Mell.4873

Okay I have yet to see in when I play this content, also Raids/Strikes are the closest to simulating the Golem DPS experience. Very true, it took a few Hammer buffs for it to become Meta, but Off-hand Axe was broken right from the start.

That is how I play my PvE power untamed, again realistically you are doing about 20k, but a real strength is the AoE. With enough mobs to tag you can easily do about 40k+. Unlike Soulbeast that has a burst window, Untamed you have be consistently in the optimumal position for it to work. The best varient is the support version since Storm Spirit is much easier to land. But the Frost Trap is a must and synergies nice with Predators Onslaught.

Again if they remove Fervent Force and instead replaced it with more Damage (number adjustments) it would just be competing with Soulbeast. No mater how we spin it right now Soulbeast is leagues better than Untamed. The real answer is Untamed needs something unique like Fervent Force to be viable in WvW or end-game content. Soulbeast has Stances which are amazing utilities with lots of great application, i think you can get upwards of 5k extra Damage just by sharing them. Untamed has weird duel utilities meant to apply a buff based on who is Unleashed at the time. Something substancal needs to be in Untamed to make even close to Soulbeast like Fervent Force.

Yeah pretty much bang on what the real outcome will be if they remove Fervent Force. Like you said even now Soulbeast is better in almost every game mode except maybe PvP. Even if they went ahead and buffed Untamed so that it had better Power or Condition damage it would ultimately be a boring result since we already have a Pure DPS class (Soulbeast). I say double down and turn all the grandmasters into cooldown reductions traits so you have a tone of options to lower cooldowns and not just via CC.

This is factually wrong. Almost every weapon does not play nice with Fervent Force and you have to reserve two utility slots for stuns. Longbow and Greatsword are much better with either of the other two grandmasters. Shortbow and Warhorn can work but you will need both other stuns and good timing. Hammer and Off-hand Axe are the only viable weapons for Fervent Force. The only Core ability that comes close to being balanced because of Fervent Force is the stuns themselves so Path of Scars.

@Kodama.6453 How about every Untamed grandmaster trait lowers cooldowns but is triggered in different ways. Fervent Force: Stays the same except with my stuns can't trigger self reduction nerf. Restorataitive Strikes: Ambushs now decrease cooldowns by 4 seconds. Ferocious Symbiosis: Along with damage increase there is a pure cooldown reduction like Alacrity.

Path of Scars needs another CC to help reset it but the explanation was long enough without this being added. I prefer the idea that stun can't reset themselves since that would prevent the most egregious examples like Path of Scars. To some extent this would be the same 50% reduction nerf. Otherwise they will probably buff alot of the Untamed kit before they make any changes.

Hammer is not nearly as powerful

True but I have pointed this out on other threads but the semi pro players ofter had builded that countered projectiles. I saw a dramatic increase in Untamed players when the Rifle changed were introduced for example.

You do realize the rotation is insane to maintain outside the golem. So much so that I never seen or been able to get close to that 43k. At most I have gotten half at about 20k, i get more dps on my Soulbeast at about 30k average. Even if it is impossible they now want to remove Fervent Force and maybe replace it with something that makes it identical to Soulbeast which will be sad for any unique PvE builds.

Well what do you want, if you are not willing to counter the condition damage with an equally powerful heal what's the point in this topic. Ultimately don't play play Soulbeast in roaming, play Mesmer I also use Ranger in WvW roaming but I use every elite I have to counter anything I come up against. It is very easy to leave a fight and change builds on the fly. I have an infamous duel Longbow Soulbeast just for sieging it is so niche I change it as soon as I leave any Fort siege.

Hmm it's tricky there is no clear way to proceed, I like the idea that Untamed resets cooldown so maybe if all the grandmaster traits did this to some capacity it would be amazing. Either way this will probably have to rework some core traits/skills like when they split "Sic Em" for Soulbeast. I think what is lacking currently is a good reason to use the Ambushs, right now I often skip the Hammer Ambush so I can get back into triggering Fervent Force faster. I also love the idea that a CC can't trigger Fervent Force on itself (I believe its only delayed CC that do this)

No class could came close the reaction ability of Firebrand so with this change it might prevent future nerfs to the profession and we might even see buffs. I mean most supports have to preform a very strict rotation with their utility slots included in that for example Druid needing to run Spirits.

