Ahrya.3097

Bumping. Had the issue with this yesterday trying to help a friend do the achievement... I've always recommended this achievement to people who want a good jumping challenge as I believe it to contain probably the hardest dev implemented jumping in the game if done as originally intended without the gliders or mounts. As it is, players are literally unable to complete it without both of these things or some very niche advanced jumping tech aiding them in map breaking to follow the only known non barrier break route into the chamber. Hoping the cave in can be cleared so I can recommend this achievement again in its entirety to prospective jumpers. original method for badge 4

! You need 12 for the achievement, i think, but the orbs are not unique, and do not disappear unless used - meaning, you can get the easy ones, wait a day for all orbs to reset, get them again, and so on until you get 12 or more, and only then open the chests for achieve.Personally I would consider doing that a form of cheating the achievement, like taking a shortcut, because it prevents you from having to do the whole puzzle as intended, so I didn't mention it. Otherwise, you can again chuck scavanger's chasm in very easy and just come back each day grabbing the easiest orbs then complete it once you have enough. I think any difficulty tier list should assume the JP is being done as it was oringinally intended to be done.

Ha Ha, fairly close agreement between Dulfy's assessment and my own. Should point out though that Troll's End is not the same as Troll's Revenge. Troll's End was a JP that mainly took place underneath LA before LA was reconstructed during which Toll's End was removed and Troll's Revenge added.

There is no option to disable or turn off the glider. Personally posted and asked for such an option perviously and am aware it has been asked for by others as well, fingers crossed I guess :s

I'm assuming you'll be tackling these as they were intended to be done which means no shortcuts, no position rewind, no glider, no mount, just jumping. Otherwise you may aswell put them all in the very easy category and just use youtube to find mount/glider skips. As has been pointed out, peoples varying skill level will give them a different impression of difficulty so i've just tried to compare the JPs to each other. I would only really consider troll's revenge to be somewhat difficult of the ones you've listed, maybe try the "go for the gold" achievement in silverwastes without the mount and glider if that's still too easy for you (noticed you've already done not so secret). The worst JP ever made: Very Easy: Easy: Medium: Hard: Very Hard:

Could maybe try vorpX, I've used it in the past for Border Lands 2, but it's only to get the game working visually in VR. Also it will probably require a fair bit of tweaking so you don't spill your guts within about 5 minutes of immersion. I never tried it for gw2 and there are probably other options out there by now so maybe look around?

Regarding adequacy of current rewards and difficulty ~~ ~~~~ ~~Regarding promoting improvement of player skill? this is more of an @Mungo Zen.9364 ~~ ~~~~ ~~Regarding Self Interest: So the amount of tip money porters get is miniscule in comparison to other activities in game. Personally I don't ask for tips, I say thankyou when I get them, and I return the excess of 1g back to the player on the rare occasion someone gives more. Probably 90% of people don't tip. I also only really bother porting daily when there is only 1 other doing it. So again about 90% of the time I am just hanging around at the end interacting with people and helping those who ask for assistance in learning how to do the JP the intended way. The other place I've been tipped is NSS where I try to checkpoint people up the JP, not port them to the end. I essentially mentor them on the way up and teach them how to do some of the more annoying jumps or ones that require tricks like the gears on the way to the goggles which are just straight up broken. Again I don't ask for tips and anything that's excessive gets mailed back. Unless they insist and they keep sending it.I could do without the tip money, it's really not an income I rely on and I don't much care for having stuff in this game. Played on and off since 2012 on 2 differenct accounts and never once had a legendary lol. I just don't care for that stuff; I like developing skills, exploring and interacting; that's where my fun comes from in this game. It's that interaction part that I see best displayed at daily JPs where people are just there to get their daily done and are thankful for the people who stick around to expediate that process. I don't think there is much more difficulty in other dailies like interact with a vista or mine nodes in your home instance or guild hall that interacting with a mesmer portal becomes such an outlier and egrigous offender. I don't think the current rewards for JPs are anything to celebrate over either which is probably why their exploitability hasn't been a top priority for being adderssed. The restricted and time trial modes would return the integrity that you want and I also want, but I am trying to be diplomatic about it and strike some compromise that is beneficial for everyone. These devisive topics tend to lead to people being all one way or the other and the thread quickly degrades into ever louder shouting at each other that each sides respective stance is the correct one. That is not what I want, as Obi-Wan said "only a sith deals in absolutes". I think you'll find I'm more on your side than you know, but shutting down porting would be removing an emergent part of the game that fosters player interaction and does very little in the way of excessively rewarding the player. Also, how would you propose dealing with everyone who has already recieved the achievements and rewards? How would you distinguish between who completed the puzzles legitimately and who relied on assistance? Would you propose a complete wipe of jumping puzzle related achievements and ask everyone to go do them again, or just say from this date forth they have to be done legitimately while everyone else who got in before then can get away with it? That's why im saying add a second tier, with possible title as a reward, which is earned by doing them in restricted.

