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Core guard's undocumented STRONG nerf: Smiter's Boon


aelska.4609

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@otto.5684 said:

@aceofbass.2163 said:@"crazyhusky.2985"

DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

SB does not use dagger.Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

It kinda is actually.

Soulbeast does use dagger, It's been meta for both condi and power builds build in raids for ages.https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/soulbeast/condition/https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/soulbeast/power/

Herlad shield is used on kiting buildshttps://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/hand%20kite/

For scrapper, the healing scrapper can use it's hammer over shield in some instances.Due to knocking mobs in some instances can be bad, So using thunderclap for CC instead. it also has a slightly lower CD than the shield skills, It is use by a few people that run healing scrappers from what i've seen personally.

DH's Longbow is rather useless in raid wise, poor DPS, and to even give some CC on it, you'd need to take the "heavy light" trait to gain knockback . However you need the "big game hunter" trait for damage, so either way you get screwed over with the longbow. scepter and GS have always been the go to weapons for DH in raids.

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@Lazze.9870 said:.> @kasoki.5180 said:

I mean, this kind of mechanics where an effect is applied even before skill is fully cast should have never been in the game. Effects that are triggered by a skill should apply only when skills is actually cast, not upon click.

But the issue is that again its only the guardian that gets these "common sense" changes which makes the class relatively fall behind (RI nerf another example)

One of the most comparable traits, ranger's Soften the Fall, already function exactly like this, and has been like that since they added it to trigger on heal aswell as fall damage. Live Fast, the one that gives Fury and Quickness on Beast skills is triggered after the skill, not before (which would have been a lot more useful).

Sounds pretty ignorant to claim that guardian is the only professions with these "common sense changes".

Sounds pretty ignorant to quote me on something I have NOT said, as I have not said that other professions don't have these mechanics. I have said that guard is the one whose are being changed.As far as I know, skills you have mentioned have always applied traited effects as intended. They weren't just randomly changed one day

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:I agree very much with this. Of the top of my head, mesmer is only profession that has all its weapons used at least in some way and game mode.

MesmerThiefNecroEngineer

These 4 professions see both elite profession weapons used in meta builds.

Can't remember when was the last time i saw pistol thief, dagger necro or shield engi (scratch this one). In any game mode. I was talking about weapons available to a profession as a whole, not just weapons gained via elite-specs

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@kasoki.5180 said:

I mean, this kind of mechanics where an effect is applied even before skill is fully cast should have never been in the game. Effects that are triggered by a skill should apply only when skills is actually cast, not upon click.

But the issue is that again its only the guardian that gets these "common sense" changes which makes the class relatively fall behind (RI nerf another example)

One of the most comparable traits, ranger's Soften the Fall, already function exactly like this, and has been like that since they added it to trigger on heal aswell as fall damage. Live Fast, the one that gives Fury and Quickness on Beast skills is triggered after the skill, not before (which would have been a lot more useful).

Sounds pretty ignorant to claim that guardian is the only professions with these "common sense changes".

Sounds pretty ignorant to quote me on something I have NOT said, as I have not said that other professions don't have these mechanics. I have said that guard is the one whose are being changed.As far as I know, skills you have mentioned have always applied traited effects as intended. They weren't just randomly changed one day

I never claimed those traits were ever changed. They are just comparable traits.

I said it's ignorant to think guardian is the only profession where such changes, like the one done to Smiter's Boon, happens. It's not. Three years into the game Anet suddenly normalized the leap on ranger greatsword, calling it a bug fix when people questioned it because it was thought by players to be an intended component of the weapon. The character even leaps twice in its animation. The fact that Scrapper got a double leap finisher built into its hammer shortlfy after makes that change even worse than this Smiter's Boon change, as it removes the rule that leaps are locked in terms of functionality.

Even if guardian truly was the only class to get such changes, which it's not, it's a moot point to bring up unless you can list abnormal funtionalities in other comparable traits or skills.

If there is a point to be made, it is that Anet need to get their shit together and fix traits and skills like this sooner rather than later, and mention it in patch notes instead of these stealth fixes, especially when the change they make have implications like this one (removing poison after a heal instead of before a heal obviously being worse).

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@otto.5684 said:

DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

SB does not use dagger.Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

Condi soulbeast uses dagger. Deimos kiting herald uses shield. Spellbreaker and scrapper doesn't use theirs though.

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

SB does not use dagger.Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

Condi soulbeast uses dagger. Deimos kiting herald uses shield. Spellbreaker and scrapper doesn't use theirs though.

