Is there anything immune to Kralkatorrik's corruption?

My observation of the other dragons

Zhaitan: Flesh, anything with flesh or once were flesh. Some ghosts could escape its control while their body was still made Risen. So anything is not flesh could probably avoid its corruption. The blue orb could prevent it.

Jormag: Ice and Soul, it corrupt people through mind and soul. It could also corrupt ice elemental maybe through its ice nature. Cutting off the mental connection could stop the corruption. So anything that doesn't have a soul and isn't made of ice could not be corrupted.

Mordremoth: Plant and Mind, any plant or anything could enter the dream mind realm of it could be corrupted.

So how about Kralkatorrik? Its corruption has very wild range, from elementals to energy to flesh. Maybe anything that is physical?

Zhaitan corrupted the air, water, and land (and plants, should you separate that from flesh). So not related to flesh.

Jormag turns things into ice, doesn't just corrupt ice. We see him corrupting flesh, ice, land, and water.

Mordremoth corrupted plants, we see him corrupt animals and land too.

Basically, all Elder Dragons can corrupt all things - or at least all things physical/elemental. But some Elder Dragons focus on one thing over another. Zhaitan focused on corpses, but corrupted all things.

The only thing any Elder Dragon isn't seen corrupting is the soul. Though Jormag is said to corrupt the soul as well by kodan and I want to say Eir says it too, so he may be an exception there.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Zhaitan corrupted the air, water, and land (and plants, should you separate that from flesh). So not related to flesh.

But it couldn't make these Risen. What I'm talking about is can they make minions through it.

For some strange reason, Almorra was resistant to his corruption and is the only living being who wasn't Branded during his first flight, even though he went right overhead.

There's also that secluded den where Kileen was buried which seems immune from the encroaching storm and corrupt earth.

As a Sylvari, does Mordremoth's magic overrule the Branded magic, or does it not work that way since the Pale Tree is 'purified' somehow?

@Chorne.8195 said:As a Sylvari, does Mordremoth's magic overrule the Branded magic, or does it not work that way since the Pale Tree is 'purified' somehow?

Honestly, ArenaNet could change their mind at any moment about that one. The answer used to be a flat "no", but Kralkatorrik probably absorbed some of Zhaitan and Mordremoth's plant zombie juice. Does that mean he can now find a way to brand sylvari where he couldn't before? Who can say at this point.

@Athrenn.9468 said:For some strange reason, Almorra was resistant to his corruption and is the only living being who wasn't Branded during his first flight, even though he went right overhead.She wasn't resistant, just lucky. Her story might not be entirely reliable in positioning, but basically, she wasn't hit by the Brand like her warband was.There's also that secluded den where Killeen was buried which seems immune from the encroaching storm and corrupt earth.It's not in the middle of the Brand, though, but on the edge of it. I believe the story mentioned they decided to bury Killeen once they finished crossing the Brand, meaning it was always outside the Brand. It just so happens to be in the corner of that map. At most, a tree grew over her grave and animals have gathered around it.

As for the original question, I believe it was mentioned that the ghosts were immune to being corrupted by Kralkatorrik near the Lair of the Forgotten, but I might have misinterpreted the conversation. Sylvari are supposedly immune, but that immunity to dragon magic hasn't been mentioned since the personal story. Of the humanoid races, we've only seen Branded humans, charr and ogres. No norn or asura although they could easily have entered the area.

@Athrenn.9468 said:For some strange reason, Almorra was resistant to his corruption and is the only living being who wasn't Branded during his first flight, even though he went right overhead.

The assumption one could make (which another poster pointed out on another thread), is that where she was located was where "splash damage" occurred. She was lucky enough to stand at a small area the corruption didn't hit, leading to her avoiding it.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Zhaitan corrupted the air, water, and land (and plants, should you separate that from flesh). So not related to flesh.

But it couldn't make these Risen. What I'm talking about is can they make minions through it.

How are you so sure it couldn't make minions out of the land? I mean, not all branded are corrupted living beings, why should all of Zhaitan's minions be such?

