Frogs and rodents and bears oh my. Why do so many non-human animals display sapience? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Frogs and rodents and bears oh my. Why do so many non-human animals display sapience?

Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭

We know there is a mind domain, and that high magic concentrations can grant sentience. But we also know evolution exists to some degree with taxonomic groups like canines and the lesser dragons. So what caused something like a skritt to diverge from other rodents. Was it unique to them, some mass event, or was our highly improbable creation something simply less random on Tyria.

Comments

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Simply because they can, and it’s unique. Most movies and tv shows are heavily tilted towards humans and near human races because that’s a lot easier to make than having half the cast in weird costumes or intensive CGI. In game, though, there’s no difference between animating an existing hylek model and an existing human model. It doesn’t cost millions more. So, they have the freedom to use their more creative races freely

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    Simply because they can, and it’s unique. Most movies and tv shows are heavily tilted towards humans and near human races because that’s a lot easier to make than having half the cast in weird costumes or intensive CGI. In game, though, there’s no difference between animating an existing hylek model and an existing human model. It doesn’t cost millions more. So, they have the freedom to use their more creative races freely

    This statement is right but the comparison is wrong. The Hylek animations will have used Charr skeletons, not humans, but otherwise this statement is true, Charr, Hylek and even Skritt all have the same basic skeletons for animations.

    Lore wise, it's probably just magic and there's no real major event that would have contributed to evolution. Mostly saying this because if Aurene is anything to go by, absorbing magic helps in the evolutionary cycle. Since the dragon seeps out magic back into the world after consuming it, I can only guess that over the years of that magic seeping out (so about 10 000 years worth of magic seeping out since the last Elder Dragon Rise) races began to evolve as they slowly absorbed the magical energy that were seeping from the Elder Dragons. Humans don't count on this because they aren't native to Tyria originally.

  • deatine.2498deatine.2498 Member ✭✭✭

    I think no particular reason was given, but I can think of one other besides magic: the extreme natural selection. Every ten thousand years, the elder dragons wake up and pretty much eradicate any species except for the most adaptable, which in this case probably means the most intelligent. You cannot survive the elder dragons with strength or speed, but you might able to outsmart them well enough so some of your group survive. Those who were smart enough to survive the elder dragons were the basis for the evolution of the modern races.
    You also have to keep in mind that humans are aliens to Tyria while the other species you mention are native. Lore-wise, Skritt, Charr and Hylek are not surprisingly sapient like humans, humans are surprisingly sapient like the races of Tyria.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On top of what @deatine.2498 said, there's also the possibility that other groups came from the Mists like the Six brought humanity - we do not know the true nature of other "gods" like Koda, Zintl, even Mellaggan, etc. Nor do we know of any races besides the five, charr, kodan, karka, and possibly tengu and krait, to have lived through the previous dragonrise with minimal culture.

    Then there's the possibility that the Six Gods intentionally warped and forced-evolved some species. This is something I could see Abaddon or Melandru doing, in order to help increase chances against the Elder Dragons in the future (more smart races of different cultures = more ideas to bring to the table if they can overcome any hostilities).

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  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭

    Adding up to the above two statements, the possibility of godly interference will have also stemmed from Balthazar as well since he was the one who saw fit to conquer all races across Tyria and as per history of Tyria, the natives of Tyria proved to be more resilient than expected. This means they most likely had to have adapted and evolved to counteract not just against Elder Dragons at that point but also some of the Six Gods (me mostly seeing Balthazar, Dhuum and Abaddon as being the main threats amongst the Gods).

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think pre-fall, Abaddon would be more likely to have helped the other races evolve. He is described as having been a kind and wise god before his fall, and favored the spread of magic.

    In hindsight with new lore, it's possible Abaddon wanted to spread magic to as many races as possible due to the gods' knowledge of the Elder Dragons and because during the last dragonrise, magic largely belonged to "the elite" races which caused many to die out (this was mentioned somewhere in Bitterfrost Frontier by the kodan). If so, this would definitely act counter to Balthazar's wants of human conquest.

