon it is - kept its trait in that line

    MoC fits perfectly where it is, and so does Spotter. They would have to rework the AoO effect if shortbow was to gain anything out of it. If you want shortbow builds, look at improvements for skirmishing and the weapon itself.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097

    ah yeah, I totally forgot the merge skill was also a daze, my bad!

  • Rather than move a trait entirely, a compromise would to break it up. Keep Moment of Clarity in Marksmanship and move the extended stun and daze duration onto Two-Handed Mastery.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wondrouswall.7169 said:
    Rather than move a trait entirely, a compromise would to break it up. Keep Moment of Clarity in Marksmanship and move the extended stun and daze duration onto Two-Handed Mastery.

    Ask yourself this, what weapon needs more help in wvw and spvp... greatsword or shortbow?

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    Ask yourself this, what weapon needs more help in wvw and spvp... greatsword or shortbow?

    Now, ask yourself this, what would extending daze/stuns to shortbow really do for it?

    Moment of Clarity is not the trait(s) to do this with. If you want to look at traits, look at the ones in Skirmishing and Wilderness Survival.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wondrouswall.7169 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Ask yourself this, what weapon needs more help in wvw and spvp... greatsword or shortbow?

    Now, ask yourself this, what would extending daze/stuns to shortbow really do for it?

    Moment of Clarity is not the trait(s) to do this with. If you want to look at traits, look at the ones in Skirmishing and Wilderness Survival.

    Are you saying that you really need extra 50% daze duration on a weapon that can potentially 1 shot another player? That’s where you want it? Maybe we need to load up lb and gs even more?

    I don’t care about the entire trait really...
    “ OR ADD "Daze and stun durations you inflict last longer." somewhere in the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmishing traitline, like in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Barbs or something...”

  • Wondrouswall.7169Wondrouswall.7169 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2019

    It's not needed, but at least it fits with the weapon. Meanwhile, having extended stun and daze durations has never been a top priority for shortbow users.

    Not having to shotgun poison volley is.

    The stun/daze is just there to disrupt. A better option is to have a trait in Skirmishing that grants a bonus or effect for disrupting an opponent rather than extending it. It fits in more with shortbow's style than a longer CC does.

    Edit: Like confusion which fits the name of SB5. Or extended cooldowns for interrupting an opponent. Anything really. Even a condition like slow.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2019

    @Wondrouswall.7169 said:
    It's not needed, but at least it fits with the weapon. Meanwhile, having extended stun and daze durations has never been a top priority for shortbow users.

    Not having to shotgun poison volley is.

    The stun/daze is just there to disrupt. A better option is to have a trait in Skirmishing that grants a bonus or effect for disrupting an opponent rather than extending it. It fits in more with shortbow's style than a longer CC does.

    Edit: Like confusion which fits the name of SB5. Or extended cooldowns for interrupting an opponent. Anything really. Even a condition like slow.

    Correct, the additional daze duration, that happens to reside in the longbow marksmanship line, doesn’t need to be there, or even inside the beast master line to help buff an already well performing greatsword. It makes much more sense to put the additional daze duration buff in a trait line that can actually help improve on an underperforming cc weapon that has a daze attached to it.

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