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Clones/Phantasms

Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

Hello all,

So I had always question a certain....validity of summoning clones/phantasms due to the sheer number I see other Mirages summon/shatter. Mostly with condi builds, I notice there are a lot of clones being shattered at one time (one fight I counted 5 coming at me), however no idea how they get so many out in a super short period of time. I main mesmer in WvW (DPS) and this is one aspect I seem to lack in...having so many out/shattering at one time.

Any tips on how to achieve max cloneage (I run GS/Axe+Torch)

TIA

Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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Comments

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Hello all,

    So I had always question a certain....validity of summoning clones/phantasms due to the sheer number I see other Mirages summon/shatter. Mostly with condi builds, I notice there are a lot of clones being shattered at one time (one fight I counted 5 coming at me), however no idea how they get so many out in a super short period of time. I main mesmer in WvW (DPS) and this is one aspect I seem to lack in...having so many out/shattering at one time.

    Any tips on how to achieve max cloneage (I run GS/Axe+Torch)

    TIA

    dont run gs/axe+torch

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    but in all seriousness, Power mes uses clones to shatter, for damage. thats why you make clones -> shatter them, 1-2 at once.
    thats why there is no clutter.
    what condi does is perma 3 clones, when you are about to get extras, shatter -> immidietly get more, thats why you see 3 running at you, 4th one becouse of ambush and 2 staff phantasms becoming clones.
    tldr cmirage keeps clones and shatters only when he is about to get new ones anyways so there is clutter, power mes doesnt do it so there is no clutter.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    but in all seriousness, Power mes uses clones to shatter, for damage. thats why you make clones -> shatter them, 1-2 at once.
    thats why there is no clutter.
    what condi does is perma 3 clones, when you are about to get extras, shatter -> immidietly get more, thats why you see 3 running at you, 4th one becouse of ambush and 2 staff phantasms becoming clones.
    tldr cmirage keeps clones and shatters only when he is about to get new ones anyways so there is clutter, power mes doesnt do it so there is no clutter.

    Any particular reason only 1-2 at once?
    My wep choices are def staying,lol. It normally does me well (My k/d ratio is on my side by far), so I am looking to adapt in other ways (either playstyle, utilities...etc).

    Any reason why, like condi, it isnt good for a DPS to have 3, shatter while making more?

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  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2019

    Its not u cannot do similar things with GS or s/s, etc its that if you look at the skills on each weapon, staff 2 and 3 (when combined) are designed to generate 3 clones (2 as phantasms. 1st) also these days most mirage will run dueling to get clones on dodge. Basically, what you want to do is time your shatters, along with your phantasm generating skills and clone generating skills like phase retreat along with dodge in such a way that as you have 3 clones up you can either ambush or shatter, and you want to time the shatter so that your phantasms and other skills will pop out 3 more clones soon as the shatter ones are being used up. This can make is seem like one has more clones that one actually has. Its also generally what I would say if effective, skilled play. Its easily countered by things like cleave damage or just focus the actual Mesmer and ignore the clone spam. You can time the skills on GS to do the same thing, but the phantasm skill makes 1 at a time not 2 and it doesn't so much fit into the typical PvP GS Mesmer play style to stand around doing ambush w 3 clones. Its used for fast 1 shot builds. Sword has a good ambush too when it lands.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Its not u cannot do similar things with GS or s/s, etc its that if you look at the skills on each weapon, staff 2 and 3 (when combined) are designed to generate 3 clones (2 as phantasms. 1st) also these days most mirage will run dueling to get clones on dodge. Basically, what you want to do is time your shatters, along with your phantasm generating skills and clone generating skills like phase retreat along with dodge in such a way that as you have 3 clones up you can either ambush or shatter, and you want to time the shatter so that your phantasms and other skills will pop out 3 more clones soon as the shatter ones are being used up. This can make is seem like one has more clones that one actually has. Its also generally what I would say if effective, skilled play. Its easily countered by things like cleave damage or just focus the actual Mesmer and ignore the clone spam. You can time the skills on GS to do the same thing, but the phantasm skill makes 1 at a time not 2 and it doesn't so much fit into the typical PvP GS Mesmer play style to stand around doing ambush w 3 clones. Its used for fast 1 shot builds. Sword has a good ambush too when it lands.

    Interesting explanation that is greatly appreciated. Im more of a sustained burst build than a 1 shot, however the point still stands. Thanks for that.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I dont think its worth all that much to hold onto clones as power mes (( depends on situation and oponent ofc )),
    Look at it this way, condi clones provide constant dps, lowish but still.
    Power clones provide almost no dps ( gs clone actually can dish out some at about 100 dmg/s so its something due to bleed trait )
    What power clones have is a threat of big shatter, nothing more. Holding onto condi, means constant DPS and potential big defensive f3/f4.
    Holding onto power clones means huge f3/f4, while having no DPS. Mirage doesnt have good sustained damage against many meta specs without shatters, and keeping clones just risks them being wiped AND risks providing bonuses to oponents ( like necro getting lifeforce from them) or ( holo getting stability ) or ( warrior getting adrenaline and heals from them ). While shattering provides semireliable damage.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2019

    Axe is actually a condi weapon (the power coefficient is rather low and due to bleeding it's more or less condi) and you probably want to run sword+focus if you're power or scepter mainhand if condi.

    Scepter spits out clones like nobody's business since every third attack on auto makes a clone if you don't have a clone up.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Axe is actually a condi weapon (the power coefficient is rather low and due to bleeding it's more or less condi) and you probably want to run sword+focus if you're power or scepter mainhand if condi.

