Not releasing a new expansion for GW2 was a terrible mistake because WoW:BFA turned out to be bad

ReaverKane.7598 · June 30, 2019

@zealex.9410 said:
@ReaverKane.7598 said:
@Klakax.2596 said:I mean just look at ESO or FFXIV, they both have record players on Steam this year. All because new WoW expansion BFA is terrible and a lot of people started looking for a new MMORPG.
If GW2 did the same and released a new expansion this year, I bet a lot of new and old players would be playing this game.
It's a shame because I think GW2 deserves way more attention since it's one of the best MMORPGs on the market.

And yet those record numbers are still shy of what Warframe has without ANY expansions... We don't know about GW2 because there's no such metrics, but i wouldn't worry about it...This is all pure speculation, yes, those games grew, but did they grow enough to catch up to GW2? Hard to say, because again, no numbers. From my experience, Living World has done more to garner good will towards the game than any expansions... And with Season 4 being somewhat lacklustre compared to season 2 and 3 (even the last 2 episodes being somewhat above average doesn't make up for the mid episodes being so meh) it was a better move to go forward through into Season 5 than focus on an expansion.That, and Arena Net were focusing way too many resources on their side project (the one that got shutdown and caused the lay-offs) so they probably didn't have the manpower to launch an expansion.But all said and done, yes, there was a lot of mismanagement of the GW2 product and IP, so much so that it had a repercussion to the point of causing a lot of people to lose their livelihood. But it does seem that those repercussions did shake Arena Net of their cushy lethargy, and they seem to be getting more proactive. Time will tell. Too bad it came too late to allow their colleagues to keep their jobs... It's not like a significant bunch of the community hadn't been vocal about that state of things, me included.

Iirc both ff14 and eso has scored bigger player gains and acounts created over gw2 which has largely remained stagnant over tge last 2 or so years. Also i wouldnt necessarily compaire warframe to eso and ff14 mostly because warframe has unique incentives for ppl to play through the steam launcher rater than their own launcher.

Eso's steam launcher was also a mess for a long time.

How can you say it remained stagnant? Arena Net hasn't given any numbers.Warframe also plays on Consoles as well... Also you're the one that brought up Steam. I just happened to remember a game that doesn't offer expansions and that is still topping the charts. Also there's BDO that works more similarly to GW2's Living world, and has also seen a huge increase in numbers due to one of their recent releases (pretty sure it has more concurrent users on steam that FF).

Yumenei.7943 · June 30, 2019

@Ben K.6238 said:Yeah, it sounds like EQ and UO.

Yes, those were the games that WoW tried to mimic in some way, but also made the game more available to casual audience so no item/experience loss upon death was added and many things were simplified. In fact nothing about WoW was original at the time. It secured its place as a king of MMORPGs, because it had a popular setting and it was first to made the game more accessible to wider audience without sacrificing player interactions.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@Omernon.9762 said:
@Ben K.6238 said:
@Omernon.9762 said:No? The main reason WoW players started looking for a new game was because BFA was so bad. The same applies to YouTubers and Twitch streamers. I have 10k hours clocked in WoW and I’m considered casual by WoW’s standards. In fact most of WoW’s population is made of very loyal and engaged players and the only reason for them to even consider looking for another game is that their beloved game had become a pile of kitten. So if BFA was good, then noone would leave regardless of how good ESO or FF is. You simply can’t just leave behind a game that had become almost a part of your life. So please don’t bring up this stupid argument, because most World of Warcraft players wouldn’t even know about these games in the first place, if Blizzard didn’t kitten up its own game. This is how terrible BFA is!
But don’t worry. Classic is back and soon FF and ESO will become a barren land once again.

For all of two weeks, until people start to realise they've already played it before and it wasn't that good the first time.

Some of them for sure, but don’t forget that there are private servers with total population bigger than some larger MMOs and Vanilla servers were the most popular ones. Also YouTubers and Streamers seem to absolutely love Classic beta. Even Nixxiom who moved to ESO from BFA and was at first very skeptical about Classic is now prizing the game in all of his recent videos and will be playing the kitten out of it when it releases. Both Guild Wars and World of Warcraft were my most played MMOs and I’ve been with both series from the very beginning, but one thing that WoW Classic has over other new MMORPGs is the way it brings players together. It’s entirely player-driven, promotes active cooperation (Guild Wars is mostly passive in this regard) without forcing it down the player’s throat and it’s a kind of game where the actual gameplay is a reward - you're not playing it for daily rewards and achievements points, hoping they will one day somewhat matter to you. This is what MMORPG truely is about - massive, fantasy world with a huge and active community that is both working together and competing against; not a safe space with barriers and dozens of difficulty levels that further segregate community into smaller portions and turn the game into largely single player experience with a scarce and mostly heavily scripted group content. Sounds familiar, right?