Dragon corruption, at its core, is to change Material A into Material B, regardless of what Material A is. Material B tends to always be the first domain of the dragon. So if Zhaitan were to want to turn soil into a minion, it could. It just, presumably, wouldn't be soil anymore.

@Athrenn.9468 said:For some strange reason, Almorra was resistant to his corruption and is the only living being who wasn't Branded during his first flight, even though he went right overhead.

There's also that secluded den where Kileen was buried which seems immune from the encroaching storm and corrupt earth.

She wasn't resistant. She got missed. So we were told by devs long ago. She was on the outer edge of the Dragonbrand, where the corruption becomes spotty, and was lucky to be in a spot not branded while those around her were.

Similarly, Killeen was buried on the edge of the Dragonbrand, not within. While the Dragonbrand is said to be spreading at some parts, as we see more clearly in Augury Rock this spread can be stemmed by crushing the initial "seed crystals" which spread the Dragonbrand.

@Chorne.8195 said:As a Sylvari, does Mordremoth's magic overrule the Branded magic, or does it not work that way since the Pale Tree is 'purified' somehow?

What we've been told is that the sylvari's "immunity" did not come from Mordremoth, but the Dream. The Dream doesn't come from Mordremoth, so it would not have suffered with its death. Kralkatorrik taking over plant wouldn't affect sylvari "immunity" either.

The only way for Kralkatorrik - or another Elder Dragon - to be able to affect sylvari, presumably, is to have gained access to the Dream and to have taken over the mass telepathy capabilities that were Mordremoth's domain of mind.

Unless Almorra's entire story is a boldfaced lie, she most certainly was under the dragon's flight path and within arm's reach of others in her warband who were changed, but not her. There really is no room for her being outside the area of effect if her story checks out and we have a graphic, moment by moment recounting of what happened on that day from her perspective.

Forbeck, Matt. Guild Wars: Ghosts of Ascalon (p. 97-100). Pocket Books. Kindle Edition:

! Her next words were heavy with emotion and memory. “I was there. Four years ago, when Kralkatorrik, the Crystal Dragon, awoke. I was in the Dragonbrand.”! Dougal felt slightly ill. “I—I didn’t know anyone survived that.”! Soulkeeper grunted. “I served as a legionnaire in the Blood Legion at the time. Our centurion was in charge of interdicting enemy supplies and was overseeing the scores of our finest warbands stationed there. I was on patrol with my own warband in eastern Ascalon when the Crystal Dragon stirred.! “I felt it first rather than heard it. The creature’s coming warped everything around it, and the vibrations reached me through the air, not as a low thunder but a strange feeling that reached into my bones and made every bit of my fur stand on end.! “Harthog Soulslasher, my second-in-command, saw it before the rest of us, coming over the edge of the mountains behind us, flying in from the north like an angry sun come to Tyria to scorch us all. Harthog was one of the bravest charr I’d ever known, but I saw his eyes bulge with terror as he raised his arm to point at the dragon.! “The others turned to see what could terrify such a charr as Soulslasher, but I reached out and grabbed my friend by the shoulders to shake the fear from him. As I did, I saw the changes start to take him.! “His eyes began to glow an unearthly purple, and his muzzle shrank back into his face, becoming like the soft but toothy maw of a giant leech. His fur became transparent as his armor sloughed off his thinning shoulders and his arms transformed into flailing, shard-like claws. The skin peeled back from his face, and his lips and nose and eyelids shriveled up and fell away.! “And then he turned into living glass, crystallizing in an instant before my eyes into his twisted form. And at my back, I could feel a pressure, like a great hand was pressing down on the entire world as the dragon passed overhead.! “Despite the fact the dragon soared hundreds of feet above us, its passage turned the land beneath the path of its flight black and transformed the plants into crystalline monstrosities. At the same time, the screams from the rest of my warband tore at my ears.! “I drew my blade just before the creature that had been Soulslasher attacked, his splintered claws reaching for me as he screeched in horror at what he had become and the hunger that now drove him to drool at the thought of devouring me alive. I don’t know what spared me from sharing his fate. Every other member of our warband succumbed to it. I was standing no more than a foot from Harthog, and he and the others were warped beyond recognition, yet I was spared.! “I slew the thing that had been Soulslasher then, but after I tore out his throat, his body kept coming at me. I had to shatter him into pieces to finally put him down. Then I turned, in the deafening silence after the dragon’s passage, and saw the rest of my warband trying to kill each other, each twisted in a unique and horrible way.! “I waited for my warsiblings to tear each other apart, then stepped in and dispatched the survivors as best I could. When it was done, I looked before and behind me and saw that every part of the land that had passed beneath the dragon had been twisted in this same way. The grass shattered under my feet as I walked on it, grinding it into sand.”! “The Dragonbrand.” Dougal breathed the word with horrified respect.! Soulkeeper nodded. “The curse the dragon laid upon the land stretched for untold miles in the direction of the flight, coming from the north and reaching for the south. Everything in its path had been turned to crystal: the trees, the animals, even the land itself nearby.! “The worst part of it all is that the dragon didn’t care about the destruction it caused. It was going elsewhere, on a mission known only to itself. To it, the Dragonbrand was worth nothing more than your boot prints are to you. We might as well have been ants. Everything I lost that day mattered to it not one bit.! “I fell into my own personal darkness, my friends slain by a force greater than I could hope to confront.” General Almorra Soulkeeper seemed to forget that Dougal was there, her lips drawn back over bared teeth. “I became a gladium, a charr without a warband, and refused any aid in my darkness. At last, with the help of a few unlikely allies, I came to myself and knew what had to be done.! “I knew then that this was no foe that a single people could confront,” Soulkeeper said. “To have any hope of defeating an Elder Dragon, the peoples of Tyria would have to band together to fight it.”