Only because it's a marginaly better condi weapon than the axe. The dagger has no other use, no useful utility. Nothing. It's underwhelming enough to be the mainhand dagger one would think core ranger should've always had.

Spellbreaker and scrapper use their weapons in competetive enviroments.

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@Lazze.9870 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

SB does not use dagger.Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

Condi soulbeast uses dagger. Deimos kiting herald uses shield. Spellbreaker and scrapper doesn't use theirs though.

Only because it's a marginaly better condi weapon than the axe. The dagger has no other use, no useful utility. Nothing. It's underwhelming enough to be the mainhand dagger one would think core ranger should've always had.

Spellbreaker and scrapper use their weapons in competetive enviroments.

If you read the OP I quoted, it was all about raids. In raids, dps is basically all that matters. Being a marginally better dps weapon on a class that has good dps so I don't understand why you undermine it's use.

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@aceofbass.2163 said:@"crazyhusky.2985"

DH's longbow is ONLY elite spec weapon that can't be used for raiding at all, other elite weapons that aren't DPS are used for kiting, tanking or support still making them useful.

Scrapper's hammer sends it's regards.

Seriously though, agree on the lb thing

SB does not use dagger.Soul beast does not use dagger MH. Anywhere.Herald does not use shield. Anywhere.Plus DH and scrapper LB and hammer.

It is a consistent problem, not DH exclusive.

Condi soulbeast uses dagger. Deimos kiting herald uses shield. Spellbreaker and scrapper doesn't use theirs though.

Only because it's a marginaly better condi weapon than the axe. The dagger has no other use, no useful utility. Nothing. It's underwhelming enough to be the mainhand dagger one would think core ranger should've always had.

Spellbreaker and scrapper use their weapons in competetive enviroments.

If you read the OP I quoted, it was all about raids. In raids, dps is basically all that matters. Being a marginally better dps weapon on a class that has good dps so I don't understand why you undermine it's use.

The overall conversation was more about the usefulness of a weapon across all game modes. And that's what important. It doesn't matter if spellbreaker has no use for its dagger pve when its a staple in its pvp build. DH bow however has little to no use.

Which is why I "undermine" the dagger. The only gamemode it has ever had any use in is pve. And the only reason it beats the axe to begin with, which isn't even a dedicated condi weapon, is because they buffed the dagger and kept the split between axe skills in pve and pvp. Removing the split would bounce axe right back up. And it's the same with power builds. The only reason dagger competes with the sword, is because the sword isn't that good of a dps weapon to begin with.

A few more tweaks to the dagger would sement it as a pve condi weapon. Or a power weapon if they wanted to rework it into that, which I personaly would have prefered. And yes, I do realize that marginally better dps is all that matters in pve, but when marginally better in one game mode is all it has, I'd say its pretty underwhelming. The purpose of the weapon is pure dps, yet it just barely competes with two weapons that have always been defined as an evade weapon and a hybrid weapon.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:I agree very much with this. Of the top of my head, mesmer is only profession that has all its weapons used at least in some way and game mode.

MesmerThiefNecroEngineer

These 4 professions see both elite profession weapons used in meta builds.

GuardiansWarriorElementalistRanger

These 4 professions see a single elite profession weapons used in meta builds.

Revenant wins the prize for having neither profession weapons being suitable for a meta build.

PvE condi DPS renegades use shortbow.

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This is a pretty terrible nerf.

So not only has the Smiter's Boon trait been heavily devalued as a condi-cleanse, but it now is a far weaker offensive skill due to the enormous delay of the trait proccing after a heal skill. For example, if you use LoW, the delay between the end of LoW and Smiter's Boon proccing is significantly longer now than it was before. This is a bad change, and it should reverted ASAP. Literally no one asked for or wanted this nerf.

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@aelska.4609 said:

@"otto.5684" said:Not a cool change, but I wont go as far as "destroys its advantages." Shelter surely suffers the most here. But considering that the 2 heals that are most used in sPvP are LoW and the mantra, this change would not even be noticeable.

LoW is a terrible heal that mainly low-tier people use. The healing might seem fine, but it forces you to go overly aggressive while it is active; which often results in getting trapped in stupid cc chains.A well used Shelter does not especially heal you, but avoids you getting killed by anticipating deadly actions. Unfortunately, with this trait change, it makes you so vulnerable to conditions that it becomes unplayable. So RIP higher tier with core, when it was still accessible before.Mantra is great but it is on the firebrand, unfortunately :(

Lol 1 LoW in pvp should be effective if you heal yourself the 2nd time...Shame on the opponent

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