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  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2019

    @deatine.2498 said:
    I think no particular reason was given, but I can think of one other besides magic: the extreme natural selection. Every ten thousand years, the elder dragons wake up and pretty much eradicate any species except for the most adaptable, which in this case probably means the most intelligent. You cannot survive the elder dragons with strength or speed, but you might able to outsmart them well enough so some of your group survive. Those who were smart enough to survive the elder dragons were the basis for the evolution of the modern races.
    You also have to keep in mind that humans are aliens to Tyria while the other species you mention are native. Lore-wise, Skritt, Charr and Hylek are not surprisingly sapient like humans, humans are surprisingly sapient like the races of Tyria.

    This does seem plausible, for if it had been magic accumulation Glint would have had to hide them and that doesn't seem to have been the case. AFAIK we only have heard of her protecting those with established magical civilizations.

  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I think pre-fall, Abaddon would be more likely to have helped the other races evolve. He is described as having been a kind and wise god before his fall, and favored the spread of magic.

    In hindsight with new lore, it's possible Abaddon wanted to spread magic to as many races as possible due to the gods' knowledge of the Elder Dragons and because during the last dragonrise, magic largely belonged to "the elite" races which caused many to die out (this was mentioned somewhere in Bitterfrost Frontier by the kodan). If so, this would definitely act counter to Balthazar's wants of human conquest.

    I see what ya mean. Abaddon didn't exactly become evil, he gave a gift to a race with a hope that it would prosper and even spread to the other native races but due to human folly, it simply became a tool of conquest and destruction.

    Ever since GW2's more in depth history of the gods, I begin to see Abaddon in a more positive light. He didn't turn evil for his own self gain like Balthazar, he turned evil because he gave a gift that could have helped civilizations thrive and probably evolve further than what we see now but was instead used for the wrong reasons and he felt betrayed when the other gods took that gift away.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    Ever since GW2's more in depth history of the gods, I begin to see Abaddon in a more positive light. He didn't turn evil for his own self gain like Balthazar, he turned evil because he gave a gift that could have helped civilizations thrive and probably evolve further than what we see now but was instead used for the wrong reasons and he felt betrayed when the other gods took that gift away.

    Well, that's fairly up in the air. Our lore on Abaddon suggests that the whole deal with magic being revoked was the straw that broke the camel's back, rather than the sole turning point. We don't know what other events occurred that slowly led to Abaddon turning on the other gods and the Forgotten after the Forgotten waged war on the Margonites.

    What we know is that Abaddon started as a good and wise god, over time he slowly became more and more "evil" (specifically it's left unclear), gave the gift of magic, then after the gift of magic was revoked, the Margonites had defaced the Temple of the Six Gods except Abaddon's statue, leading the Forgotten to wage war against them, Abaddon stepped in when Jadoth prayed to him (with contemplation / hesitation before stepping in), which led the other gods to step into the war as well and things just escalated from there.

    On top of that some sources say that the other five gods were jealous of the attention Abaddon had gotten when he gifted magic - but that piece is also written in favor of pre-fall Abaddon, as it lacks to mention that while civilizations that prospered because of magic, civilizations also waged war because of magic. That's rather the issue with using unreliable narrators so often though.

    We unfortunately don't know enough about his pre-Gift of Magic life to really say how he truly was. Our best depictions is:

    Prior to his fall, Abaddon was the chief deity of water and wisdom. It is said that while his heart was still just and fair, he was a handsome, calm figure with imposing blue eyes - deep, like the colors of the sea. His generosity was only matched by his namesake, the ocean, which was both his dominion and said to be the physical manifestation of his blue wings. Princely amongst the gods, he was recognized as being the wisest amidst the Six, and his insight was not only welcome, but was also the most highly valued when the gods held council.

    And the sole teaching of his that we get from GW2: Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy.

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