How do you play mesmer in open world?

[Moradorin.6217]

I did this once here it is again. 

53 minutes ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

WTF are you going on about? This topic is about open world. [...]

But if you read the OP He specified that he is actually comparing directly to other classes like Dragon hunter and Necro/reaper/scourge and other classes.

On 8/27/2021 at 9:02 AM, EpicName.4523 said:

[...] For example, going on a Dragonhunter I equip a greatsword, put on a trap, press the greatsword 4+2 and stuff dies. 

I go Necro, activate shroud and one press of 4 usually leads to insta death of everything around me.

Even a squishy Elementalist may struggle to survive, but still provides decent AOE. 

 

Mesmer? No. No  issues surviving, it just takes way too much time to setup a kill where other classes have no such issues. Maybe I am playing it wrong? Maybe mesmer is supposed to be played based on condition damage to slowly drain the enemy instead of bursting it down? 

Here is the quote again from the OP. He is not asking for general views about suriviability of Mesmer. He seems perfectly aware that Mesmer can solo champs and things. He is asking why Mesmer isnt as good as other power classes at clearing trash and running around OW which does actually relate to Mesmer in Fractals directly which was the context of my references to Fractals. That is, to compare how Mesmer does clearing trash mobs compared to other classes such as Dragon Hunter, reaper, scourge even ele. He (the OP) directly states that "Mesmer? No. No  issues surviving, it just takes way too much time to setup a kill where other classes have no such issues", after comparing its burst abilities to dragon hunter, necro and elementalist. My post was quite clear and focused and directly related to the OP. However, what you posted is more a post that attempts to argue that Mesmer is good because it can solo big targets which isnt at all what the OP was asking about.

[Moradorin.6217]

Here take a look. 

You went in circles with total fabrications. Also had some of my old posts deleted. I cant imagine you actually dont remember, but I seem to recall having some issues coming to agreement with you about basic facts, like that the sky in daytime looks blue almost. Looking forward to your responses. (Not)

[Moradorin.6217]

Im not going to bother going through the rest of the old posts to point out that you for sure have responded similarly in the past, and to very similar topics with a similar viewpoint that Mesmer is ok. In fact, in the others you argue one dodge was basically healthy.

[Moradorin.6217]

Many people feel that the Mesmer community has certain people that come here to say mesmer is fine and claim they main mes, at least some of which dont and just like Mesmer to remain in the crapper.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:29 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

Here take a look. 

You went in circles with total fabrications. Also had some of my old posts deleted. I cant imagine you actually dont remember, but I seem to recall having some issues coming to agreement with you about basic facts, like that the sky in daytime looks blue almost. Looking forward to your responses. (Not)

Living rent free in your head.

 

After reading I remember now, you're the guy who doesn't know how to get out of an AOE yet think you know something about balance...

Edited September 5, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:32 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

Many people feel that the Mesmer community has certain people that come here to say mesmer is fine and claim they main mes, at least some of which dont and just like Mesmer to remain in the crapper.

https://i.imgur.com/jJXGeQh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/T2Wir19.png

 

💋

[Salt Mode.3780]

5 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

https://i.imgur.com/jJXGeQh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/T2Wir19.png

 

💋

That doesn't prove anything lol...

One person's accolades doesn't mean the class doesn't have issues that needs to be addressed properly. 

I don't know how much you read or are you a selective reader but ANY class can be used optimal, no one is saying you can't reach high tier with Mesmer just there are other options that allows you to achieve that higher.  

If 2 players are the same skill level as knowledgeable towards each other Mesmer will fall short to many many classes.

Also ranking in sPvP means nothing considering how dead it is inside and with bots not being addressed. I'm guessing your post is to prove that you have credentials to what you are saying in terms of Mesmer balance which I hope I am correct.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

8 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

That doesn't prove anything lol...

One person's accolades doesn't mean the class doesn't have issues that needs to be addressed properly. 

I don't know how much you read or are you a selective reader but ANY class can be used optimal, no one is saying you can't reach high tier with Mesmer just there are other options that allows you to achieve that higher.  

If 2 players are the same skill level as knowledgeable towards each other Mesmer will fall short to many many classes.

Also ranking in sPvP means nothing considering how dead it is inside and with bots not being addressed. I'm guessing your post is to prove that you have credentials to what you are saying in terms of Mesmer balance which I hope I am correct.