We'll see about that. I'm skeptical that when the gear treadmill stops turning, these players are going to stick around "for the gameplay". Especially when their memories of the quality of that gameplay are almost certainly magnified by nostalgia.

It will take a year before this happens, because they will release content (battlegrounds, raids etc.) with 2-3 months pauses. After this I’m not sure what will happen, but if I were to bet my money, I would say they will introduce something similar to OSRS where players are voting for further development of the game. It would make new raid releases possible, which is a better idea than what WoW did with releases of expansions that kill every previous end-game content with quests that give better gear than former raids.

Mushuchalaka.9437 · June 30, 2019

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:I am taking a break from GW2 specifically because the content release schedule is not to my liking. I need expansions to keep things fresh for me. Adding a new story instance and such every few months is nice, but it doesn't keep me here in the long term.
That isn't just talk, either. I'm currently playing WoW for the first time in years, after trying FFXIV, ESO, and BnS in an attempt to find what I'm looking for. While none of these games are GW2 to me, at least a few of them release expansions that change things up.
GW2 is probably the best out of all the MMOs I've tried. Unfortunately, they also make a lot of weird decisions that ruin it such as...
Boring non-trinity instanced PvE. I'm sorry, but this is not "innovative". All you did was remove tanking roles entirely and basically make every class into a DPS/support role. These other MMOs using the tried and true trinity format are simply more fun. While "fun" is subjective, objectively it's difficult to argue that having 1 role is better than having 3 in group content.
A maddening lack of resources. WvW (I don't even need to qualify this statement). PvP. Still only ONE game mode?? No expansion on the horizon? You made a great game. How about supporting it?
It's such a kitten shame. GW2 has the best open world gameplay. It has a cool story and lore with regular updates. Its combat system runs circles around games like WoW and FFXIV. But the main features that would attract and keep long-term MMO players are all missing! Dungeons/Raids? One-dimensional, boring, poor release schedule. PvP/WvW? Practically unsupported. Expansion...? I feel like ANet is really dropping the ball on one of the best MMOs on the market.

Anet really should release an expansion at least every 2 years. It's always profitable and Anet has given quality expansion, no reason to think otherwise. So far all their expansions/living story/mounts/new ideas have not disappointed. They truly are innovative but their weak point and probably due to business decision is their rewards are not innovative (lackluster).

They've found new ways to generate sales in the gem store(quality of life items) but they need to find ways to improve gameplay rewards while at the same time, generate sales in the gemstore. Perhaps something in the gemstore that enchances a nice armor/weapon/unique item/younameit . This would be similar concept as mount skins, where we're basically enhancing something nice and not lackluster from in game.

I'm looking forward to getting a better skin for Skycale, as the current one is too princess-y for my taste. There's some work/prestige in the skyscale and it's a great mount IMO. But I would love to enchance some of my legendary items. I.E. I don't like the haft of Astralaria. I'll be happy to go on a quest(make it as hard as you want) to obtain a chance to change the haft, or maybe be able to change the color or aura.

LucianDK.8615 · June 30, 2019

Bfa being bad is extreme hyperbole, the new zones are pretty good have revitalized the expansion.

zealex.9410 · June 30, 2019

@ReaverKane.7598 said:
@zealex.9410 said:
@ReaverKane.7598 said:
@Klakax.2596 said:I mean just look at ESO or FFXIV, they both have record players on Steam this year. All because new WoW expansion BFA is terrible and a lot of people started looking for a new MMORPG.
If GW2 did the same and released a new expansion this year, I bet a lot of new and old players would be playing this game.
It's a shame because I think GW2 deserves way more attention since it's one of the best MMORPGs on the market.