@Athrenn.9468 said:Unless Almorra's entire story is a boldfaced lie, she most certainly was under the dragon's flight path and within arm's reach of others in her warband who were changed, but not her. There really is no room for her being outside the area of effect if her story checks out and we have a graphic, moment by moment recounting of what happened on that day from her perspective.

Forbeck, Matt. Guild Wars: Ghosts of Ascalon (p. 97-100). Pocket Books. Kindle Edition:

! Her next words were heavy with emotion and memory. “I was there. Four years ago, when Kralkatorrik, the Crystal Dragon, awoke. I was in the Dragonbrand.”! Dougal felt slightly ill. “I—I didn’t know anyone survived that.”! Soulkeeper grunted. “I served as a legionnaire in the Blood Legion at the time. Our centurion was in charge of interdicting enemy supplies and was overseeing the scores of our finest warbands stationed there. I was on patrol with my own warband in eastern Ascalon when the Crystal Dragon stirred.! “I felt it first rather than heard it. The creature’s coming warped everything around it, and the vibrations reached me through the air, not as a low thunder but a strange feeling that reached into my bones and made every bit of my fur stand on end.! “Harthog Soulslasher, my second-in-command, saw it before the rest of us, coming over the edge of the mountains behind us, flying in from the north like an angry sun come to Tyria to scorch us all. Harthog was one of the bravest charr I’d ever known, but I saw his eyes bulge with terror as he raised his arm to point at the dragon.! “The others turned to see what could terrify such a charr as Soulslasher, but I reached out and grabbed my friend by the shoulders to shake the fear from him. As I did, I saw the changes start to take him.! “His eyes began to glow an unearthly purple, and his muzzle shrank back into his face, becoming like the soft but toothy maw of a giant leech. His fur became transparent as his armor sloughed off his thinning shoulders and his arms transformed into flailing, shard-like claws. The skin peeled back from his face, and his lips and nose and eyelids shriveled up and fell away.! “And then he turned into living glass, crystallizing in an instant before my eyes into his twisted form. And at my back, I could feel a pressure, like a great hand was pressing down on the entire world as the dragon passed overhead.! “Despite the fact the dragon soared hundreds of feet above us, its passage turned the land beneath the path of its flight black and transformed the plants into crystalline monstrosities. At the same time, the screams from the rest of my warband tore at my ears.! “I drew my blade just before the creature that had been Soulslasher attacked, his splintered claws reaching for me as he screeched in horror at what he had become and the hunger that now drove him to drool at the thought of devouring me alive. I don’t know what spared me from sharing his fate. Every other member of our warband succumbed to it. I was standing no more than a foot from Harthog, and he and the others were warped beyond recognition, yet I was spared.! “I slew the thing that had been Soulslasher then, but after I tore out his throat, his body kept coming at me. I had to shatter him into pieces to finally put him down. Then I turned, in the deafening silence after the dragon’s passage, and saw the rest of my warband trying to kill each other, each twisted in a unique and horrible way.! “I waited for my warsiblings to tear each other apart, then stepped in and dispatched the survivors as best I could. When it was done, I looked before and behind me and saw that every part of the land that had passed beneath the dragon had been twisted in this same way. The grass shattered under my feet as I walked on it, grinding it into sand.”! “The Dragonbrand.” Dougal breathed the word with horrified respect.! Soulkeeper nodded. “The curse the dragon laid upon the land stretched for untold miles in the direction of the flight, coming from the north and reaching for the south. Everything in its path had been turned to crystal: the trees, the animals, even the land itself nearby.! “The worst part of it all is that the dragon didn’t care about the destruction it caused. It was going elsewhere, on a mission known only to itself. To it, the Dragonbrand was worth nothing more than your boot prints are to you. We might as well have been ants. Everything I lost that day mattered to it not one bit.! “I fell into my own personal darkness, my friends slain by a force greater than I could hope to confront.” General Almorra Soulkeeper seemed to forget that Dougal was there, her lips drawn back over bared teeth. “I became a gladium, a charr without a warband, and refused any aid in my darkness. At last, with the help of a few unlikely allies, I came to myself and knew what had to be done.! “I knew then that this was no foe that a single people could confront,” Soulkeeper said. “To have any hope of defeating an Elder Dragon, the peoples of Tyria would have to band together to fight it.”