 

I don't know how much you read or are you a selective reader but:

 

On 9/1/2021 at 6:32 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

Many people feel that the Mesmer community has certain people that come here to say mesmer is fine and claim they main mes, at least some of which dont and just like Mesmer to remain in the crapper.

 

So I post showing 90% (2774) of my games are Mesmer and I have 1700 hours combined on two of my Mesmers (I have 5 in total) to show "Hey, I play and main Mesmer". Then you go on some tangent having an imaginary conversation with things I never said. 

 

I'm not over here claiming to be some amazing player. I'll actually do the opposite, and say I'm not good. I know I have a ton to learn and improve on. At the same time though, I am not going place all my shortcomings as a problem with the class.  

[Salt Mode.3780]

59 minutes ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

 

I don't know how much you read or are you a selective reader but:

 

 

So I post showing 90% (2774) of my games are Mesmer and I have 1700 hours combined on two of my Mesmers (I have 5 in total) to show "Hey, I play and main Mesmer". Then you go on some tangent having an imaginary conversation with things I never said. 

 

I'm not over here claiming to be some amazing player. I'll actually do the opposite, and say I'm not good. I know I have a ton to learn and improve on. At the same time though, I am not going place all my shortcomings as a problem with the class.  

First off no, I am pretty sure you have the misunderstanding of the question to the thread, it isn't a thread on how op mesmer is in open world rather then "How do you play mesmer in open world." 

Second your post is not to further on answering the question this thread is opened to but instead furthering the spite you have with players that don't have the same views as you.

Open world there are other classes not just mesmers that can be "OP" like scourge and condi rev.

So back to the actual thread topic, Mesmers (Mirage) in particular excels better then Core and Chrono, Mirage with 2 Sigil of energy equipped on each weapon you are able to use ambush attacks more often as well as get the evade frames to dodge attacks, not to mention staff gives alacrity allowing CDs to recharge faster.

Only reason why I say over Core and Chrono is because those classes are burst style in which mesmer always had the issue of long cooldowns especially in open world where sustained dps is more preferred, but considering its open world almost anything will work so long as you have knowledge of the mobs you are fighting.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

16 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

First off no, I am pretty sure you have the misunderstanding of the question to the thread, it isn't a thread on how op mesmer is in open world rather then "How do you play mesmer in open world." 

Second your post is not to further on answering the question this thread is opened to but instead furthering the spite you have with players that don't have the same views as you.

Open world there are other classes not just mesmers that can be "OP" like scourge and condi rev.

So back to the actual thread topic, Mesmers (Mirage) in particular excels better then Core and Chrono, Mirage with 2 Sigil of energy equipped on each weapon you are able to use ambush attacks more often as well as get the evade frames to dodge attacks, not to mention staff gives alacrity allowing CDs to recharge faster.

Only reason why I say over Core and Chrono is because those classes are burst style in which mesmer always had the issue of long cooldowns especially in open world where sustained dps is more preferred, but considering its open world almost anything will work so long as you have knowledge of the mobs you are fighting.

First off, pretty sure I gave a very detailed response in my first post on how exactly I play Mesmer with a power build rotation. Even later in the post giving builds that are great for soloing champions. 

 

Second, your post is jumping in mid-conversation and is not to further on answering the question this thread is opened to but instead furthering the spite you have with players that don't have the same views as you. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Moradorin.6217]

If you read what the OP asked. He was asking why Mesmer is slower than other classes in OW. Based on him saying that. 

On 8/27/2021 at 9:02 AM, EpicName.4523 said:

its mechanics feel like they leave something to be desired. I tried using this class with berserker gear and it looks very underwhelming, particularly in open world. It takes way too much time to spawn clones, the moment you kill a mob the clones disappear, there is serious lack of AoE outside of F1, and the damage is sooooo low...

So, bascially, giving him advice like a rotation that spawns a bunch of clones and uses F1 isnt at all what he is asking. In fact, is seems pretty clear he has played with it and other classes. After playing with it he finds he is stuck with downtime. It sounds like he is dealing with limitations of cooldowns and how dependent mesmer is on F1 or F2 depending if you are on condi or power.

