Silvey.4287

From a spvp perspective, base mesmer base traits are lacklustre as they've been gutted over the years, forcing to choose between damage or mobility or surivurability. chrono is hard to manage and near unplayable because of set up and no unvulns. Mirage is still good and a very fun piece of design but not meta. Mesmer in general has bursts that are generally well telegraphed unlike so many other classes ( ele, willbender, ranger, harbringer etc) which is my major gripe with so many of the new specs. As for virtuoso the mechanics feel uninspired and bland the thematics are cool, I love mesmers aesthetic, if I could id want to play in every rpg game. I wont not stop playing it but how do thief's get specter or guard with willbender and we get this. Weapon Dagger is a cool weapon for mesmer, but is bad and no one is uses it as it has no utility. its projectile based and forces you to play as a weak melee at midrange range all the while applying little pressure, its outclassed by every other mesmer weapon in what it does. Dagger is also projectile based which is terrible as reflects/projectile denial are everywhere (ele, guard, ranger, necro, rev etc etc). Shatters Shatters are cool looking still one dimensional as being an addition to the class. They only work in front of you so you cant put any pressure while your running away or if you angle your character, unlike base/chrono/mirage etc so thats a hard nerf. The fact projectile denial/reflects remove our class design outright is terrible and in the current meta its hard to apply any pressure as it is as a mesmer. (then some willbender presses one skill for 6k without any setup(im salty yes)) Traitlines Top traitline is good, so good I dont want to build virt any other way, not because its too strong but because the other two lines are lacklustre that I dont even consider them. Compare that to mirage GM traits and your forced to think about what kind of build your making. Suggestions Make shatters fire in any direction Add utility to the dagger, perhaps make the 3 into a placeable aoe that deals damage, provides boon removal (wow an interesting way to counter the current meta and make mes relevant again!), projectile removal or reflection. id also honestly redesign the 2 on dagger it doesnt make any sense and doesnt feel good to use. Make the other two trait lines into viable builds that are interesting/creative, preferably with one trait somewhere that allows condi removal, maybe a trade of for aegis etc (your other choices is no dont get hit (high mobility) or inspiration). p.s Also give mesmer illusions more health they die to random aoe to easily. sorry if I chatted a load of rubbish

Statistics can be influenced by other unforeseen variables, they are not always representative of what's being presented. Here's an example; Aurashare tempest is good as a antiprojectile support, if bad players cant or dont cast their skills at the right time their team will be at a disadvantage and will be more likely to lose reducing aurashare tempests overall winrate. If a dev only balanced by statistics theyd see this drop and assume that its because its underpowered when infact its just bad players, at higher levels of play it might be used properly but that doesnt change the overall statistic. There are a lot of variables that affect balance and winrate should be one way to identify what is healthy for the game. 50% winrate also doesnt mean its fun or healthy for the game, sub 50% doesnt always mean its underpowered, hell even in a game without patches the meta changes. To be a good balance dev you would have to ask low, medium and, highskill players on their opinions of different classes and their own classes alongside statistics of traits and I mean with one spvp balance dev or whatever I doubt theyll fix a lot of classes. You cant really balance a game, atleast totally, but you change it to make it fairer and more enjoyable

true but atleast necros has some of the best baseline utility skills imo, theyll end up just playing the same 3 in pvp anyway

I very much agree, none of the trait lines are fundamentally bad but so much has been removed from basekit and synergies that most of the traitlines are just below average

lich should be nerfed as it isnt on par with the other classes elites in terms of impact when you compare to to nearly every other elite skill.