ANet REALLY needs to start filling in plot holes and avoid silly things like this in the future. Rule of cool and certain tropes can only go so far.

Sylvari are immune to all dragon corruption outside of mordremoths, so I assume they are a good peg to throw into this.

@Athrenn.9468 said:Unless Almorra's entire story is a boldfaced lie, she most certainly was under the dragon's flight path and within arm's reach of others in her warband who were changed, but not her. There really is no room for her being outside the area of effect if her story checks out and we have a graphic, moment by moment recounting of what happened on that day from her perspective.Again, she was, she was on the outer edge of it in the part where the brand's corruption wasn't 100% effective, and there were spots that weren't corrupted, as Konig pointed out.

These two things are not contradictory.

@Athrenn.9468 said:Unless Almorra's entire story is a boldfaced lie, she most certainly was under the dragon's flight path and within arm's reach of others in her warband who were changed, but not her. There really is no room for her being outside the area of effect if her story checks out and we have a graphic, moment by moment recounting of what happened on that day from her perspective.

Go to any map with the Dragonbrand - Vabbi and Elon Riverlands are best though to show this - and you will see on the edge it turns from solid dragonbrand to patchy dragonbrand to no dragonbrand.

If you go to the top of Blazeridge Steppes, the site of Almorra's warband's corruption is on the edge of the Dragonbrand. While the commune point itself is in clear Dragonbrand, not far from it would be patchy dragonbrand.

She could be under the dragon's flight (Kralkatorrik IS larger than the width of the Dragonbrand after all) while on the outer edge of the Dragonbrand allowing her to avoid being branded while those in front and behind her are corrupted.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Sylvari are immune to all dragon corruption outside of mordremoths, so I assume they are a good peg to throw into this.

While for the sake of the topic's argument, accurate enough, this is not actually the case. For starters, their immunity is not really immunity so much as "they die instead of becoming corrupted". The Exalted have actual immunity (they cannot be corrupted and they do not die when touched by corruption).

Sylvari are also immune to Mordremoth's corruption, but Mordremoth is able to "circumvent" this due to his access to the Dream. The Mordrem Guard are not corrupted, as we see during Buried Insights they're able to revert from following Mordremoth's will - something that is literally impossible without some sort of active interference (e.g., the Forgotten ritual used on Glint).