He isnt asking about how to pack more punch into a hit, nor is he asking how to sustain to kill a champ. He is comparing Mesmer's ability to keep up with trash clears and combinations of mobs at the pace he can keep up with other classes. Which is why I said exactly what I said. Its also why L2P is a cop out and has nothing to do with it. The OP in effect, is complaining about Mesmer's setup time and the way it requires so many skills be combined with long cooldowns to get kills and a a limited supply of them compared to other classes.

Making a generalization that mesmer can kill champs and have big burst doesnt counter this argument. Saying you are very skilled also doesn't change how Mesmer is by design. Doing well with Mesmer doesn't mean its better than other classes. The community has a pretty large consensus at this point that compared to other classes Mesmer has a hard time keeping up. Its not meta in Fractals for a reason Power Chrono is said to not always be the best pick compared to other DPS class options because its prone to mistakes and people have to know phases better than average to manage it correctly. It doesnt mean it cant work.

16 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

https://i.imgur.com/jJXGeQh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/T2Wir19.png

 

💋

Similarly, performing well in pvp with Mesmer doesnt mean Mesmer is strong, especially, when almost ALL of your play time is on the ONE class. If its ALL you play I would hope you kick kitten at it. Having some perspective about classes in general and being able to recognize that Mesmer has some issues on the other hand would demonstrate perspective, rather than just obsession and attitude.

 

Again, you could perform much better on another class with less time invested. Its nice that you are so dedicated to Mesmer, but it doesnt demonstrate Mesmer is better or even strong.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Moradorin.6217]

If you look back at your initial response to the thread you literally tell him do use what is says is too slow, and suggest its big damage so all is well. 

On 8/27/2021 at 9:39 PM, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

With power builds you really shouldn't be having any problem killing things fast. That is what power Mesmer is good at, big burst. You want to use Greatsword + Sword/(Pistol or Focus). You want to use your skills to quickly build clones and shatter them (F1 is your big damage shatter for Power builds, F2 for condition builds). You would do something like Phantasmal Berserker into Mirror Blade, Mirror Images, Mind Wrack, Mind Stab, (the Phantasmal Bersekers turn into clones) Mind Wrack again. You would do all that over the course of a couple seconds and do big damage. 

It doesnt seem like this is what the OP is asking for since its still limited to the same F1 cooldown before its repeated. compared to the OP referring to Necro and dragonhunter. BTW I didnt make up the meta but they sure as hell has Mesmers clearing (fast repeat killing w cleaves) into consideration when they made the meta and Mesmer was found lacking by them. So please dont attack me as if its my fault or like Im doing anything other than posting my viewpoint on the topic at hand.

We dont all have to agree but I dont see the point in having a 00===> size contest to compare mesmer to other classes.

[Junkpile.7439]

Would be kind of op if my core mesmer hit +20k burst from stealth and would continue spam top dps after that. 🤣

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:52 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

If you look back at your initial response to the thread you literally tell him do use what is says is too slow, and suggest its big damage so all is well. 

It doesnt seem like this is what the OP is asking for since its still limited to the same F1 cooldown before its repeated. compared to the OP referring to Necro and dragonhunter. BTW I didnt make up the meta but they sure as hell has Mesmers clearing (fast repeat killing w cleaves) into consideration when they made the meta and Mesmer was found lacking by them. So please dont attack me as if its my fault or like Im doing anything other than posting my viewpoint on the topic at hand.

We dont all have to agree but I dont see the point in having a 00===> size contest to compare mesmer to other classes.

What meta? There is no open world meta. If you wanna have a conversation about Fractals and Raids I will gladly have that conversation with you outside this thread. There is nothing lacking in terms of killing speed in the open world. 

Ill try to teach you Mesmer and why the rotation I posted is actually what he is looking for. Ill take it right from your quote you posted: 

"I tried using this class with berserker gear and it looks very underwhelming, particularly in open world. It takes way too much time to spawn clones, the moment you kill a mob the clones disappear, there is serious lack of AoE outside of F1, and the damage is sooooo low.."

Takes too much time to spawn clones: Mirror Images, instant double clone generation, mirror blade at melee range is instant clone generation, you have 3 clones up in literally the first second of an engagement. A couple seconds later your berserkers become clones and you have two more clones. Another shatter. 

 

OP clearly needs help with his rotation to make use of his clones. If his clones are appearing after the mobs are dead or if he thinks it takes too much time to spawn clone and he isn't getting use of them, there is a clear problem with his rotation. And that can be fixed. And that's ok. That is the point of the input I am providing. 