i think kharmin is saying the topic has been discussed before and so a new thread wasn't required. However, I think this is proabably the first time rebinding the key for the glider has been brought up as part of the main topic. Also unless the community facing members of anet staff have hyperthymesia, i think 8 months, and over a year before that is a decent enough time gap before bringing up the topic again? IDK maybe not. Not sure what the rules are around these parts on necroing threads or reposting an already discussed topic.

Regarding over complication: Regarding the JPs being hidden: Regarding poorly designed JPs that are difficult to know where to go: Regarding cheese of JPs: Regarding the distribution of developer time, I already addressed that in the original post because I knew everyone on these forums have different priorities. I knew from lurking @kharmin.7683 among other were likely to comment too and that they are not a fan of JPs. I'm just trying to provide perspective from the opposite side of someone who really enjoys them. I have tried to make sure my suggestions would require very little development time by picking from other features that already exist in the game and applying them to JPs. Also SAB is coming and development time is bound to be allocated to jumping related stuff and this is how I feel is the best it could be done; obviously aside form world 3 in SAB.

So a discussion was necro'd recently about the jumping puzzles being poorly designed and it goes over 3 pages: thread. Personally I think they're fine and the vast majority of players just don't practice jumping which is also fine because it's not really a conventional mmo thing. Though it is sad to me when that continuously leads to claims that anet is asking for pixel perfection, and that the core mechanics are broken; then subsequently that jumping puzzles should be simplified or removed. I go into why none of that is the case in the original thread but this digresses from why this thread is being made. I want to come at the issue from the angle that the JPs are mostly ok but maybe require some modernisation and to highlight some suggestions i've seen as well as my own. First the no mount and no glide zones that are haphazardly plastered all over them should be removed. This prevents people from being annoyingly dismounted when just trying to explore the open world, and also allows for much easier recovery so that people can practice and explore the JPs to figure out which way to go and get better at tricky jumps. They are already unfit for purpose because they are easily bypassed. As a daily JP porter I see people bypassing the zones all the time.An NPC is at the begining of the JPs with a key/transformation for being able to access the final chest, the chest is obviously locked and interactables that are intended to be reached through doing the JP are non-interactable unless the the player has the key/transformation (goggles at NSS, gold badges at retrospective runaround, orbs at scavangers chasm).The player has 3 options, unrestricted, restricted, time trial:Unrestricted places the no glide, no mount debuffs that currently get forced through zones on the player; but otherwise gives them full access to skills, interactions with other players, items like position rewinder etc (essentially allowing the JPs to be as they are now without the annoying zones). Having the key/transformation allows access to final chest and other interactables, and can be used for the daily JP / interactables / current crappy JP rewards while still allowing porters / helpers etc.Restricted places both debuffs, unless its a JP where glider is intended, and gives players a set list of skills/traits (stability, stealth, swiftness, block etc... no targetted leaps, passive speed etc) whilst preventing interactions with other players and using items. This would ensure the JP is done as it was intended to be done when it was first introduced. A second tier added to the JP achievements for completing them in restricted (possible title for completing them all in restricted). Better rewards or a currency for a JP vendor like the beetle races have for skins, resources, minis, sellable vendor junk or title w/e (you decide what's fair compensation).Time trial gives the same conditions as restricted but adds checkpoints that have to be passed through like the races in SAB (prevents speed runners pixel jumping and bypassing 80% of the JP). I figure either have tiered rewards (bronze, silver, gold) like adventures and beetle races and/or allow betting with payout every 3-4 hours (factors of 24) to the fastest 3-5 times. I think a betting thing could also be added to the beetle races and player/community made guild events (arena, custom JPs, custom beetle tracks etc) but that's a whole other thread. If betting is done, prevent winners from reentering for the day or week or some appropriate time frame inbetween. Again JP currency rewarded could also be considered and dependant on time trial performance.(optional) when possessing the key/transformation, dying allows the player to restart at the begining like in griffon rook run or spekk's lab. Maybe include checkpoints for the unresticted version like in spekk's lab.(optional) allow the player to choose to have a buff added to them that turns all other players / mounts into wisps/invisible like is done for the mad king clock tower. Prevents visual obfuscation from people just exploring /practicing the JP and possible trolls with skyscales parked in awkward spots.I think these changes would allow people to far more easily practice them without having to run back from a waypoint every time they fall. It retains their ability to be used in the dailies rotation whilst not removing the need to do the JP entirely and not putting porters out of work which I think is a cool emergent part of the game. It removes the ineffective and annoying zones. It opens up options for being more challenging/ engaging for the people that enjoy them and want more out of them. I understand many people would prefer development time being spent on raids or refreshing dungeons or reimplimenting shelved season 1 living world content but i'll leave those topics for people who have more interest in that. I figure I'll try come at the JPs from the perspective of someone who really enjoys them and as we are a few months out from SAB, there is probably development time being allocated to jumping related stuff soon anyway. If you have other good points to add i'll see if i can edit this post and include them below:

