The Mist Realms

[genjonah.1253]

So, my hope beyond EoD (or even started there, who knows), deals with the now gaping whole in lore- where did the human gods go? In GW1, it was stated that the power can’t just go away. I know that Balthazar was largely absorbed by Kralk and Aurene, but the rest of them?
 

What happens to their realms? Do new people take over? I know Dhuum took his shot, what about Menzies? We know that Grenth, Balthazar, and Kormir/Abaddon at the very least had a host of beings in their realms, what happened to them? (I know we got SOME idea of what happened to the Underworld patrons, but what about the rest of them?)

 

Will there be a new pantheon?

With the lore bit added to the legendary armory concerning Vision, will the others be pissed at Balthazar’s death? 
 

Will they explore the thread at the end of LWS3, that we may have not been told the whole story about Abaddon, that he may have in fact been martyred by the others to cover up something else?

 

what other open threads would others like to see addressed?

[draxynnic.3719]

I don't really hold much stock in the 'Abaddon was innocent' theory. At best, you could argue that he had a good reason for wanting to keep Tyria's magic at a higher level, but he and his followers were still the ones that declared war on the rest of the pantheon. I think the Priest of Abaddon was just a nod to player theories at the time (and, naturally, anyone publicly presenting as an Abaddon follower in GW2 is going to have developed some justification).

 

We've got hints that the gods might be looking for other worlds. It could be interesting to see if Balthazar was replaced, or whether the other gods might have redistributed his responsibilities somewhat. Seeing and stabilising the realms of Dwayna and Lyssa could also be interesting - I suspect we didn't see the goddess realms in GW1 because they kept a cleaner house back then, but if what happened to Kormir's library was any indication, there could be stuff to do and fight in those realms now.

 

One thing of particular interest is that in the art book, the Utopia material was discussed as if the lore there was still canon. And said lore implied that the campaign might have delved deep into the history of the pantheon, the previous generation of the gods, and the threats that they faced. Could be interesting to see those plot threads picked up again.

[Danikat.8537]

Unless I've missed something all they did was leave Tyria. They're still alive and out in the Mists, presumably in their various domains (or moving between them and other areas of the Mists) so nothing needs to happen to their power or their domains.

 

It's possible more humans will stop worshipping them if the fact that they deliberately left Tyria when the dragons awoke becomes public knowledge, but as far as I know the only people who know that for sure are Dragon's Watch and they don't seem to be in a rush to tell everyone.

 

It's also possible the gods will come back after the dragon threat is ended. Which could go either way; maybe the humans will welcome them back and things will return to something like the situation in GW1, or maybe the humans will be indifferent to the return of the gods having gotten along without them for so long. I'm not sure how the gods will react to that. Either way it could make for some interesting stories, but whether it will happen depends on what sort of stories Anet want's to tell.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

The Gods are still there and the only stated reason we have for them leaving is to find and prepare a new world as a back-up just in case Tyria goes poof. Which is perfectly reasonable and in line with their roles as shepherds and not guardians.

 

We can infer further reasons - for example, the first thing Kralkatorrik did when he was in trouble was jump into the Mists - Specifically the Gods realms, and it's hinted by Aurene and the Commander that he was looking for something. That something can only be the Gods. To eat. So the Gods leaving their realms as well as Tyria makes perfect sense if they suspected an Elder Dragon could gain access. They have been avoiding conflict with the Elder Dragons for a very good reason, that reason being conflict with them destroys the world, full stop, regardless of the outcome. (We also eventually figured out that Kralkatorrik was somewhat suicidal, so seeking out the Gods for a showdown also fits in there)

 

I don't think humans will stop worshipping them. They didn't after Abaddon was revealed in all his glory. They didn't whilst Dhuum was an actively malicious God. In fact, I think it would be a massive disservice to humanity to take the Gods away from them. The whole "Religion is bad" nonsense in a Fantasy setting is old hat and I want ArenaNet to avoid that. The ultimate catharsis for the human narrative is that their faith wasn't misplaced, anything else just seems like an unnecessary, spiteful kick in the teeth.

