Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

The only thing I'm holding it responsible for, is the fact that it weapon master is affiliated with homogenization. The weapon master system is just a by product of Anet's homogenized vision they have. I criticize weapon master because it enables this poisonous Direction where we slowly strip away any sort of class unique feel, give less option than it does on paper, it makes for a balancing nightmare, and it just leaves devs creatively bankrupt because they have to adhere to the vision they created for themselves. Because of that, it encourage stagnation, and discourage innovation. Weapon master is a result of that lack of innovation. They're playing it safe now, and I don't see any good come from it. Sorry to break it to you, but if the homogenization has been prevalent for those years, and issues only gotten worse, then maybe having a vision base around that isn't a good idea.

So you want homogenization then? You want everything to be the same? You want classes to have every single utility, every single buff, Every single weapon, every single trait? Is this the extreme we need in this game? I never said that back then was the best, I didn't deny that the devs had favorism, but at the very least back then was manageable. At least it didn't introduce a very massive powercreep that came with homogenizing the balance. You think giving every single class Alacrity and quickness was going to fix what was going on back then? You think weapon master is going open up more options? This guy said it best. The last line of dialogue is important, because it's not feasible. How would they even go about this? How are they going to make weapons unique and worth using? And how they going to make sure that their decisions doesn't conflict with other classes who could probably do better regardless of the change? How the hell are they going to ensure that their changes doesn't have side effect? It's a lot of work they made for themselves now, for a novelty. Even the classes are degraded into being known for the boon they provide, instead of what the class represent. Anything that made these profession stand out in the slightest got nuked into orbits. I just want to see a middle ground to this nonsense. There is a middle ground, I don't know why people feel compelled to be either one side of the extreme or the other.

Lots of threads and posts would beg to differ. No one is "fearmongering" Anet. They are expressing concern and feedback to them because Anet haven't exactly been making good decisions lately. They're pessimistic for a reason. As for weapon mastery, I never wanted Weaponmaster to begin with quite frankly, Because I knew it would create more homogenization, to many options for the devs to reasonably balance, and any mistake the devs makes, which is easier to do with something like weapon master, that's extra dev time they have to commit to fixing their mistakes instead of actually fixing more important issues. I never said weapon master need to be removed. It too late for that. Just a lot of folks putting words in my mouth. But that doesn't change my opinion that weapon master had no place in a game like this. And to think Weapon master will make the game easier to balance is absolutely foolish. But Weapon master will undoubtedly influence a lot of Anet's decisions going forward. And I see no good coming from that. I take issue with weapon mastery because it does lead to more homogenization. More dullness, more illusion of choice that will be harder to balance the more Anet adds more option into this game. It will be a balance jungle. And yeah, the balance back then wasn't perfect. But it sure as kitten better than we have now. Just because the balance is bad doesn't excuse anyone for making it degrade even worse. And yes I said worse. To say things are improving is really a out of touch thing to say considering all that happened the last few years lol. But hey if me voicing my problem is "ridiculous" well that just means I'm doing something right lol.

Most of the people I've been arguing with are too narrow minded- too smoked up on the hopium, and blind by the novelty of it all, to think of the problematic implication Weapon master would bring to the table. They're arguing with their own selfish reason in mind. Only a few folks I've seen here during our discussion are actually reasonable. Anyway, If Anet is struggling to maintain balance now, It's only going to get worse with weapon master, not better. Anet has a history massive balance history that only made the experience worse for players. They're just going to continue like how always make patches. Creating band-aid fixes, and not having the foresight about problematic design until it's too late. The doom and gloom didn't come out of no where. Take a look of the engineer forum, Mechanist absolutely loathe Mechanical genius the way it is now. Look at elementalist after the latest patch. A lot of undeserved nerf to circumvent the actual problematic weapon. Weapon master brought to the table. How about the warrior forum, chock-full of despair and anguish because their class struggles the most to this day. I envy them actually, they have more commitment and staying power than any other mains I've seen. That's just a couple example at how player feels jaded about the balance so far. So yes. Balance IS that important, because it tied directly to the player's enjoyment and satisfaction. If their class feels unsatisfying to play, people feel less inclined to log in and play. The only reason that isn't the case is because the playerbase are very tolerant of bad changes Anet has made over the years, because they do love the game, even when they feel more jaded each time Anet makes a bad decision that affects them. but that kind of tolerance doesn't last, because most people already feel jaded as it is. Hell, June 2022 patch was nearly the straw that broke the camel's back. The only people who wouldn't care all that much are the players who touch Open world and the story, and nothing else. And even they don't realize how much the powercreep is carrying them though most encounters. Only time can tell what the future holds, but regardless how anyone feels or thing, there are a lot of validation in my arguments if you take a look in the past to see what Anet has done, if you take a look at how players are feeling outside your own personal feeling.

Thank you for being reasonable. Anet has proven time and time again that they do make these "band-aid" fixes to critical issue. And it does haunt them at the end. But my biggest issue with weapon master is the fact that we're now going to balance around this feature, which doesn't only expose those old issues, it add more fuel to the fire. It enables even more bad decisions on top of already bad decisions.