Im not quiet sure where to start, Ive been playing ranked for a while and got to plat on mesmer before dropping a few days after (I know that isnt good, Ive gotten 5.3k in dota and diamond in league so im not super bad in these sorts of games). I dont know if my experience is a universal one tell me if im just bad or something but what does mesmer currently do well at? For the most successful build ive tried is carrion axe/pistol|sword torch as a +1/roamer. Its seems to be ok as a support in teamfights because of the 4 dazes in the kit but is a fairly bad 1v1er, fighting on side nodes can be very painful. Meta classes seem to cycle so much healing, evade, block, reflect, invuln while pulsing fairly high consistant damage and this spec relies on jumping in interrupting and then bursting if your caught or run out of saves you die, if the enemy can out survive 1-2 bursts they win. The build is useful in team fights but blinds/agis nullifies the manta when these boons are constantly being pulsed. For matchups it can kill vanilla necro if you hit every daze in succession without interrupt, reaper are 50/50, scourges I struggle with. This spec struggles to kill rangers (permanently kite when they want, easy access to stealth regen evade block while pet deals damage and instant access to knockdowns into GS 3 etc, if you interrupt they just run away again if theyre smart but every ranger build feels awful to fight), holo (seem to be permanently invuln, projectile reflect huge jumps then crit you for 6k from nowhere), bunker builds like scourge and guardian do nothing but stand still and slowly whittling you down and you cant reduce them below 80% hp if they have thumbs with the amount of Condi corruption/removal, reflect, agis, protection regen they can cycle with little effort, a good DH guard can also permanently kite with trapper rules, aegis block reflect and steal makes and form of commitment on a double melee weapon build bad into the fight. If i havnt mentioned the class they havnt come to mind Ive tried a variety of carrion/sage|UD/lynx, staff builds going full signet alacrity spam (illusions, chaos, mirage) and chaos dueling mirage, chaos illusions mirage etc. I really like the idea of this build, I wish staff1, mainly due to the fact its a projectile and its very slow loving, its so easily Los'd, there's also a lot of classes that have ranged Condi weapons that are just flat better in terms of condi application and damage. For signet damage healing seems to be about even on SPVP build and is a support/damage hybrid. Condi's seem to be wiped instantly, stacking 4-6 boons with pulsing aegis, the instant you join mid none of your projectiles hit for about 10 seconds of a team fight if theres an ele guard or mm necro. I feel like the reason staff damage is tuned so badly is because of illusions also applying the same conditions, yet in pvp illusions how very low uptime and to get 3 staff mirages is fairly hard as youll want to use a shatter to survive or daze. The alacrity helps team mates but it doesn't feel like you actually do anything when it comes to damage yet youll end a game with 200k damage 180k healing. dom/duel/mirage marauder/scholar GS|S/T feels fun if no one looks at you for 20 seconds racking up high damage in teamfights (unless its a scourge or guard because reasons?????????) but if they try and kill you they will win eventually. see theif/ranger/other mesmers/revs/preaper etc, and if im honest shiro bow does this builds role better with better survive but without projectiles. 3-4k crit beams arnt that much considering the damage that comes out of holo/P reaper/ ranger/ shirorev/ren/DE thief. If you have a good team the damage can be high, but if I were making a team id rather have a shiro bow or p reaper for its utility sustain and reliablility. The build dies if it gets focused so its only really good as a +1 or a damage in teamfights. Ive tried rabid staff/ a/p|s/p dueling chaos,mirage. losing sword ambush makes you a weak roamer the damage is slightly higher, your also forced between having better condi removal or more condi damage (chaos 2 line) (mirage 3 line), you could trait condi mantra but you lose ambush utility which means team wide alacrity is reduced, I might test it a bit more... Ive tried hybrid shatter you sacrifice interrupts for more crit/sustain condi, but without dazes you struggle to kill a lot more classes, kind of a no go maybe needs more testing... Also chrono dead, Ive tried making a support chrono leading to 500-800 damage shatters and weak survivability, support isn't even that good when you compare it to scourge or vanilla guard (lolwhat), and pure power which makes you even more glassy than normal, so it can be fun but ultimately gimmicky. I'm sure I've said a load of stuff people will disagree with and I'm probably wrong in a lot of cases because im bad wondering if any other mesmers can share their experience in spvp, Being crit for 6-8k constantly by classes that don't even sacrifice all that much surivability in traits and utility as its just their base kit (necro, ranger, guard to a lesser extent) while dealing high damage just seems counter intuitive.

I think the thing im sad about is that were coming from mirage/ chrono (rip dead pvp class) both of which had really interesting design and thematic that fit well into the mechanics of the class. I dont really see how virtuoso is anything special, chrono was deeply complexe because of wells and rewinds (rip f4), and mirage is interesting because of IH/ambush / the playstyle of almost the original PU condi builds that have been gutted for so long. Virtuoso has a ranged shatter which is interesting but doesnt feel unique, I mentioned how this could of been a psuedo specialisation I think there needs to be more mechanics added to the spec and the dagger reworked.

It would be a flat nerf vs condi builds which would be really really bad. perhaps whatever damage would be the highest(including crits), still I think base dot damage is fine in theory as long as it doesnt diminish the proc damage.

I think virt just doesnt go far enough for a cloneless mesmer, could of added a shroud and made the shatters act like scourge or made each shatter a different weapon like firebrand/engie kits, could of made a madness based psuedo shatter like warrior berserker. Theres so many ways it could have been done but its just no illusion combo point ranged shatter.