 

Furthermore to that. It really depends what's revealed? What should be revealed is all of it: That the Gods had already dealt with Balthazar and then he was freed by a charr trying to get a human artifact back because he thought it was his. That's not exactly very flattering for the charr, is it? And shows the human Gods' work to protect people be ruined by a greedy catman.

 

As for them returning when Tyria is stabalised and the Elder Dragons dealt with, that seems totally reasonable and it shouldn't be held against them. They withdrew/departed to avoid conflict with the Elder Dragons due to the apocalyptic collateral damage such a conflict would cause - and even if that wasn't their intention, that's still the ultimate factor to consider - Them leaving protected Tyria. Full stop. I don't think anyone sane can really hold that against them.

Edited September 8, 2021 by ThatOddOne.4387

[genjonah.1253]

11 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't really hold much stock in the 'Abaddon was innocent' theory. At best, you could argue that he had a good reason for wanting to keep Tyria's magic at a higher level, but he and his followers were still the ones that declared war on the rest of the pantheon. I think the Priest of Abaddon was just a nod to player theories at the time (and, naturally, anyone publicly presenting as an Abaddon follower in GW2 is going to have developed some justification).

 

We've got hints that the gods might be looking for other worlds. It could be interesting to see if Balthazar was replaced, or whether the other gods might have redistributed his responsibilities somewhat. Seeing and stabilising the realms of Dwayna and Lyssa could also be interesting - I suspect we didn't see the goddess realms in GW1 because they kept a cleaner house back then, but if what happened to Kormir's library was any indication, there could be stuff to do and fight in those realms now.

 

One thing of particular interest is that in the art book, the Utopia material was discussed as if the lore there was still canon. And said lore implied that the campaign might have delved deep into the history of the pantheon, the previous generation of the gods, and the threats that they faced. Could be interesting to see those plot threads picked up again.

It doesn’t even have to be ‘Abaddon was innocent’, though, it could run an entire spectrum of ‘we weren’t told the whole story of Abaddon and his actions’

 

while I also do NOT want Anet to go the route of ‘religion is all bad!’ I think it would be interesting to have a bunch of different fallout from the departure of the gods. Some be pissed. Some stick with belief. Some stick to reverence. Have much more questioning going on, since we’ve now had at least three displaced gods (hinted at at least four), at least three been considered subjectively evil even by humans, and more. 
 

with the dragon threat gone (presumably with the death of the deep sea dragon at the end of… well… End of Dragons 😛 ), they would have free reign to return, but I’d love to see them return to a world that has largely (especially considering the rise of the other races) moved past them

[Balor.8432]

11 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't really hold much stock in the 'Abaddon was innocent' theory. At best, you could argue that he had a good reason for wanting to keep Tyria's magic at a higher level, but he and his followers were still the ones that declared war on the rest of the pantheon. I think the Priest of Abaddon was just a nod to player theories at the time (and, naturally, anyone publicly presenting as an Abaddon follower in GW2 is going to have developed some justification).

 

We've got hints that the gods might be looking for other worlds. It could be interesting to see if Balthazar was replaced, or whether the other gods might have redistributed his responsibilities somewhat. Seeing and stabilising the realms of Dwayna and Lyssa could also be interesting - I suspect we didn't see the goddess realms in GW1 because they kept a cleaner house back then, but if what happened to Kormir's library was any indication, there could be stuff to do and fight in those realms now.

 

One thing of particular interest is that in the art book, the Utopia material was discussed as if the lore there was still canon. And said lore implied that the campaign might have delved deep into the history of the pantheon, the previous generation of the gods, and the threats that they faced. Could be interesting to see those plot threads picked up again.

In path of fire Kormir stated the 6 gods  left Tyria and she was the last after Balthazar was chained, so its hinted at he was replaced.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:51 PM, genjonah.1253 said:

So, my hope beyond EoD (or even started there, who knows), deals with the now gaping whole in lore- where did the human gods go? In GW1, it was stated that the power can’t just go away. I know that Balthazar was largely absorbed by Kralk and Aurene, but the rest of them?
 

