Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

While I agree the boss should be adjusted to have her attack be more consistent. Lets be clear here. Despite the complaints about how hard it is, That isn't the problem. The problem lies with the waiting you need to do just to attempt it again. That's the real frustration here. Lets understand the context of these complaints. It's not that people are saying these complaints because it it's too hard. Lets be real, if you actually give it an honest try, and have actual communication, the fight is really doable. Easy even if you have people that know what they're doing. That being said, when you mix difficulty with the 2 hour wait time, is it any wonder people are frustrated? Is it any wonder people just want to get the turtle and get out? This is what REALLY causing Dragon end to fall apart. If you fail at any point, You have to wait 2 hours to try it again, and because of that, you're going to find players getting annoyed real easy, and make a lot of noise about how hard it is, when in reality, they're complaining in context of the fact that now they have to wait 2 hours just to try again. So if they want to attempt it again, they'd have to find a new commander who's world is completely filled to the brim, and afk with their 10% bonus stacks. Doing events once and a while just to refresh it. That's what I did, and I'm sure so many others did too. I feel like the context of the subject is important, because there is a lot of misinformation going on about how "Impossible" The fight it is. It isn't. But the illusions is there, due to the 2h time limit. It's important to point out the illusion, especially to the hardcore pvers who are able to breeze though this with a static group. As long as that illusion is there, no one will touch it again after getting their turtle. No one wants to waste 2 hours of their time for what seems like a hopeless attempt for them. Time is a luxury most people with responsibility don't have. That being said, I don't want Anet to abandon the idea per say. I do like the idea of a challenging open world map where a group of 50 people should work together to defeat. What I think they should do, especially for future content, is to make a casual map mode, and a CM map. Make it so you need to activate a CM mote or something to get into these type of maps, but if people want a challenge, the option it's there, but I digress. Just my thoughts though.

Lmao, if this is a way to deal with afkers, why the Stealth nerf? Why this Solution? Want to know the irony of this is? This isn't going to encourage people to do the VB meta. All it'll do is make people move on into other maps like silverwaste to get the money they need. People bitching here about how much money the VB Shiny farm made, don't realize a couple of thing. 1. The rewards only pops up once in a few weeks. 2. Afkers don't make a lot of money compared to someone who was active. 3. This farm have been a thing for years now. So it isn't like it was screwing with the economy. This change kittens over everyone who does the VB event. Not just Afkers looking to make a quick buck for zero effort.

I can't confirm if Anet had stealth nerfed the farm, but I can tell you that throughout the time I've been actively farming stoneheads, I've notice that I have had gotten FAR less shiny bauble then I have in the past, and everyone in the map chat also pointed this out. something is wrong here, and I want to hear what other people's thought on the matter before I make facts.

Jesus christ, where do I even begin with their suitability. Why? Why are we doing this again? Am I missing something here? Didn't anet dialed it back because people thought the trade off wasn't worth it for having less health than a thief or ele? What's going on here, I don't understand. Harbinger already a meme in beta 4, are we really going to make it worst? And it not like they change the range for our mobility skills during shroud, so I don't get it. I've already spoke my mind about how harbinger will perform in pvp, and I will do so again. It's an absolute meme, and the fact that you're shoving this kitten down people's throat is so out of touch, I can't fathom it. Either take away my shroud, or reduce my max health by 50%. Stop doing both, it's punishing for the wrong reasons, and it's redundant. Unless this is the reason why the decided to make blight reduce our max health by half again, and if it is, this is a horrible, HORRIBLE Reason. Lets do the math, shall we? 13x25=325. 325 healing per tick. Assuming you have 25 stack of blight, which, lets be real, unless you're out of harms way and not worrying about death constantly while you're accumulating blight over time, is not going to remotely encourage player to play harbringer, in pvp at least. That's not even going into all the sustain nerfs that Harbinger desperately needed pre nerf, because Anet REFUSE to give Harbinger a fair trade off for losing out their one and only defense. If I can't use shroud to tank the damage, because that is literately the only thing a necromancer can do to defend itself, what am I supposed to do when I get spammed with constant cc, and get zerged down by the enemy team?

If you thought they gutted necromancer in the past, Never have I've seen the level of nerf SO out of touched lmao.

Seriously though, if they were going to do this, They should have been hush hush about it at the very least, cause a sensitive topic like this is going to spark a panic, and everyone and their grandmother is going to panic buy the coins for future profit. I do envy the people who have been hording them though.