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Athrenn.9468 said:Unless Almorra's entire story is a boldfaced lie, she most certainly was under the dragon's flight path and within arm's reach of others in her warband who were changed, but not her. There really is no room for her being outside the area of effect if her story checks out and we have a graphic, moment by moment recounting of what happened on that day from her perspective.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Sylvari are immune to all dragon corruption outside of mordremoths, so I assume they are a good peg to throw into this.

The last part only makes HoT more annoying to me. Was it ever mentioned how is it possible for Sylvari to be minions to Mordremoth in spite of being immune to his own corruption? The Dream is also, apparently, completely outside of Mordremoth (a realm of the Mists?). I wish they didn't turn their most intricate dragon into a stump so fast, there's still so much to be discussed regarding Sylvari and Mordy.

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

The last part only makes HoT more annoying to me. Was it ever mentioned how is it possible for Sylvari to be minions to Mordremoth in spite of being immune to his own corruption? The Dream is also, apparently, completely outside of Mordremoth (a realm of the Mists?). I wish they didn't turn their most intricate dragon into a stump so fast, there's still so much to be discussed regarding Sylvari and Mordy.It's not "corruption" at all.

The Sylvari are dragon creation, Mordremoth simply resumed his control over them.

@maxwelgm.4315 said:The last part only makes HoT more annoying to me. Was it ever mentioned how is it possible for Sylvari to be minions to Mordremoth in spite of being immune to his own corruption? The Dream is also, apparently, completely outside of Mordremoth (a realm of the Mists?). I wish they didn't turn their most intricate dragon into a stump so fast, there's still so much to be discussed regarding Sylvari and Mordy.

Yes, hinted in Season 2 Episode 3's first instance (for sylvari PC only), and outright clarified in multiple HoT promotion articles. While the Dream - via the connection with the Pale Tree - provides "protection" from dragon corruption, Mordremoth's connection to the Dream allowed him to circumvent this; he utilized the same channels of the Wyld Hunts and Dark Hunts the Dream and Nightmare utilized to whisper into the sylvari's minds. In doing so, he often (at least at first?) made the whispers sound like their own thoughts - making the individual think that the ideas and thoughts were their own. (In retrospect, it seems this is what he did to Scarlet Briar hence her claims in the end of Season 1 "they're my plans! Mine!"). Sometimes, as we see with the PC and arguably Aerin given the latter's attitude, Mordremoth doesn't bother hiding the origins of the thoughts.

Pale Tree: There are those who reject my protection. It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. I shield you as best I can and will for as long as I can.Pact Commander: You're talking about dragon corruption. We've been immune to it.Pale Tree: Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth's corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth's corruption can change you.Pact Commander: Scarlet?Pale Tree: I believe she opened herself to it when she let down the wall of her mind. Mordremoth's corruption seeps in through the cracks in our willpower. Do not follow in her footsteps.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rallying_Call

Do note that the above is from before the sylvari reveal, so the Pale Tree is telling the truth but not the whole truth. But here, the Pale Tree makes it a point to stress that it is not the sylvari's origins that offer protection, but their connection to the Pale Tree - one that Scarlet had removed, and one others do (Soundless).

The Elder Dragon can implant thoughts in its creations—thoughts they may even believe to be their own—and only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/

Occam: Commander? What's going on out there? Some of my former comrades in the Pact don't seem to distinguish between Mordrem and sylvari.Pact Commander: It's Mordremoth. The dragon's influence turns some sylvari bad.Occam: That explains the terrible voice I hear and the strange thoughts I've been having. But I know who I am, and I swear to you--I am not some Mordrem thrall.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prisoners_of_the_Dragon

Basically, the Dream provides "immunity" to dragon corruption. But Mordremoth's connection to the Dream gave him the means to bypass that "immunity".

So, in theory, sylvari without that protection - without the Dream - such as Malyck should be vulnerable to any dragon's corruption.