What happens to their realms? Do new people take over? I know Dhuum took his shot, what about Menzies? We know that Grenth, Balthazar, and Kormir/Abaddon at the very least had a host of beings in their realms, what happened to them? (I know we got SOME idea of what happened to the Underworld patrons, but what about the rest of them?)

 

Will there be a new pantheon?

With the lore bit added to the legendary armory concerning Vision, will the others be pissed at Balthazar’s death? 
 

Will they explore the thread at the end of LWS3, that we may have not been told the whole story about Abaddon, that he may have in fact been martyred by the others to cover up something else?

 

what other open threads would others like to see addressed?

1- The power of the Human Gods didn't come from Tyria and doesn't need to return to it. They came to Tyria with their own magic and the magic they gave to Humans came from Tyria/the Elder Dragons/the Bloodstones thus is part of the cycle, but as far as we know they never needed it themselves except for Balthazar after he was stripped of his power.

2- As I stated, Balthazar had no power, his power was that of a Bloodstone, Jormag and Primordus. Though it does seem to've changed somewhat in his system, as Kralkatorrik was able to absorb some of his abilities. I imagine this is very similar to how the Elder Dragons and various species like Chak and Skelk filter magic, too.

3- The God Realms were just small parts of the Mists that the Gods took over in order to give their followers an afterlife, amoung other reasons. This is because when people die normally they just go to some random part of the Mists, which is literally the size of the entire universe, and having powerful beings like Gods or Glint guide souls to specific locations allows some continued existence. As we see when the Commander dies and goes to the Domain of the Lost, they extended this even to other races than Humans, though likely only in certain cases. We know that Sylvari normally return to the Dream instead, which could be a Mist realm itself but is neither confirmed nor denied.

4- The Realms are now gone, Kralkatorrik pretty much consumed everything in them and its established after Path of Fire that demons were invading the Mist realms and they were falling apart anyway without the Gods' presence. This happens to Kormir's Library as well as the Domain of the Lost which is ironically the entire reason the Commander was able to revive, by absorbing the energy of such a creature that didn't belong there.

5- Menzies likely replaced Balthazar as his Eternals were made into the Forged. This means that his realm was completely at the mercy of Menzies and his Shadows  and he'd be the most likely to succeed Balthazar. This seems to be why LS4.6 was called War Eternal however the devs obviously didn't have time or resources to flesh out plot. Instead it just seems to've been replaced with the title referring to Aurene being immortal.

6- Though not explicitly stated, its also suggested that the Commander and Aurene both suceed Balthazar in Tyria, as being responsible for his defeat and Aurene partially absorbing his power. This wasn't Divine magic so obviously the Commander doesn't become the new God of War, however certain characters do refer to them as such including Zafirah.

7- The devs have directly stated the Human Gods plotline isn't finished.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

 

2- As I stated, Balthazar had no power, his power was that of a Bloodstone, Jormag and Primordus. Though it does seem to've changed somewhat in his system, as Kralkatorrik was able to absorb some of his abilities. I imagine this is very similar to how the Elder Dragons and various species like Chak and Skelk filter magic, too.

He didn't lose all his power. He still had the ability to reignite Sohothin and to open a portal. I suspect he was around the level Grenth was before taking on Dhuum.

 

He was certainly greatly reduced, though, and I suspect his motivation for hiding until he got enough power back is that he knew which threshold he had to reach to stop the other gods from going "you're weak enough that we can come in, grab you, and go again before the dragons notice". 

3 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

4- The Realms are now gone, Kralkatorrik pretty much consumed everything in them and its established after Path of Fire that demons were invading the Mist realms and they were falling apart anyway without the Gods' presence. This happens to Kormir's Library as well as the Domain of the Lost which is ironically the entire reason the Commander was able to revive, by absorbing the energy of such a creature that didn't belong there.