The people hoarding Mc from dailies are going to be thrilled with this. Better panic buy while you still can.

Solo wise, that's why I said might should be boosted up to 150. This way you'll still get a reasonable buff as a trade off of not being to stack it by yourself. Group wise? I'm hoping this will diverse other Profession and elite specs to fit Boon roles they simply couldn't before. It's very much a suggestion that I hope can be improve, and eventually, it'll be something Anet will take into consideration.

That is something I totally agree with personally. In this case, I believe my purpose changed would help devs be more flexible with diversifying more boons across the Profession. Originality I figured that a system like this would ultimately force player to decide what class they need, since they obviously can't get ALL the boons like they could with this system in place. They would have to sacrifice something, or find classes that can offer other boons beside quickness for example, but I think being more diverse is a much better way of going about it.

I took a look, and personally I'm glad you realize that Perma stealth needs to be toned down. I don't think I was asking for much. It just needs to be adjusted, Not gutted. I don't care about anything else. The damage they deal, their evades, Whatever. All I want to see is Perma stealth not being viable, alongside some much needed counter plays that doesn't revolve around wvw mechanics. So Thank you for being reasonable.

The way I've seen thieves act in this forum, and ingame insulting and gaslighting anyone who is concerned about thief? You could have fooled me. Again, This level of hatred people have for thieves didn't come from no where. They're just too jaded with wvw and thief to even care anymore. 3 of the same people might I add. Cause lets be real. Most people who said their piece left, even Op. There's nothing left to discuss at this point, and we're just arguing with brick walls.

I'm not making drama Yfi. I'm just pointing out the issues Thief have, and calling out any thief players who gets offended whenever someone want to see some adjustment. And really, that's all I want. I want to see thief get adjusted, and to see more and better counterplays for other classes. I'm not asking to see thief be in the state that Harbinger was in during the 4th beta. If anything, you guys are bringing out the pointless drama and gaslighting anyone who thinks thief is overtuned slightly. I'm trying to be civil at least and trying to explain why I feel thieves is overpowered. And I did. Me, and other people have provided counters to your argument. I'm just looking for a middle ground at the end of the day, cause lets be real. Someone got to do it, and Thieves sure as hell isn't going to look for a compromise. It's easier to tell players that it's a l2p problem for not using a wvw mechanic that has nothing to do with player skill and insulting them about it. Yeah, Wvw isn't balanced around small scale and 1v1, and it won't have a perfect balance at all. But that's no excuse to not try at the very least. And really, if you didn't care for this thread at all, why did you post in it at all?

Well when people like you make responses like this in the most passive aggressive way possible, can you blame these players for being so jaded that they rather see Thief gutted? I mean, I want to know. How many actual tools, not the wvw ones, Actual tools other classes have to fight back against a thief players? The only one I can think of at the top of my head is Reveal. But again, It's extremely limited, and it does nothing against a thief player who can teleport all over the place and outrun you, Let alone being able to remove Reveal as a dead eye. And most class doesn't have nearly the mobility to catch a thief, so chasing one is pointless. YET, a thief will continually harass you to no end because they feel like it, and there is nothing you can do about it, other than hoping you have the extremely rare chance of catching a thief. Any other classes is at a severe disadvantage here, cause chasing is pointless, they die in one hit, and they can easily escape whenever you DO End up catching him, and you can't easily run away either because a thief can catch up with you to continue their harassment. Your only option is to run to a tower, to a zerg, or in a keep, or use the painter. Otherwise, you're fighting a nearly hopeless battle of hunter and prey. Does that sound balance to you? No, scratch that. Does that sound fun to fight against? But it's easier to defend thieves to the grave, ignore any of the argument made on how thief is overtuned and needs balance. It does need balance. and tell players like us that we're morons for not using wvw mechanics, when we shouldn't need it in the first place if thief was balanced. "Oh we are crying on the forums, we're bad players, we don't know how thieves work. We shouldn't be wasting our time "Crying" On the forums." Like it discredit our very valid criticism. It doesn't, just shows how immature you guys are being. Telling us our argument are strawman at best, without ever backing it up, while at the same time, you throw suggestions that sums up as "Swing your sword blindly and hope they die from it." Or other nonsense as that. I just want more counterplay options for invisibility and their mobility in wvw, THAT isn't using wvw mechanics. Thief is easier to deal with in Structured pvp because at the very least their cowardly ways would result in you taking the point. But there's no point to deal with in wvw, at the least, points that would cost your team a win. Have fun I guess. Don't think your silly emote and flexing is impressing anyone. For all I know, you could very much lying out your kitten about fighting a thief. If I could see an unedited gameplay of someone consistently beating a thief? I'll put the money where my mouth is.