 

Mesmer is not guardian, it is not necro, it requires fast inputs. That doesn't make it bad, it is a different playstyle. It's not reaper where you go reaper and press 4 and let the game play for you.  And thats exactly why a lot of us enjoy Mesmer. Because it requires quick and active inputs by the player. And it just so happens DH and Reaper are my #2 and #3 most played builds. Both of which I've played to a pretty good degree in open world. Mesmer keeps up with them perfectly fine.  

 

Now the biggest input OP needs, which I completely missed my first time going through the read is his build. OP you gotta get off the Vallun build. No wonder it seems terribly underwhelming. You are running dueling/inspiration. Inspiration is a purely defensive trait line with zero damage added to the build. You are losing damage by not running a damage line. So first change, get off inspiration and swap to Domination. This will be a huge difference. 

 

In open world for power I run:

Dom: 1-2-1

Illusions: 1-2-2

Chrono: 2-2-3

 

Mirror images is a must in the utility slot. You can fiddle around with the other slots depending on the situation.

 

Here is the logic behind the build, you have bountiful blade which gives you an additional berserker. You have Shatter Storm which gives an additional F1 shatter and you have Illusionary Reversion on Chrono which gives you another clone when you do a 3 clone shatter. So you are constantly getting three clones up and shattering them very very quickly. Oh and have fun with Continuum Split, you can double your rotation and have absolutely nutty damage. 

 

I run berserkers and eagle runes. Pure damage. 

 

Open world is all about huge burst and moving quickly. Thats exactly what this build will do. 

 

You want more AOE, you run focus in your offhand. Focus 4 is a pull that will pull everything within a 600 radius. HUGE pull. You can wipe 10 enemies in literally seconds. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

7 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Similarly, performing well in pvp with Mesmer doesnt mean Mesmer is strong, especially, when almost ALL of your play time is on the ONE class. If its ALL you play I would hope you kick kitten at it. Having some perspective about classes in general and being able to recognize that Mesmer has some issues on the other hand would demonstrate perspective, rather than just obsession and attitude.

 

Again, you could perform much better on another class with less time invested. Its nice that you are so dedicated to Mesmer, but it doesnt demonstrate Mesmer is better or even strong.

The last time we had a discussion, I stopped it because you were completely dishonest and disingenuous with the things I said. Here you are doing the exact same thing. I haven't in this thread said Mesmer is strong in PvP  and in the thread you quoted I actually called it the weakest class in PvP. NEVER did I say it had no issues.  Both you and Salt Mode keep having these imaginary conversations with me where you both claim I say things that I didn't. 

 

It is actually hilarious, where before you thought I was a fake Mesmer main lying to try to keep the class down. Now you tell me I'm obsessed with Mesmer and have no perspective on other classes. 

 

With all that said, I am again done talking to you. You still can not have a discussion without completely fabricating what has been said. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Moradorin.6217]

11 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

OP clearly needs help with his rotation to make use of his clones. If his clones are appearing after the mobs are dead or if he thinks it takes too much time to spawn clone

This is just another example that strongly implies arent actually trying to address the topic and are dancing around the facts rather than have a discussion. 

Surely, you must know clones despawn after each target is killed and that it takes time to setup the next burst. It would be total fabrication to attempt to state that this isnt the case or that its the OPs missunderstanding causing this to happen. 

 

Then you just repost a build and more stuff that I dont even care to read at this point because in the first paragraph you have demonstrated an inability to honestly address the topic.

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking each other.

Regards.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

On 9/7/2021 at 11:18 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

Surely, you must know clones despawn after each target is killed and that it takes time to setup the next burst. It would be total fabrication to attempt to state that this isnt the case or that its the OPs missunderstanding causing this to happen.

letting clones despawn on target death indicates mismanagement on either clone generation or shatter skills, or both. either way, it is largely a non-issue as the setup time for at least 1 clone - which already covers majority of f1 dmg - is never that long, unless all illusion skills have been exhausted

 

the fact that op thinks that ele (assuming played power) is comparable is a huge sign that they dont have a very strong grasp on mesmer, especially when taking burst damage into account. mesmers sword auto dmg already makes ele weep

[Loules.8601]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:32 AM, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

What meta? There is no open world meta. If you wanna have a conversation about Fractals and Raids I will gladly have that conversation with you outside this thread. There is nothing lacking in terms of killing speed in the open world. 