Ive recently got back into gw2 I have played intermittently over the years so ive had snipped of how the class has envolved though my memory is hazy so forgive me if im wrong. I've been messing around with spvp builds for about 6 days trying to make builds and they all feel lacking, other classes seem to do what mesmer does but with a mixture of less effort/more damage (power necro/ranger/SB /holo vs shatter), more reliability/uptime on targets (ranger/holo/reaper/theif) and better survivability/better team utility(scourge/vanilla condi/weaver/tempest). Im left questioning what Mesmer actually does that's special that other classes cant do better Looking at mesmer weapons most projectile weapons feel awful to use with the amount of reflect/projectile nullification/evade/block/invuln that are in the game (also just simply LOSing projectiles) slow projectile speeds and slow cast time make any form of condition application hard to do if the enemy doesnt just run around a pillar. Otherwise trait lines force you to choose between traiting into impactful viable damage (dominion/dueling) or having traits that let you actually get hit once or twice by another player (illusion/chaos). As for core vanilla condi Mesmer was gutted when killing illusion didn't apply conditions anymore, and for power mesmers survive has been cut due to chrono/mirage feature creep, the only really viable base Mesmer is shatter and even at that its very glassy (many because of the lack of condi application in base kit and sceptre being a bad mainhand). Heres how I feel about some of the weapons: Scepter1 torment feels weak in pvp as players are never inactive, its application is low, (it felt a bit better before confusion/torment etc rework) and the fact its a projectile on the first two attacks doesnt help. Mirage ambush is cool but its torment again which just feels bad, It should be buffed to be more inline with staff ambush which is very cool. Sceptre2 is useful but it isn't an amazing defensive skill as its easily cancelled with an auto unlike other classes blocks (ranger GS block/ any other form of block) Sceptre 3 has a long cast time is easily interruptible for poor uptime with confusion. (my other issue is that all other classess have better condition basic attacks and when sceptre is suppose to be mesmers condition weapon its ability apply conditions is below that of other classes even if the damage is potentially the same, i.e thief pistol 1 rev bow1 necro sceptre1 all feel far better to use) Sword I like and it has its place GS theres projectiles but I think they move fast enough to react to especially as the counterplay to condis is cleanses the counterplay is spinning berserker is not being hit for 4-6k+, GS1 its very fun to use, the weapon skills are beautiful otherwise, somewhat got me hooked when the game released :d Staff my only complain of staff is staff1, the projectile is awful to use and unintuitive, it wish it projectile-less. I swear ive missed projectiles from players moving left to right, this is after the patch where they sped it up. OH Torch is nice Pistol is fine but needs traiting to make condi usable (not sure if thats a good or a bad thing) Focus I like but I wish the reflect was baseline, losing restorative illusions for a 5 second reflect doesnt feel worth it in pvp. SwordOH feels ok, a defensive power offhand, I do not like the block similar to sceptre. Axe is that it is the only mele condi weapon that mesmer has access to I actually enjoy using it not much else to say. Shield is interesting I wish I could use it more but chrono has dies instantly without f4 shatter even if you trait double defensive and have no damage (chaos inspo), just seem to die if anyone touches you. In my ideal world Staff1 would like mesmer downstate 1, projectile-less.I t would originate at the target without a projectile and then bounce from the target and onward, mabye it could have a cool animation of the targets head pulsing or something. Sceptre1 would look closet to the ambush but slower and a different damage type (look at thief for numbers necro/etc), maybe the ambush could be reworked like staff had. This is separate but related, traitlines for mesmer basically enable your kit to be functional in one dimension as every line only does one thing (there isnt cross synergy in the base kit), do you want any form of survivability(chaos/inspiriation), do you want any form of shatter damage (domination/dueling). I dont think mesmer needs more damage per sey (better condi application for sure), power shatter relies on making windows spotting them and exploting them and dealing a large burst, this is counter intuative to condi builts, if you get a burst of condis they can be cleansed the damage is avoided, long drawnout condi damage has been removed from mesmer which I think is wrong. The reason staff mesmer and axe mirage work is that constant pressure not this psuedo spike that can be cleansed. As for stronger class identity with its skills and traits perhapse rework some of the traits so theres less pressure to include the same traits every build( what id love to see is something like boon corruption onto mesmer (why is this on necro when mesmers all about manipulation) add more mesmery stuff into into traits skill like it use to have, it makes sense fundamentally as a manipulation illusion/chaos/denial class, it is a controller class yet currently its only control is making the enemy annoyed trying to track it across the screen when the player has 7 legendries. Virtuoso feel like base gw2 from a different timeline like a reworked vanilla mesmer, it doesnt do anything that makes me go "oh wow this fundamentally changes how the class plays!"( its just ranged shatters compared that to chrono/mirage/holo/druid/reaper any number of other classes that get a unique and different spin on the class). Its just what mesmer could of been on release if they didnt go with illusions being a npc. my other complaint is just one of baseline mesmer traits, it feels bad playing mesmer without 3 vanilla trait lines because of how sparse the tools mesmer has access to. I fundamentally love mesmer and ill keep playing it but I really want to quit, I love what GW1 mesmer stood for and I really wanted EoD to provide a specialisation with a GW1 mesmer style but I guess it might take 4 expansions for that. (For other classes that I think are utterly ridiculous, baseline necro traits/scourge/P Necros (necro as a whole feels awful to fight either with 40k+ hp pools with regen, shitting out damage without any effort, on top of being the only class that has boon corruption (which should have gone on mesmer, also who actually counters necros nowadays?? every tournament has 2-3 a team), high mobility (wasnt this suppose to be its weakness?)), rangers ( the constant blocks evades, 1750 bow range, 13k bowsalvo, easy kiting and very annoying pets while the ranger is permenantly unattackable), engies (holo nuff ???? why)) other classes are good at what they do but I hate them for it but thats ok I need to get good but im probably wrong in someway also im sorry if you read this