I don't think I've said once that I wanted thieves to be gutted. What I want is thief to be tuned down, or gives other classes better tools to handle them. so don't be such a extremist and think that "All" The players want to see Thief become as worthless as Harbinger in pvp. Both extreme doesn't have to go both ways, and thief is just one end in that extreme. Good for you? I don't know if you expect me to give you a gold star or anything. Just because you're saying you're able to kills thieves doesn't exactly mean anything. And again with the redirects. Like, Yes, I know other classes are overpowered too. They also need to be tuned down, especially firebrand, but we're talking about thief, so stop playing the "But Look at these classes, they are op." It's irrelevant.

It's no secret that the Boon meta has gotten pretty out of hand, going as far to force other classes out for not providing boon the players need. So I've been at it for a while, thinking of a solution, and I'd like to share. Well to explain what I have in mind, lets use Might as an example. Might is a EXTREMELY easy to get boon that pretty much triveralize most of your skills in a squad if you have a might bot who can provide 25 might easily. So here's my purpose change to might. Since at 25 might gives you 750 power and condi, lets change the stack to a max of 5, and boost the potency of the boon to 150 power and condi. So that's 750 divided by 5. Of course I know what you're thinking, and hear me out, cause this is where I think this change will benefit the game as a whole. Instead of letting a single class buff a group of players up to 25 might. (or in this case, 5 might.) Cap Might to one stack PER SOURCE. That's right. You can no longer be a one man might machine with this change, You need other sources of might to reach that same level of power you had if you had 25 might. Which means, you need other classes to pitch in make might as strong as it is now. This is my propose change. Make all the boons in the game stack in potency, and cap it to one stack per Source, and this way, you will find MUCH more value in other classes like A Herald for a example. Of course the boons themselves and some of the skills and traits need to be adjusted to meet this type of change, but I think this is for the greater good. So boons like protection for example would only give you 10% damage reduction per stack, and can stack up to three. Adjust the duration obviously, but the idea is still the same. Cap the stack to one boon per source. Fury? Same thing. Each stack gives 5% Crit chance, 4 stack per source. I truly think that with a change like this, You'll see other classes shine like it didn't before.

Except that no other class has the level of mobility as a thiefs do. Other classes can't keep evading a zerg forever. A thief can, that's the difference. But lets be real, no one complaining about thieves outrunning a zerg. That's stupid. The problem people have is that in a roaming and small scale scenario, Thieves either gank you, or they fail and outrun you to a absurd degree until their cooldown and initiative reset, and keep harassing the other player until they die, in a keep, or within a zerg. There is NO real counter play for such a coward playstyle, And no, I'm not talking about mounts, or reveal from guards, ect ect. I'm talking about Counterplays within the player's class. A Player reveal does absolutely nothing to a thief who can outrun you, and it's even more useless if you're fighting a deadeye because they can outright remove the EXTREMELY limited reveals you have and stealth up again. Because they're not REAL Solutions. They're band aid fix to a internal wound. Anet needs to look into the fundamental problems not from the thief itself, but how to combat them in wvw, because all the other classes are VERY limited on what they can do. YOU just outright admitted that without the tower to help them, Fighting against a thief is a death sentence. That is horrible game design. I should be relying on my class skills, not some stupid wvw mechanic. The fact that you call players stupid for not using a tower just speak volume of the arrogance of players who main thief.

You know, it's rather petty to DM me to say I wrong and insult for providing the argument. without explaining WHY I am wrong. Try maturing up before going to the forums again, will you?

In other words, you have no counter argument to my "Strawman" And resorting to calling me dumb? Yeah, I think I rest my case. I hear copium is a strange type of drug.

You know, just saying my argument is a strawman doesn't make it an actual strawman if you don't explain why it's a strawman.