 

In fact, there is an open-world meta and it is very simple. Take elite mobs from the HoT (like the ones for which you get skill points) - and see if the specialization can more or less defeat them solo. Another plus to score - for PoF mini-bosses.

Edit: It's more or less for exotic equipment, not full ascended

Edited September 8, 2021 by Loules.8601
addition

[Mungrul.9358]

I have great fun and success playing OW with my Condi Scepter/Pistol Mirage. If I remember, I'll post the build here when I'm home.

 

It's got a tool for most scenarios, while doing great damage and having great sustain.

It took me a while to settle on this build, and a lot of experimentation. Before I hit on it, I really couldn't understand how people were staying alive with the popular Metabattle Mirage builds, and was beginning to think Mirage really wasn't that great.

 

Since I made this build, my Mes has overtaken my Warrior as being my main, and positively breezes through content the Warrior has problems with.

[Mungrul.9358]

Here's my build, as promised:

GW2Skills Link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PixAsqdlVwUYQsImJW2X9PdA-zRJYmR3fZkbi2RV59A-e

In-game Code: [&DQcBOxg9OzojDwAAggEAAAcWAADgFQAARhcAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

 

It's a toolbox approach as opposed to a rotation approach. I treat every skill as a situational tool instead of trying to fire off a specific combination of skills in rotation.

 

Dodges and illusion generation keep health up, while Sand Through Glass and Crystal Sands provide extra Mirage Cloak.

 

Sand Through Glass also provides stun break and effectively another dodge.

Crystal Sands acts as an effective group opener, doing AoE damage and applying Confusion to all those hit.

Both proc weakness on nearby enemies when I touch the mirror.

 

I rarely, if ever activate Signet of the Ether, as if I'm playing right and generating illusions, it should be providing health almost constantly.

Same goes for Signet of Illusions. In WvW / PvP, resetting cooldown on Phantasms can be a useful extra surprise, but it's not really needed in open world for this build. And it only has one skill that generates Phantasms anyway.

 

Jaunt is just a great skill all around, providing mobility, applying confusion in an AoE and providing condition removal. It's incredibly flexible, and thanks to the charges, can be used either for just one of those individual functions, or a combination of them.

 

I get a LOT out of dodging with this build; illusion generation, Mirage Cloak, projectile reflection thanks to Evasive Mirror and of course Ether Barrage on my scepter. And that means I also get a lot of stuff out of Mirage Cloak too, such as Sand Shards (AoE boon strip & copy), protection, and regen.

 

Torment is getting pumped out almost constantly with this build too, thanks to auto-attack on scepter (which I'm also using for illusion generation), and shatters.

 

There's a lot more going on with this build, but this should hopefully give you the gist.

 

Oh, and remember to use Confusing Images whenever it's off cooldown. That's as close to being a rotational skill as I get, but it pumps out a serious amount of damage, and if you manage to get multiple enemies between you and its target, also hits all of them in the path.

 

Edit: Yes, the runes and sigils are expensive. Yes, they are absolutely worth it with this build, and contribute a huge amount to damage and sustainability.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Mungrul.9358

[Moradorin.6217]

On 9/8/2021 at 10:54 AM, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

letting clones despawn on target death indicates mismanagement on either clone generation or shatter skills, or both. either way, it is largely a non-issue as the setup time for at least 1 clone - which already covers majority of f1 dmg - is never that long, unless all illusion skills have been exhausted

 

the fact that op thinks that ele (assuming played power) is comparable is a huge sign that they dont have a very strong grasp on mesmer, especially when taking burst damage into account. mesmers sword auto dmg already makes ele weep

It sounds like you are talking about starting to attack the next mob before the first is dead, which is fine. However, I will repeat clones, by design, de-spawn if the target they are focused on dies. Yes if mobs are in close range its possible to wind up on another target by changing targets, but that doesnt keep the clones on the first target from despawning. That is, unless you are talking about using certain utilities or axe 2 on mirage to refocus the clones to a new target to prevent the despawn. None of that really changes what I said. Meaning, clonse do, in fact, always despawn when the target they are attacking dies.

I think what you are trying to say is its possible to chain skills to maintain 1st clone which helps spawn additional clones via dodge, disceptions, or utilities. Well sure, but that again makes assumptions about distance, number of targets and how fast the targets can be killed (health, interupts environmental factors can slow/speed).