And yet those record numbers are still shy of what Warframe has without ANY expansions... We don't know about GW2 because there's no such metrics, but i wouldn't worry about it...This is all pure speculation, yes, those games grew, but did they grow enough to catch up to GW2? Hard to say, because again, no numbers. From my experience, Living World has done more to garner good will towards the game than any expansions... And with Season 4 being somewhat lacklustre compared to season 2 and 3 (even the last 2 episodes being somewhat above average doesn't make up for the mid episodes being so meh) it was a better move to go forward through into Season 5 than focus on an expansion.That, and Arena Net were focusing way too many resources on their side project (the one that got shutdown and caused the lay-offs) so they probably didn't have the manpower to launch an expansion.But all said and done, yes, there was a lot of mismanagement of the GW2 product and IP, so much so that it had a repercussion to the point of causing a lot of people to lose their livelihood. But it does seem that those repercussions did shake Arena Net of their cushy lethargy, and they seem to be getting more proactive. Time will tell. Too bad it came too late to allow their colleagues to keep their jobs... It's not like a significant bunch of the community hadn't been vocal about that state of things, me included.

Iirc both ff14 and eso has scored bigger player gains and acounts created over gw2 which has largely remained stagnant over tge last 2 or so years. Also i wouldnt necessarily compaire warframe to eso and ff14 mostly because warframe has unique incentives for ppl to play through the steam launcher rater than their own launcher.

Eso's steam launcher was also a mess for a long time.

How can you say it remained stagnant? Arena Net hasn't given any numbers.Warframe also plays on Consoles as well... Also you're the one that brought up Steam. I just happened to remember a game that doesn't offer expansions and that is still topping the charts. Also there's BDO that works more similarly to GW2's Living world, and has also seen a huge increase in numbers due to one of their recent releases (pretty sure it has more concurrent users on steam that FF).

Anet gave us stats twice, once with pof and another time with all the promotional movement a year, year and a half later, the stats are similar.

Both ff14 and eso play on consoles as well. If you care to explain to me how bdo works like gw2's lw, is it because of the free zone updates? The concept of zone story and zone updates isnt exclusive to gw2, all 3 mmos mentioned here do it but all charge it in diff ways, well diff ways, eso ff14 and wow might as well be sub based mmos.

Avg bdo comes out ahead with peak being similar, bdo also had a steam mega sale on its release iirc selling itself for the price of a random mount skin in gw2. I expect that to chabge with the expansion of ff14 being days old at this point tho.

In player counts rn tho both ff14 and eso as quite abit ahead.

luzonophir.7134 · June 30, 2019

hey.

guild wars 1 servers are still up..

and you hear games and game companies dying since 2005.

and yeah, guild wars 1 servers are still up..

Yumenei.7943 · June 30, 2019

@LucianDK.8615 said:Bfa being bad is extreme hyperbole, the new zones are pretty good have revitalized the expansion.

That doesn’t change the fact that the foundation is terrible. Redoing same raids multiple times on 4 different difficulties for better gear (What is this? Diablo 3?) instead of having new raids being increasingly harder. CRZ terribly implemented. Useless Warfronts where you literally can’t lose. Dailies and time-gated content everywhere. Not to mention how Azerite gear works and best raid gear being obtainable from mindless dungeons if you are lucky enough.

I mean it’s not terrible, just bad. New patch did implemented few good things, but it did nothing to bring community back together. You can play WoW without speaking to anyone and with enough time, luck and some effort become equally geared as most top players. This is the problem - not the abundance of gear, but the focus on single player experience new MMORPGs seem to cater to. It’s really letting me down; the fact that more and more MMORPGs focus on content that every singleplayer RPG does waaaay better, instead of creating a virtual world full of players that you want to interact with. You know... things that historically were the strong points of MMORPGs.

ReaverKane.7598 · June 30, 2019

@zealex.9410 said:
@ReaverKane.7598 said:
@zealex.9410 said:
@ReaverKane.7598 said:
@"Klakax.2596" said:I mean just look at ESO or FFXIV, they both have record players on Steam this year. All because new WoW expansion BFA is terrible and a lot of people started looking for a new MMORPG.
If GW2 did the same and released a new expansion this year, I bet a lot of new and old players would be playing this game.
It's a shame because I think GW2 deserves way more attention since it's one of the best MMORPGs on the market.

And yet those record numbers are still shy of what Warframe has without ANY expansions... We don't know about GW2 because there's no such metrics, but i wouldn't worry about it...This is all pure speculation, yes, those games grew, but did they grow enough to catch up to GW2? Hard to say, because again, no numbers. From my experience, Living World has done more to garner good will towards the game than any expansions... And with Season 4 being somewhat lacklustre compared to season 2 and 3 (even the last 2 episodes being somewhat above average doesn't make up for the mid episodes being so meh) it was a better move to go forward through into Season 5 than focus on an expansion.That, and Arena Net were focusing way too many resources on their side project (the one that got shutdown and caused the lay-offs) so they probably didn't have the manpower to launch an expansion.But all said and done, yes, there was a lot of mismanagement of the GW2 product and IP, so much so that it had a repercussion to the point of causing a lot of people to lose their livelihood. But it does seem that those repercussions did shake Arena Net of their cushy lethargy, and they seem to be getting more proactive. Time will tell. Too bad it came too late to allow their colleagues to keep their jobs... It's not like a significant bunch of the community hadn't been vocal about that state of things, me included.

