Mesmer (Virtuoso): Is There Any Chance For Condi Options To Be Added?

[paininverter.2930]

I understand the Virtuoso is meant to be a power spec, but given that other specs sometimes offer going power or condi, I thought I'd ask ... is there any chance of adding traits that allow for a condi focused build?

 

I'm definitely a hardcore condi player, and love the Virtuoso's visual effects, so I figured I'd throw it out there that maybe the devs could work something in somehow for us condi players?

 

I see some opportunities for certain conditions to be added to certain skills, even if just Torment, that wouldn't necessarily make the current skill's abilities OP if balanced.

 

Just an idea. Cheers!

[OriOri.8724]

Please no. Virtuoso's design needs more focus, not less of it. It's a power focused spec, and I'd rather its traits reflect that over getting some traits for power and some traits for condi.

 

Mesmer already has builds that focus on condi, I don't see the point of another one

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

The bottom row traitline is all condi.

[Leonidrex.5649]

11 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

The bottom row traitline is all condi.

I would say its a placeholder, they didnt know what to add so they shoved in random bleed with a spec that has 0 conditions
reminds me of good old CI

[paininverter.2930]

1 hour ago, OriOri.8724 said:

Please no. Virtuoso's design needs more focus, not less of it. It's a power focused spec, and I'd rather its traits reflect that over getting some traits for power and some traits for condi.

 

Mesmer already has builds that focus on condi, I don't see the point of another one

People need to relax. I didn't say to refocus the spec, just to add the options.

 

Yes, Mes already has heavy condi specs, but the "point" is because the playstyle and the visuals are excellent, and there's nothing wrong with having options in a game to allow for a variety of playstyles.

 

The bottom trait line and what condi there is, at this point, is useless. Nothing wrong with the devs attempting to implement multiple options, if possible, if that's what someone particularly enjoys.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

58 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I would say its a placeholder, they didnt know what to add so they shoved in random bleed with a spec that has 0 conditions
reminds me of good old CI

The whole kitten seems like a placeholder.

[OriOri.8724]

On 9/24/2021 at 4:07 PM, Xathagorra.3948 said:

People need to relax. I didn't say to refocus the spec, just to add the options.

 

Yes, Mes already has heavy condi specs, but the "point" is because the playstyle and the visuals are excellent, and there's nothing wrong with having options in a game to allow for a variety of playstyles.

 

The bottom trait line and what condi there is, at this point, is useless. Nothing wrong with the devs attempting to implement multiple options, if possible, if that's what someone particularly enjoys.

Adding new condi specs is literally refocusing the spec.

 

You're right, there is nothing wrong with having options for a variety of playstyles. But you're ignoring the fact that you already have options for condi builds. Not every spec needs a condi build. The different elite specs are the multiple different build options you get. Not all of them need both condi and power builds

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

With how terrible it is I would rather them focus on one aspect of the kit.

[necromaniac.7629]

a friend of mine tested condi virtuoso, they got 28k dps, but yeah the  weapon needs some base bleeding, "blade" attacks needs to be on more weapons, not just dagger and greatsword, but on the other hand ,compared to what we already have, condi mirage will probably overshow it in every way even if it gets buffed, and the fact that it benefits fully from sharper images, the 25% bleed dmg buff won't be enough. 

[necromaniac.7629]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:36 AM, OriOri.8724 said:

Adding new condi specs is literally refocusing the spec.

 

You're right, there is nothing wrong with having options for a variety of playstyles. But you're ignoring the fact that you already have options for condi builds. Not every spec needs a condi build. The different elite specs are the multiple different build options you get. Not all of them need both condi and power builds

well anet seems to be trying make some of these specs have power and condi builds, but a bleed virtuoso build just doesnt rly make sense with how some of the core traits are

[necromaniac.7629]

On 9/24/2021 at 1:54 PM, OriOri.8724 said:

Please no. Virtuoso's design needs more focus, not less of it. It's a power focused spec, and I'd rather its traits reflect that over getting some traits for power and some traits for condi.

 

Mesmer already has builds that focus on condi, I don't see the point of another one

i mean chrono did both very well

[draxynnic.3719]

One of the valid criticisms is that Virtuoso has a traitline dedicated to conditions, but it's token at best. That short-term bleed on crit is the sort of thing that really needs to be backed up by other condi application to get anywhere, but every blade skill except F2 is power. It also mandates precision, which might work in PvE with a Viper/Sinister/Grieving mix, but not in PvP.

 

And if you switch to a weapon like scepter or staff for their innate conditions, you've got a weaker weapon set because you don't have the extra condition application from clones.

 

Either the bottom line needs to be buffed significantly, or just embrace it as a power spec and rework it into power options.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

When we look at other elite specs like Willbender (more PvP oriented) or Bladesworn (more PvE oriented), both of which has no "survival/block", "power" or "condi" that virtuoso has. They felt much more specialised (whether good or bad) than their existing build.