 

The Point I was making still stands, in that, the OP is talking about having trouble with Mesmer in comparison to other classes in reguards to kill rate. I again point to various things like the current fractal meta and raid meta and how specs like chrono are known to be harder to play and require more knowledge about encounters (phases, timing, etc) than most others to perform well. I mentioned that people would usually prefer NOT to have chrono DPS in fractal meta groups at present unless they know the chrono and know that person can perform (which is IMO why its not meta and why it often underperforms). Im not saying the class cannot perform. Im saying its allot more work and takes more skill compared to many others that are meta right now. I pointed to that to support the premis that Mesmer is not as good at other classes to clearing OW and stuff. I mean I can run around on necro, engi, war, rev, thief, guard and pretty much hit 1 skill or 1 utility and kill OW trash, meaning on other classes I can just target that vet and hit 2 or 4 and BAM its kittening dead and arc says things like 20k, 30k, or even 50k+ dps in for 1.5 sec.  as the mob(s) melt and I can do this on mulitple classes but mesmer takes ramping up clones, timing target swaps, etc, etc. Its possible on mesmer but its allot more work and its often allot clunkier and can be downright awkward, in comparison.

 

So I will sand by what I said.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

1 hour ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

It sounds like you are talking about starting to attack the next mob before the first is dead, which is fine. However, I will repeat clones, by design, de-spawn if the target they are focused on dies. Yes if mobs are in close range its possible to wind up on another target by changing targets, but that doesnt keep the clones on the first target from despawning. That is, unless you are talking about using certain utilities or axe 2 on mirage to refocus the clones to a new target to prevent the despawn. None of that really changes what I said. Meaning, clonse do, in fact, always despawn when the target they are attacking dies.

I think what you are trying to say is its possible to chain skills to maintain 1st clone which helps spawn additional clones via dodge, disceptions, or utilities. Well sure, but that again makes assumptions about distance, number of targets and how fast the targets can be killed (health, interupts environmental factors can slow/speed).

 

no, the ‘issue’ is about stacking more clones than what is necessary

f1 gives you multiple options:

instant ‘dry’ shatter for 36% max dmg

fast 1 clone shatter for 72% max dmg

midline 2 clone shatter for 86% max dmg

or slow 3 clone shatter for 100% max dmg

 

knowing this, in how many cases is stacking max clones on trash mobs worthwhile? and how much does it really matter if clones despawned or not (and why did you let them despawn)?

 

1 hour ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

The Point I was making still stands, in that, the OP is talking about having trouble with Mesmer in comparison to other classes in reguards to kill rate. I again point to various things like the current fractal meta and raid meta and how specs like chrono are known to be harder to play and require more knowledge about encounters (phases, timing, etc) than most others to perform well. I mentioned that people would usually prefer NOT to have chrono DPS in fractal meta groups at present unless they know the chrono and know that person can perform (which is IMO why its not meta and why it often underperforms). Im not saying the class cannot perform. Im saying its allot more work and takes more skill compared to many others that are meta right now. I pointed to that to support the premis that Mesmer is not as good at other classes to clearing OW and stuff. I mean I can run around on necro, engi, war, rev, thief, guard and pretty much hit 1 skill or 1 utility and kill OW trash, meaning on other classes I can just target that vet and hit 2 or 4 and BAM its kittening dead and arc says things like 20k, 30k, or even 50k+ dps in for 1.5 sec.  as the mob(s) melt and I can do this on mulitple classes but mesmer takes ramping up clones, timing target swaps, etc, etc. Its possible on mesmer but its allot more work and its often allot clunkier and can be downright awkward, in comparison.

 

So I will sand by what I said.

again no, raid and fractal meta does not relate to open world usage, especially when meta is only concerned about chrono and more specifically, its csplit opener (which youd never use on open world mobs). mesmer does not struggle with kill times in open world like you describe, which currently sounds more of a build/usage issue on your end, rather an actual mesmer problem (unless playing condi, but that would be a given fact)

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Noodle Ant.1605
math is hard

[Moradorin.6217]

44 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

 

no, the ‘issue’ is about stacking more clones than what is necessary

f1 gives you multiple options:

instant ‘dry’ shatter for 36% max dmg

fast 1 clone shatter for 72% max dmg

midline 2 clone shatter for 86% max dmg

or slow 3 clone shatter for 100% max dmg

 

knowing this, in how many cases is stacking max clones on trash mobs worthwhile? and how much does it really matter if clones despawned or not (and why did you let them despawn)?