And you're not wrong, but you have to ask yourself, how are they going to balance the core weapon and classes without making the power creep that much more absurd? How do you ensure certain combos doesn't vastly over perform than others?

Well no kitten it's fun to play. But that doesn't translate to Balance. Vindicator when Anet changed it to have two dodge was fun, wasn't it? It was a blast to have a near 100% uptime with dodges. But it wasn't no where near balance though. Vindicator are still feeling the consequences of that change to this day. You can have fun with your own build all you want, but don't mistake that with how balanced the class is. You only adapt the shift in meta so much until you realize the Balance is getting worse. Weapon master training has caused a paradigm shift, that much is clear. But you have to think of the bigger picture to understand the problematic implication this brings. The real changes, are long term. The latest patch notes are warning signs of things to come for the future. It doesn't look impactful now, because we haven't had any more balance patches beside this one. Anyone who isn't blind to the novelty can see how hard the balance team has it more than ever. Again, they struggling to balance the game before soto, and I don't think weapon mastery will change that. You can say that we're doomsaying and all that, but rarely have they ever been wrong.

Are we going to keep using this red herring now? I'll say it before, and I'll say it again. The issue isn't the fact you are buying for a new feature. I don't care if Anet is charging for a new feature. I care about the feature itself, and the fact that it is creating a balancing nightmare for Anet to deal with to create a false sense of diversity. We're still in early Soto, and we're already seeing builds reaching adsurd dps. Something that is nearly impossible during the pof day. It's clear as day the powercreep has gotten severely worse. It's impactful for the wrong reasons. And now, core weapons and Build that isn't reliant on weapon master got indirectly nerf because weapon master made everything too strong. Non weapon master builds are getting kitten because weapon master exist. I don't expect weapon master to be removed, But Anet also got to understand there are consequences for this. I can see where their vision for combat is leading too, and it's nothing good. The moment Elite utility skills get the Weapon master treatment, That's where the kitten storm will really begin.

It doesn't really address my point though. At the end of the day, we now have selling point of an expansion, that impact the balance in a massive way. The fact we're already feel it's effect should say something.

Your point is Irreverent. People are pissed that weaponmaster has caused balance to go out it wrack like it has, and how some weapon has gotten some undeserved nerf in a attempt to nerf the actual problematic weapons. Players having them, or not having them has nothing to do with that, though frankly, to call it content is offensive when all they did was remove some code to allow players access to those weapons, thinking the combat will be better. I care more about how the "content" they're selling will affect the long term health of the game than the actual price.

Someone in this conversation who actually gets it. It's easy to smoke the Hopium and think Weapon mastery will bring about great things, but they're ignoring the fact that we have had pretty bad balance patches thought these years. The false hope is something this game does not need, and you shouldn't be branded as a "Doomer" For bringing reality to the situation. Like you said, this make the spagetti code that much more tangled, and the potential to damage future balance is that much higher. But as this figure has said. Aka, Just consume like a good mindless little costumer. Stop thinking about the problem, and pretend they don't exist.

But how is it more manageable, when these weapons are now able to synergize with other elite spec, That's what weaponmaster training does as well. It create more synergy, more variables for the balance team to consider. I have never seen homogenization bring balance in any game. You stagnate the combat system at best, or make other options a more superior option than others at worse. I know better because I've seen this happen in Elder scrolls online. In their path to create diversity and homogenized balance, They have consistently create problematic patches that caused dps to be massively overtuned, and make certain builds in pvp outright broken, Because they kept adding variables into the mix. You could never compete with anyone those added things. So they would constantly start nerfing damage across the board because they don't know how to stop the mess they they keep creating for themselves, and that lead up to game update 35, where people got sick and tired of the constant nerfs, and caused a mass exodus. Ask any Eso vetren about Update 35 and they will tell you the why update 35 is a very infamous patch. I don't see how homogenizing Gw2 will bring about better balance. The balance team is struggling to balance their game even before weaponmaster came into the picture.

You know, you could read our discussion and make actual counter arguments before cherry picking my post and gaslighting people for no reason. gaslighting seems to be really popular with you.

What exactly are you trying to tell me? That Anet has less to worry about after they gave elite weapons to core spec? That's not how this works.You're not even considering the fact that other elite specs that originally didn't have certain weapons, are going to synergize those weapon FAR better than the original elite spec. They're not doing what you think they're doing. They're actually homogenizing everything. And lets not pretend all of this was reworked. Anet is just selling you a key to unlock an otherwise restrictive feature. They gotta sell that expansion anyhow, Balance be damned. And I said it before. They could stabilize it, they very well could. But it won't last when they sell the next biggest thing to drastically change the combat system. Then the cycle repeats itself until we imploded ourselves.