Honestly a lot of traits in Virtuoso is already a half copy of existing core or mirage traits: 

1. Sharpening sorrow is redundant outside of small expertise rise, Dueling trait already give perma fury without relying on 25s CD skill.

2. Bleed on blades overlapping bleed on illusion crit in Dueling, in a minor dueling trait!

3. Redundant vulnerability stacks that base domination mesmer already have high access to with 2 minor traits and can near capped on 25 when bursting/interrupting with F3

I felt like if we're back in Cantha, they might as well bring back Hex for mesmer or similar concept with "shutdown" or "lockdown" mechanics, something they've taken out of GW2 mesmer over the years. They're already bold enough to have major new mechanics changes, why not introduce things like Calculated Risks, Mistrust or Frustration. Or have a unique condition tied to blades in 3rd line that causes foes deal damage to allies/self whenever grant boon etc, given GW2 is a much more boon heavy game nowadays.

Edited September 29, 2021 by NICENIKESHOE.7128

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

9 hours ago, NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

I felt like if we're back in Cantha, they might as well bring back Hex for mesmer or similar concept with "shutdown" or "lockdown" mechanics, something they've taken out of GW2 mesmer over the years. They're already bold enough to have major new mechanics changes, why not introduce things like Calculated Risks, Mistrust or Frustration. Or have a unique condition tied to blades in 3rd line that causes foes deal damage to allies/self whenever grant boon etc, given GW2 is a much more boon heavy game nowadays.

This would be great, perhaps something akin to fragility but with boons like deals damage every time you grant a boon and when you lose a boon. That way you'll have some synergy with boon removal.

[Roda.7468]

Condi virtuoso had a really fast and fun playstyle, though it was a little jank, limited, and underwhelming in the dps department compared to the power build. (tho my biggest problem with condi builds on mesmer are the two signets that MUST take up space on your utility bar 🤢)

[Simonoly.4352]

If you just take the the bottom traits in the Virt spec and combine with duelling and illusions specs whilst wielding Sc/p + Staff, you can pull off a relatively decent ranged condi DPS build stacking up bleeds and torment with a dash of confusion. I tried that in the beta and it was quite nice.

I think what we really need on Virtuoso at release is more ways to delay melee attackers. Dagger #3 is crying out for some cripple in particular, but it could be cool to get some extra effects on the bladesongs, though Master of Fragmentation will aid with that somewhat.

Also more actual singing and dancing please!

Edited September 29, 2021 by Simonoly.4352

[necromaniac.7629]

4 hours ago, Roda.7468 said:

Condi virtuoso had a really fast and fun playstyle, though it was a little jank, limited, and underwhelming in the dps department compared to the power build. (tho my biggest problem with condi builds on mesmer are the two signets that MUST take up space on your utility bar 🤢)

that also because there aren't any other damage utility to run lol

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, Simonoly.4352 said:

If you just take the the bottom traits in the Virt spec and combine with duelling and illusions specs whilst wielding Sc/p + Staff, you can pull off a relatively decent ranged condi DPS build stacking up bleeds and torment with a dash of confusion. I tried that in the beta and it was quite nice.

I think what we really need on Virtuoso at release is more ways to delay melee attackers. Dagger #3 is crying out for some cripple in particular, but it could be cool to get some extra effects on the bladesongs, though Master of Fragmentation will aid with that somewhat.

Also more actual singing and dancing please!

Need to compare with what you'd get running conditions on a conventional mesmer. Conditions from three clones on a conventional mesmer are roughly equivalent to having another mesmer autoattacking with the same weapon (although the strike damage is a lot lower) - I don't think the bottom line of Virtuoso in its current state compensates for this.

[Tseison.4659]

So I did give a Virtuoso Condition build with Rune of the Krait I spin, Vipers and appropriate signet utilities as well. In WvW it was fun in the sense for unsuspecting players HOWEVER, with the amount of healing and condi cleanses out there, the option for condi virtuoso is a hard no for me. Bleeding isn't a strong condition on it's own regardless of Jagged Mind, Bloodsong and Sharper Images. If Anet was smart and wanted to give this spec a Pwr Or Condi hybrid feel, then they would've made the bottom row of traits include Torment, and Confusion (and Weakness?).

Condi Virtuoso felt "okay" in PvE but obviously any build will do well in that mode, but I would never recommend using it in PvP/WvW and would suggest players to run Mirage as they will always be a better choice in terms of a condition build.

The Virtuoso trait line definitely needs tweaking. Some traits need to be combined with one another and the bottom line needs to be reworked to be more pwr/cc/boon removal focus, in my opinion. The reality is that condi Virtuoso isn't viable, point blank period. Even if you used Scepter/Pistol & Staff, that won't be enough condi pressure when compared to what the Mirage can do AND you'll have clones/illusions up to additionally add more condi pressure.

It's obvious the Virtuoso is meant to be Pwr focused and now if you look at our trait line from face value, we literally only get two rows of traits that are viable (atleast to me) since the bottom row is condi/expertise focused and it baffles me to this day as to why as that is a big waste.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Tseison.4659