 

again no, raid and fractal meta does not relate to open world usage, especially when meta is only concerned about chrono and more specifically, its csplit opener (which youd never use on open world mobs). mesmer does not struggle with kill times in open world like you describe, which currently sounds more of a build/usage issue on your end, rather an actual mesmer problem (unless playing condi, but that would be a given fact)

 

First, at no point am I even attempting to explain my own play experience, at present, I wouldnt opt to use a Mesmer for OW, Fractals, or anything else outside Escort, TL, Math and a little occasional WvW. I feel other classes are much stronger in general and I enjoy swaping between classes to either stay fresh or improve my skills with other classes. Once, long ago I did almost everything on Mesmer. That has not been the case for years.

 

Second, the point of talking about the meta is to compare Mesmer to other classes without attempting to use my personal testimonials or opinions as supporting evidence. In other words, rather than just state my own view and use it to support an argument I am referencing accepted views (meta, and [generally accepted facts referenced from sites like lucky-noobs about playing chrono) to make a comparison of Mesmer's ability to do a variety of things. I would say that the Fractals and raid meta is a good way to compare class performance in pve. Raids and Fractals arent OW, but fractals similarly can have a variety of mobs and groups and even side mechanics. I would say the healthbar difference is the most significant, which just means Mesmer is a bit more workable in OW. You obviously view OW as being inherantly differnt PvE. I just have a different opinion on that.

Again when comparing Mesmer to other classes for pve I still think referencing things like the fractal meta is the best way to make the comparison because it avoids using ones own opinion. Rather it gives us a way to reference a consensus of experts, instead. I again stand by what I said and you are welcome to disagree.

 

Also just to point out I was never trying to say Mesmer doesnt work even in OW or anything like that here is one of my first responses to this thread.  So I feel like maybe you are taking my point out of context, somewhat.

On 8/27/2021 at 10:07 AM, Moradorin.6217 said:

If you LOVE your class than ANY class is just fine especially in OW, but I dont feel that is the OP's question

Edited September 11, 2021 by Moradorin.6217
added quote

[Noodle Ant.1605]

13 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

First, at no point am I even attempting to explain my own play experience, at present, I wouldnt opt to use a Mesmer for OW, Fractals, or anything else outside Escort, TL, Math and a little occasional WvW. I feel other classes are much stronger in general and I enjoy swaping between classes to either stay fresh or improve my skills with other classes. Once, long ago I did almost everything on Mesmer. That has not been the case for years.

 

Second, the point of talking about the meta is to compare Mesmer to other classes without attempting to use my personal testimonials or opinions as supporting evidence. In other words, rather than just state my own view and use it to support an argument I am referencing accepted views (meta, and [generally accepted facts referenced from sites like lucky-noobs about playing chrono) to make a comparison of Mesmer's ability to do a variety of things. I would say that the Fractals and raid meta is a good way to compare class performance in pve. Raids and Fractals arent OW, but fractals similarly can have a variety of mobs and groups and even side mechanics. I would say the healthbar difference is the most significant, which just means Mesmer is a bit more workable in OW. You obviously view OW as being inherantly differnt PvE. I just have a different opinion on that.

Again when comparing Mesmer to other classes for pve I still think referencing things like the fractal meta is the best way to make the comparison because it avoids using ones own opinion. Rather it gives us a way to reference a consensus of experts, instead. I again stand by what I said and you are welcome to disagree.

 

Also just to point out I was never trying to say Mesmer doesnt work even in OW or anything like that here is one of my first responses to this thread.  So I feel like maybe you are taking my point out of context, somewhat.

 

you say i take your point out of context, but i was only meant to comment on how you mentioned that it takes time for mesmer to setup its burst, which it doesnt really in an open world sense, and i gave you reasons why it doesnt

 

there is no need to bring raid and fractal metas into discussion as they poorly represent an open world environment. fractals having trash mobs have no relation to open world usage, as fractal guides are far more focused on killing bosses rather than series of trash mobs (skipping them instead if possible)

 

again, we need to remind ourselves that OP set the bar really low by mentioning ele - whose power builds probably struggle the most in open world. this makes it rather clear that it is a familiarity issue, rather than a general class issue