    Scepter spits out clones like nobody's business since every third attack on auto makes a clone if you don't have a clone up.

    im fairly sure he knows that axe leans on condi damage more then on power, while that is true it still has some respectable power damage, and since axe is a fun weapon thats propably the reason he uses it.
    Axe 3 for example deals slightly more damage then 2 bounces of mirror blade.
    Axe 2 and ambush deals about the same damage, its not going to nuke people out of the face of the planet, but 2-3k dmg with every ability is respectable.
    Problem of the power axe is that clone ambush is useless, deals 0 dmg. Sword has a daze + moves clones closer for shatter, Gs deals some damage and applies weakness.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Axe is actually a condi weapon (the power coefficient is rather low and due to bleeding it's more or less condi) and you probably want to run sword+focus if you're power or scepter mainhand if condi.

    Scepter spits out clones like nobody's business since every third attack on auto makes a clone if you don't have a clone up.

    im fairly sure he knows that axe leans on condi damage more then on power, while that is true it still has some respectable power damage, and since axe is a fun weapon thats propably the reason he uses it.
    Axe 3 for example deals slightly more damage then 2 bounces of mirror blade.
    Axe 2 and ambush deals about the same damage, its not going to nuke people out of the face of the planet, but 2-3k dmg with every ability is respectable.
    Problem of the power axe is that clone ambush is useless, deals 0 dmg. Sword has a daze + moves clones closer for shatter, Gs deals some damage and applies weakness.

    I used to run condi Mirage pre initial confusion nerf and def aware its used in condi builds primarily. I am the type that likes to thin koutside the meta/minmax box and find something that works for the users playstyle...which I dont MH sword and axe plays nice for how I use it. Yeah if I cared about sword I may have more overall damage, however I love the axe on Mirage too much :)

    As for Axe clone ambush, my rotation I use typically works fine and def throws a lot off guard as I am dps, yes I bring out a condi weapon. The damage/burst ive had with Axe 3 with a couple clones is insane, however takes a bit of set up (thus a bit of skill)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Axe is actually a condi weapon (the power coefficient is rather low and due to bleeding it's more or less condi) and you probably want to run sword+focus if you're power or scepter mainhand if condi.

    Scepter spits out clones like nobody's business since every third attack on auto makes a clone if you don't have a clone up.

    im fairly sure he knows that axe leans on condi damage more then on power, while that is true it still has some respectable power damage, and since axe is a fun weapon thats propably the reason he uses it.
    Axe 3 for example deals slightly more damage then 2 bounces of mirror blade.
    Axe 2 and ambush deals about the same damage, its not going to nuke people out of the face of the planet, but 2-3k dmg with every ability is respectable.
    Problem of the power axe is that clone ambush is useless, deals 0 dmg. Sword has a daze + moves clones closer for shatter, Gs deals some damage and applies weakness.

    I used to run condi Mirage pre initial confusion nerf and def aware its used in condi builds primarily. I am the type that likes to thin koutside the meta/minmax box and find something that works for the users playstyle...which I dont MH sword and axe plays nice for how I use it. Yeah if I cared about sword I may have more overall damage, however I love the axe on Mirage too much :)

    As for Axe clone ambush, my rotation I use typically works fine and def throws a lot off guard as I am dps, yes I bring out a condi weapon. The damage/burst ive had with Axe 3 with a couple clones is insane, however takes a bit of set up (thus a bit of skill)

    I understand, I would be there with you on the power axe train, but every couple of games axe 3 bugs kitten me off so kitten hard I just give up.
    Having salty kids call you condi monkey when you play power axe is pure extasy.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Axe is actually a condi weapon (the power coefficient is rather low and due to bleeding it's more or less condi) and you probably want to run sword+focus if you're power or scepter mainhand if condi.

    Scepter spits out clones like nobody's business since every third attack on auto makes a clone if you don't have a clone up.

    im fairly sure he knows that axe leans on condi damage more then on power, while that is true it still has some respectable power damage, and since axe is a fun weapon thats propably the reason he uses it.
    Axe 3 for example deals slightly more damage then 2 bounces of mirror blade.
    Axe 2 and ambush deals about the same damage, its not going to nuke people out of the face of the planet, but 2-3k dmg with every ability is respectable.
    Problem of the power axe is that clone ambush is useless, deals 0 dmg. Sword has a daze + moves clones closer for shatter, Gs deals some damage and applies weakness.

    I used to run condi Mirage pre initial confusion nerf and def aware its used in condi builds primarily. I am the type that likes to thin koutside the meta/minmax box and find something that works for the users playstyle...which I dont MH sword and axe plays nice for how I use it. Yeah if I cared about sword I may have more overall damage, however I love the axe on Mirage too much :)

    As for Axe clone ambush, my rotation I use typically works fine and def throws a lot off guard as I am dps, yes I bring out a condi weapon. The damage/burst ive had with Axe 3 with a couple clones is insane, however takes a bit of set up (thus a bit of skill)

    I understand, I would be there with you on the power axe train, but every couple of games axe 3 bugs kitten me off so kitten hard I just give up.
    Having salty kids call you condi monkey when you play power axe is pure extasy.

    Had a holo a while back tell me I cheated as I told him I was a power build (Im Marauder/Valk) and that my condis did a lot of damage. Saw in combat log that confusion ticked 3 times for 200 dmg.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Gryxis.6950Gryxis.6950 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Hello all,

    So I had always question a certain....validity of summoning clones/phantasms due to the sheer number I see other Mirages summon/shatter. Mostly with condi builds, I notice there are a lot of clones being shattered at one time (one fight I counted 5 coming at me), however no idea how they get so many out in a super short period of time. I main mesmer in WvW (DPS) and this is one aspect I seem to lack in...having so many out/shattering at one time.

    Any tips on how to achieve max cloneage (I run GS/Axe+Torch)

    TIA

    If you run dueling and domination, deceptive evasion and imagined burden gives you all the clones you need