Yup you got my point. I could have said the same thing with the Rifle, keep old animation and slash the dps by 20%. Mind you the real problem with the machine gun animation was in PvP not really in PvE.

Oh you must be a Ranger with this description. Well first you have a an amazing Soulbeast heal that can literally eat conditions. Second is you have Druid and even though it got a condi cleanse nerf to a trait it is far better now, at more consistent cleansing than almost any elite in the game. This isn't rocket science play something the counters condition damage and then they can literally do nothing.

Seems like all the complainers just want a direct nerf. Maybe if we took the damage reduction to the Mech for not being close to the player and make it the default. They might be happy with that since now they don't feel like they are missing out by playing bad.

So it went from 0 to 2 They want to buff Untamed before they nerf Fervent Force so I'm expecting it to get better before it gets worse. I think is main problem is that all its traits are focused on Power Damage and all its skills are focused on Condition Damage.

How many Untamed players do you see in end-game instanced content. I'm guessing 0 so even now it is under powered and barely has any use case outside a gimic build were you can reset your cooldown very fast with Path of Scars. Fervent Force is not a problem in PvP too.

I think a good start to fixing Fervent Force is my first suggestion, By not allowing the initial stun to reset itself you would limit stuns like Path of Scars. The Axe is still very strong though and the trait is very boring and offers nothing for Condition Builds.

Maybe, I just don't see what they could replace it with that would be equally powerful. Now that I'm thinking about it Untamed is barely used in PvE as it is. If they were to buff the damage above Soulbeast for let's say Condition builds then I could see it filling that role.

Well currently hands down Soulbeast is still better than Untamed so removing Fervent Force will bring it in direct competition. If they balance Untamed so it has better benchmarks and has a relatively easy rotation (right now this is not the case) then Soulbeast is useless and if the reverse is true Untamed becomes useless (It is power damege too). Ranger also won't get any new traits or skill so the only balance that could effect FF is more cooldown reductions which is unlikely.

I feel like at this point Untamed identity especially in PvE is tied to Fervent Force. It is the entire reason to play it over Soulbeast, both other grandmaster traits are directly worse than any Soulbeast build. I think they don't really understand this, at the very least they could split the trait up and offer a cooldown reduction somewhere else in the traitline so it requires more investment to get back to the power of current Fervent Force.

With the recent patch and the reality that they probably will nerf or even remove Fervent Force, I want to highlight the real issue with this trait to avoid its potential nerf. *skip to end if you want the solution The real reason they are looking to nerf Fervent Force is the fact that it has 43k Untamed DPS benchmark. If you look into why? It boils down to being able to reset Axe Skill 2 & 3 very quickly through the skill Path of Scars (Axe 4). Why is Path of Scars the culprit? Well we have 15 second cooldown skill being reduces first by a trait (12 sec) then by two stuns (once is itself). The final cooldown is 4 seconds. This gives the player very little time to cast skills but enough time to cycle both Axe Axe Skill 2 & 3 every 5-6 seconds. This is why it is so strong. I propose we do 2 things. First is do not allow Fervent Force to reset the skill (stun) that triggers it. This would prevent the first reset of Path of Scars. Second is removing the cooldown reduction trait from Honed Axe's instead replace it with buff to each skill like Shortbow trait. For example extra Bleed on main hand axe and extra damage on offhand axe.

Hmmm Mesmer is a tricky starting Class. Your best bet is Staff Mirage and go from there. Mesmer unlike other Classes only really becomes strong with its Elite specialisations so if you plan on leveling with Mesmer that might be very hard if you are inexperienced. Mesmer also doesn't have the default Low Intensity Build since all Elites can facilitate that playstyle with the right build.

Vipers even if you did go,Celestials you normally have to keep a few Assasin pieces just incase you don't get 100% critical chance.