Oh trust me I am calm. But I also take the issue seriously. And I don't you or Anet understand the scale of how much of a uphill battle the balance team has to face now. The very moment Anet added Weaponmaster training to the game, Anet has effectively made their job that much harder to balance. They have too much variables now, and whenever they start to nerf stuff, they can't do it without indirectly nerfing other aspect of that variables. That's exactly what happened with the lastest patch. They effectively nerfed all the synergy that made problematic weapons powerful, while Indirectly nerfing weapons and skills that didn't even deserve it. You have to keep in mind that the elite weapons were never meant for use for core or other specialization. It's not something the dev should be retroactively balance. You need foresight to make that large of a balance decisions and quite frankly the balance team is incapable of it, because now every class in the game can hit around 40k plus dps. And even if the balance team does manages to stabilize everything, You still have to consider the fact that Anet intend to add new stuff to combat every expansion, alongside the the new weapons we're supposed to be getting at one point. It's not realistic to balance things while they add more variables into the mix because at one point They're going to implode the whole balance. Like I said. The negative will show long term. Because this very much a long term thing.

Hey if you want to sacrifice the game's sense of balance for your own selfish gain, more power too you. But for everyone else who has enough sense, are slowly realizing the red flags Weaponmaster is bringing into the table. If the fact that nearly every class can hit over 40k dps now. Long term, weapon master is going to cause so much unhealthy balance. Just to cater to folks like you lmao.

You must be deaf then because Weaponmaster training has brought Nothing but trouble lmao

And Anet nerfed it by nerfing everything that remotely synergies these weapons, Affecting other weapons that didn't need nerfing at all. As a result, we have a situation where you made underperforming weapon even worse to use for the sake of nerfing the actual overperforming weapons. We have even less option than before lmao.

Really make it sound like the homogenization is coming together in the worst way possible, doesn't it?

Lmao, You can't gaslight harder if you tried. 15 pages of the most universally hated patch of 2023. June 27. 15 pages of players feedback threw into the void by Anet. And now all of a sudden you and Anet are having this surprised pikachu face when people get pissed that they're not heard. It's no wonder People leaked the Balance discord.

But back then, not every class could reach 40k dps. It was considered a anomaly at best. I don't see the point you're trying to make here. You also have to think about how many patches we had that lead up to the point where every class can breach 40k, because patches like giving everyone and their grandmother quickness and alacrity definitely had a hand in the power creep. The elite weapontraining trait is what sealed the deal though. Again, If we have to make nerfs, it has to be the right nerf, and not be blinded with the here and now. If you just swing the nerf hammer wildly in hope that things will get balance, you're only going to get a pissed off playerbase.

And why do you think that is? Instead of ignoring this big fat elephant in the room, lets point out the fact that elite weapon training has single-handedly increase dps across the board, and should have never been a thing. Every class wouldn't have 40k at the end of the day, Anet wouldn't have to retroactively balance these things. Welcome to homogenization dude. The dps is only going to increase as long as their vision is to provide diversity. You don't think the new weapons are going to add even higher dps? I got news for you lol. They do have to nerf all these powercreeps. But you also have to understand what caused this powercreep to begin with, and take the issue from it's roots. Blindly nerfing stuff because it's too strong isn't going to fix the fundamental problem. It isn't simple as "Nerf this because it's too strong." There has been too many of that, and a lot of classes suffer for it.

Lmao, if you think the solution is as simple as nerfing pistol, torch and even scourage, you're in for a rude awakening lol. If you start nerfing everything that synergies with these two weapons, What ends up happening is that you start to indirectly nerf the tools Necromancy has for no reason, and as a result, you start nerfing builds that has nothing to do with today meta, and make them even weaker. That's the reality Anet created. There are too many variables to consider now, and it resulted in everything getting tangled. You can't change something without affecting something completely unrelated, and that goes for other classes too, not just necromancy. So no, it's not simple. It's more complex than you realize. I know because this is exactly How Zenimax balance Elder scrolls online. I know where this direction is heading too, and it's nothing good. And No, I don't have faith in the balance team, and if you look at this thread, not many folks here have faith either. When you have patches like june 2022, and the it's latest cousin, how can you? When you post a balance follow up with nothing to show? They're either hiding something, or have absolutely no idea how they're going to fix this mess.

The only reason people are using Elite weapon now is because Anet axed the restriction in place that prevented players from using said weapon outside of specs like renegade or bladesworn. That's why everything is so grossly overpowered now, because Guild wars 2 never intended the player to use Pistol and torch on a scourge. That's not even mentioning all the buff Scourge got. It's not that core skills are too weak, because lets be honest, People still use some core weapon and utility skills even after SOTO patch. It's everything else. We're too juiced, Because of all the previous patches up to this point. If anything, Anet should address the power creep. They need a solid plan, Not randomly buff or nerf things and hoping it would appease folks.

But how does buffing core skill even remotely fixes both the homogenization and powercreep issue? In fact, how do you even buff the core skills anyway? What's the plan there? Because you can't just randomly start buffing and nerfing stuff retroactively. It's what happening now, and Anet's balancing team just can't handle it. The core skill isn't the problem, nor is the Meta builds you keep seeing. The problem is Anet's vision of giving everyone every tool in the game for the sake of diversity and variety. Every class now has access to quickness and alacrity, Each class now have access to their elite weapon spec. They make huge changes like these, and then they act surprised when every profession across the board can achieve 42k dps or higher. I didn't touch core skills because it's irreverent. They have nothing to do as to why the balance is so kittened. It's Anet vision. It's not working. At all. Their vision only causes problems.