There is a bit of confusion in some points, particularly in Season 2, with how the Soundless should be effected. Until Heart of Thorns, there were plenty of dialogue to indicate that Soundlessness would be the surest way to fall to Mordremoth, but with the promotion articles for HoT, the opposite seemed true.

The co-authors of Ghosts of Ascalon made it very clear that Almorra was within physical proximity of those others who had been Branded, even going so far as to say that she was physically touching her second-in-command on the shoulder as it happened. According to her own recounting of events, she was less than a foot away from Harthog and would have had her hand right on top of his shoulder. Distance was not a factor. No matter how you try to imagine her physical placement, the authors were sure to emphasize the fact that Almorra was in physical contact with another member of her warband right as he was Branded. That's close enough for her body to have been within range of the effects, including her hand and forearm which were resting on top of Harthog's body right as the corrupting energy field swept through them.

If you're standing less than a foot away from what got corrupted, while within an area that is not corrupted, then you would be "standing less than a foot away from having been corrupted". It is not "a foot away from what got corrupted, and in the path of corruption as well".

Distance was a factor.

It should also be noted that she didn't grab him as the corruption touched him, but rather as the corruption turned him.

As I did, I saw the changes start to take him.

Or rather: "As I touched him, I saw the changes begin to show on his body."

What she is saying is that she only began to see the transformation as she reached out and touched him, not that as she touched him the corrupting energies washed over him.

Two very different things.

Distance would not have been a factor at all from Almorra's positioning as described in the novel.

Try to imagine Kralkatorrik flying in from the north and Harthog pointing in that direction. Almorra turns to place a hand on his shoulder, eyes facing south with her back to the north. Note how she describes the pressure coming down on her back first? That's because she had her back facing north at the time and Harthog was less than a foot to the south within arm's reach, one arm outstretched and pointing north.

With Almorra directly between Kralkatorrik and Harthog, he would have had to fly over her head in order for Harthog to be affected.

You are, once more, ignoring the fact that the edge of the brand is spotted.

You seem to be adamantly refusing the concept that the brand doesn't end in a perfectly solid line. This is where you're slapping in fanon instead of listening to canon.

Put it this way, given all the facts, and not just Almorra's retelling which would undoubtably be faced with dramatization, Harthog was likely to Almorra's south, while Kralkatorrik to Almorra's north by northeast. Not a straight line as you're implying, and that small part where Harthog was would be where the imperfect edge of the Dragonbrand corrupted while where Almorra stood would be where the imperfect edge of the Dragonbrand didn't corrupt.

And as I pointed out in my previous post, Almorra was not touching Harthog as he was corrupted, but was touching him as she first noticed the physical changes that corruption cause.

Furthermore, there was developer comments confirming that Almorra was simply just outside, on the edge, of the Dragonbrand while her warband wasn't.

It would help if you posted said comments here so that the primary source is open for review. I couldn't find any quotes by Jeff Grubb referring to Almorra Soulkeeper but if you know where it was said then I'd be happy to take a look myself, but until I've seen the wording verbatim we've reached an impasse since there's not much else to be said about the matter.

I think there's an event somewhere around Serenity Temple that establishes that Ascalonian ghosts are specifically immune from Kralkatorrik's corruption - I can't remember where, though, and dialogue for events is really poorly documented on the wiki.

Given Sohothin's role in the Path of Fire story, I think this is something that should definitely not be overlooked.

@Athrenn.9468 said:It would help if you posted said comments here so that the primary source is open for review. I couldn't find any quotes by Jeff Grubb referring to Almorra Soulkeeper but if you know where it was said then I'd be happy to take a look myself, but until I've seen the wording verbatim we've reached an impasse since there's not much else to be said about the matter.

I would have done so immediately, if I could remember where it was. But it was an old interview so I don't recall where it was, just that it was said.

The Elder Dragons can only corrupt those who are weak. A lot of Sylvari resisted Mord and a lot of Norn resisted Jormag (Jora resisted Jormag while her brother got corrupted), just as Almorra resisted Kral. She has this to say; "I stood beneath the dragon as it passed overhead. I survived where others did not." (introduction to vigil cutscene)