Love the fact that you forgot to mention that if a thief player knows what they're doing, the initiate resource is EASILY manageable. There are traits and skills that restore initiatives, or even increase the max amount of it, so I fail to see how that's a good argument. Lets not redirect other classes from the main topic. This is about thief, Not about firebrand, not Mesmer, Or even rangers. Sure, they have their own set of problems, But thief by far is the most egregious when it comes to wvw. Especially with the mobility and stealth they have.

That's not getting into the fact that a thief ISN'T going to target 7 people group together. Not unless they know they can get away with it. And lets be real, if you're solo roaming, and KNOW a thief is nearby, a painter isn't remotely CLOSE to being an answer. It isn't. You won't remotely have enough supplies to build it on your own, and even if you did, you have to waste time building the thing, leaving yourself open to backstab. This has been a problem for YEARS now. Anet keep dancing around the issue, trying to put traps and other nonsense to "Nerf" A thief's stealth, which didn't work. They merely adapted to it. It's very telling that the most reaction I have on my posts here are confusion reactions, because those are simply thieves who has embraced their ability to over preform in wvw, getting all salty for the fact that people, rightfully so, want their ability to disenage and stealth to be balanced. Considering the fact that all the arguments I've heard boils down to "Oh just blindly swing your sword and make aoe into the ground, and pry that said thief is stupid enough to be around there." Or "Just use revels guys, even though not every class/elite spec has it, and gets negated by deadeye." Or "Just use traps guys! It requires a lot of set up and supply point, and you need a zerg to do this reliably, but you know lololololol." It's pathetic just how hard People are defending this crap right now. The funny part about this, is that there is ONE class that "Just hit people while they're stealth" Strat actually works on. And that's ENGINEER! They're the ONLY class in the game that would have had a reliable, and GOOD reveal trait. If there wasn't a cooldown on it holding it back lmao.

Ok, first of all. I didn't ask for the purpose of it I asked on how to counter it, so you already embarrassed yourself there. I'm sure in your little elitist head that such a scenario is possible. That a thief is even going to sit there and let you hit them, or lock them down. But that's not how it works does it? No, in reality, In a wvw situation, they are going to try and burst you down, and if that doesn't work, they will stealth up, shadow step, and disengage until they reset their cooldowns and then it's rinse, lather, repeat until they get it right. Make no mistake, While Perma stealth is a supplement to how Thief function, It plays a HUGE part as to why they cause many players grief over the years, to the point that they're loathed within the wvw community. That level of hatred didn't happen out of no where. If stealth had to be near you, then I doubt anyone would mind it as much. But that's not what's happening. It's the the fact that they can zip around across the map with absolute ease while being able to be stealth though it all is the problem.

Ok genius, educate us. Since you seems like you know all about allll about thief. How DO we counter stealth? How do you prevent them from getting away from you the very moment you get close to them? If you know, tell us. Instead of wasting our time telling us we don't know jack kitten. I REALLY look foward to your answer.

Oh you mean Revealed right? A debuff that's not even baked into half of the core profession's kit, and not that many to begin with? Or maybe you're talking about aoeing them down because you somehow think that thief is going to stay in one place thoughout their stealth duration.

If you think that's obnoxious, You haven't reached the best part about Thief. When End of Dragons hits, Thief will be it's most powerful, and most over performing yet in pvp and Wvw. Why? Because Anet thought it was a good idea to give the new elite spec, Specter, Shroud. If you have played necromancer at any capacity, You'll know what this means. If not? Allow me to explain. Necromancer Only. And I mean ONLY form of defense is shroud. Not only does shroud give you an innate ability to mitigate 50% of enemy damage. It also act as a second health bar. So If you have 20k life force, that also means you have 20k health that is protecting your real health. Ok? So Imagine how busted this will be with at thief, who already have Skills like shadow step and perma stealth? Oh man, If you can't handle them before, then god help you now, because you will never beat them. You just won't. They'll be the ultimate duelist mesmers and spellbreakers wish they were. Shroud will protect them from harm, since their variant of the life force system protects them. Oh, and get this. While shroud is protecting them, Their cooldown for their skills will still tick down. So once their first layer of defense goes down, They'll start to use other defenses as well. Lets be honest, All of this requires a high skilling ceiling. But once a player masters that, and trust me. They will master it. Specter will be near unstoppable. Any thief who tells you the Perma stealth nonesense is a "Git good" Problem are morons. Plain and simple. Look at it this way, if your class you love the most is over performing, would YOU want it to be nerfed?