I think the claims about the core mechanics being faulty are coming from a place of lack of practice (barring the high ping glider claims). Core jumping is thankfully all handled client side and is the one thing in this game living in australia doesn't turn into a frustration. It is the one thing I have been able to practice and get good at without hitting an impassable cap as a result of lag. I will admit, jumping in this game can be incredibly precise, but that also allows for a very high skill ceiling as well as a very low floor. Not a single official jumping puzzle or task in this game requires pixel perfection as has been claimed. I know this because there are unofficial jumping activities which do (or something very close to pixel perfection; it's literally called pixel jumping). If you still think Anet is making things too hard, be thankful they don't ask of you to do anything like the jump at 26 seconds here (not even pixel perfect): And especially be thankful they don't require pixel jumping (or wall jump w/e you prefer) like at 28 seconds here: I suggest you give them a few attempts to see the difference between this sort of stuff that a lot of practice enables, and what is actually required from an official jumping puzzle. GW2 is a skill based MMO, you can't just grind to get the best gear and be among the best. Entering a raid in all ascended or legendary, isn't going to guarantee it succeeds, not even close. All other facets of the game seem to be understood to require practice to even attempt and especially to be good at. Same goes for jumping and the various difficulties of jumping puzzle on offer. Consider Not So Secret or Chalice of Tears to be the raid of jumping puzzles, whilst something like Spelunker's Delve is like an open world event. I rarely see complaints for the easier JPs, I suspect because they are super accessible for nearly everyone. The harder ones however attract alot of calls for nerfing or simplifying because suddenly what is mostly considered side content requires practice to be achieveable with any consistancy or ease. It's disheartening because there are those of us who would actually want harder JPs, or better rewards for harder versions or a good performance in a JP time trial. Instead we kinda have to resort to sequence breaking or map breaking to get the challenge. However, I also wouldnt want to force upon people who struggle with this stuff and don't want to or can't get better at it; far harder Jumping content. So, I respectfully ask, please stop requesting it be taken away from those of us who are starved for it. Speedruns in SAB tribulation a few weeks a year is kinda all we have. Last thing I have to say is I used to suck at jumping and would struggle just to make it across the floating stones bridging the canyon thing at Loch Jezt waypoint in Metrica Province. Now, after lots and lots of practice, getting to the goggles at NSS is as easy as walking from A to B in the open world. Some of the speedrun routes for JPs and SAB however; not so much. The skill level exhibited by certain players goes so unbelieveably high, and that's awesome. So honestly, consider practice before claiming the game is broken; at least in this department. I will however concede that the gears at the top of Not So Secret on the way to the goggles are badly placed/ programmed and require one of a number of tricks to be able to do consistently (these should be fixed). I also request the glider be given an option to be toggled off or rebindable to its own key and not tied to the jump key.

That Canthan looking building on top of a hill, where is that I'm afraid that particular building no longer exists in the place this screenshot was taken. This is way up the top of a gilded hollow guild hall, atop a tree. It was the end of the most difficult custom jumping puzzle i've completed and the view was very nice up there. The fact they added a canthan style building was just cherry on icing. From up there it looks like the map stretches on forever in all direction.

Screenshots that stood out to me in my collection. I have to admit most are from off the beaten path. https://imgur.com/a/Wqvln6a

I personally prefer the solution proposed by Bunji, or something along these lines. Wrote about a similar thing in the SAB thread (skip the TL;DR part and below): SAB thread

You could try dodge bouncing. Gives you a lot of distance and a fair bit of hang time in the air. Basically dodge as the trampoline is about to bounce you. Maybe it's as soon as you land for other people, I consistently have over 300 ping so you'll probably have to work the timing out and get a feel for it yourself. If the trampoline decides not to bounce you, you're just going to dodge to your death though so keep that in mind. Probably best to practice somewhere like the beginning of w1z2.