I don't think Kralkatorrik necessarily destroyed the entirety of the Realms. It'd pretty much invalidate the Dhuum raid, for instance, if Kralkatorrik had destroyed the entire Underworld. 

3 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

5- Menzies likely replaced Balthazar as his Eternals were made into the Forged. This means that his realm was completely at the mercy of Menzies and his Shadows  and he'd be the most likely to succeed Balthazar. This seems to be why LS4.6 was called War Eternal however the devs obviously didn't have time or resources to flesh out plot. Instead it just seems to've been replaced with the title referring to Aurene being immortal.

I'm sceptical about this, although I guess it's not impossible. Would the other gods accept Menzies? Is Menzies even still alive? All we really know for sure is that there was still some Shadow Army in the portion of the Fissure of Woe that came crashing down to Tyria.

3 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

6- Though not explicitly stated, its also suggested that the Commander and Aurene both suceed Balthazar in Tyria, as being responsible for his defeat and Aurene partially absorbing his power. This wasn't Divine magic so obviously the Commander doesn't become the new God of War, however certain characters do refer to them as such including Zafirah.

Seems to be Aurene specifically, although that means the Commander is still linked. Zafirah doesn't start referring to feeling Balthazar's presence until she encounters Aurene (or at least Aurene's nest - I don't think Aurene was still there at the time).

[ThatOddOne.4387]

10 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

4- The Realms are now gone, Kralkatorrik pretty much consumed everything in them and its established after Path of Fire that demons were invading the Mist realms and they were falling apart anyway without the Gods' presence. This happens to Kormir's Library as well as the Domain of the Lost which is ironically the entire reason the Commander was able to revive, by absorbing the energy of such a creature that didn't belong there.

 

The realms aren't gone, no. Kormir's was shown as stabilized when we visited it again after the demon invasion, and Kralkatorrik specifically flew through several of them and only brought small chunks of them to Tyria.

Edited September 9, 2021 by ThatOddOne.4387

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

20 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

He didn't lose all his power. He still had the ability to reignite Sohothin and to open a portal. I suspect he was around the level Grenth was before taking on Dhuum.

 

He was certainly greatly reduced, though, and I suspect his motivation for hiding until he got enough power back is that he knew which threshold he had to reach to stop the other gods from going "you're weak enough that we can come in, grab you, and go again before the dragons notice". 

I don't think Kralkatorrik necessarily destroyed the entirety of the Realms. It'd pretty much invalidate the Dhuum raid, for instance, if Kralkatorrik had destroyed the entire Underworld. 

I'm sceptical about this, although I guess it's not impossible. Would the other gods accept Menzies? Is Menzies even still alive? All we really know for sure is that there was still some Shadow Army in the portion of the Fissure of Woe that came crashing down to Tyria.

Seems to be Aurene specifically, although that means the Commander is still linked. Zafirah doesn't start referring to feeling Balthazar's presence until she encounters Aurene (or at least Aurene's nest - I don't think Aurene was still there at the time).

Zafirah does say directly to the Commander "Now go show us a God of War" in War Eternal, though, after forging the true Dragonsblood Spear, though this could just be referring to finishing Balthazar's task.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

[This message is unwelcomed and was removed.]

Edited September 30, 2021 by Dean Calaway.9718

[DaZeeHero.5210]

I want Tyria to be visited/invaded by hyper advanced humans from the original human homeworld who have long since outgrown the need for gods and have nearly become that themselves.

 

Sick of the idiots hating on humans. I appreciate all the races of Tyria and none is inherently better than the next.

 

FYI humans in fiction are always the ones you should NEVER EVER underestimate. Tyrian humans are no exception. yeah this applies to every race but its an everpresent trope in all fiction that humans you really don't want to.

 

The minute humans get over not being looked after by gods, and get off their posterior sections they can quickly eclipse the other races in power, in at least a few ways. the good news is now that power will be used to benefit all since we are all a big happy tyria family.

Edited September 19, 2021 by DaZeeHero.5210