Iirc both ff14 and eso has scored bigger player gains and acounts created over gw2 which has largely remained stagnant over tge last 2 or so years. Also i wouldnt necessarily compaire warframe to eso and ff14 mostly because warframe has unique incentives for ppl to play through the steam launcher rater than their own launcher.

Eso's steam launcher was also a mess for a long time.

How can you say it remained stagnant? Arena Net hasn't given any numbers.Warframe also plays on Consoles as well... Also you're the one that brought up Steam. I just happened to remember a game that doesn't offer expansions and that is still topping the charts. Also there's BDO that works more similarly to GW2's Living world, and has also seen a huge increase in numbers due to one of their recent releases (pretty sure it has more concurrent users on steam that FF).

Anet gave us stats twice, once with pof and another time with all the promotional movement a year, year and a half later, the stats are similar.

Both ff14 and eso play on consoles as well. If you care to explain to me how bdo works like gw2's lw, is it because of the free zone updates? The concept of zone story and zone updates isnt exclusive to gw2, all 3 mmos mentioned here do it but all charge it in diff ways, well diff ways, eso ff14 and wow might as well be sub based mmos.

Avg bdo comes out ahead with peak being similar, bdo also had a steam mega sale on its release iirc selling itself for the price of a random mount skin in gw2. I expect that to chabge with the expansion of ff14 being days old at this point tho.

In player counts rn tho both ff14 and eso as quite abit ahead.

LOLYou want to compare registered accounts with active users?Because if you go there, i doubt you'll see much of a mark on registered accounts for FFXIV after the expansion compared to before, because for a game that's 7+ years old the bulk of registered accounts will already have happened, anything post that will be a drop in the ocean. And that goes double for GW2 which has a "F2P" version. Just the influx from when it went F2P in 2015 will have created huge inflation on new accounts.

Sure all games do it similarly, but it was GW2 that started it, hence why its similar, but ESO has PAID expansions, and FF is subscription based WITH paid expansions, it's not "might as well", it is a paid subscription model.

Clearly, you don't understand the concept of how to set standards for comparison, so instead of arguing with a obtuse wall, i'll just let you prattle on by yourself.

LucianDK.8615 · June 30, 2019

@Omernon.9762 said:
@LucianDK.8615 said:Bfa being bad is extreme hyperbole, the new zones are pretty good have revitalized the expansion.

That doesn’t change the fact that the foundation is terrible. Redoing same raids multiple times on 4 different difficulties for better gear (What is this? Diablo 3?) instead of having new raids being increasingly harder. CRZ terribly implemented. Useless Warfronts where you literally can’t lose. Dailies and time-gated content everywhere. Not to mention how Azerite gear works and best raid gear being obtainable from mindless dungeons if you are lucky enough.

I mean it’s not terrible, just bad. New patch did implemented few good things, but it did nothing to bring community back together. You can play WoW without speaking to anyone and with enough time, luck and some effort become equally geared as most top players. This is the problem - not the abundance of gear, but the focus on single player experience new MMORPGs seem to cater to. It’s really letting me down; the fact that more and more MMORPGs focus on content that every singleplayer RPG does waaaay better, instead of creating a virtual world full of players that you want to interact with. You know... things that historically were the strong points of MMORPGs.

Single player is important in am mmo, that you can play on your own and ocassionally group with others. Legion had easy gear too, and it was well recieved. And heroic warfronts is in the making, where you need a premade and good organization.

zealex.9410 · June 30, 2019

@ReaverKane.7598 said:
@zealex.9410 said:
@ReaverKane.7598 said:
@zealex.9410 said:
@ReaverKane.7598 said:
@"Klakax.2596" said:I mean just look at ESO or FFXIV, they both have record players on Steam this year. All because new WoW expansion BFA is terrible and a lot of people started looking for a new MMORPG.
If GW2 did the same and released a new expansion this year, I bet a lot of new and old players would be playing this game.
It's a shame because I think GW2 deserves way more attention since it's one of the best MMORPGs on the market.