Anyone played a Dire Condi Berzerker or a Celestial Warrior?

[Logos.3042]

I dont have these gear sets yet, but an wondering if anyone has gone and made a more defensive build of Condi Berzerker or a Celestial Warrior.  I would love to hear any feedback you have before I invest in these sets.  This is for open world, but wvw would be also helpful to hear about.  

 

Thanks!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

41 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

I dont have these gear sets yet, but an wondering if anyone has gone and made a more defensive build of Condi Berzerker or a Celestial Warrior.  I would love to hear any feedback you have before I invest in these sets.  This is for open world, but wvw would be also helpful to hear about.  

 

Thanks!

I play a cele warrior and have fought a tanky Berserker before that was tough as nails to fight, though I think that guy was running Rapid stats and not Dire considering his crit rate.

If you listen to certain youtubers they will tell you that Cele Warrior is 'OP' but it isn't. Warrior has high base states and can shore up where Cele lacks from their traitlines for an all around decent build that has high-ish defense and okay offense. That is the kicker, the offense is only 'okay'. You'll regularly find that if you had just enough more damage you'd win or win more quickly.

If the hard CC nerf ever gets reverted to any degree then Cele warrior would become a more powerful variant though.

What Cele gives you is enough staying power to out last an opponent while also having just enough damage to take out anything except a full tank/fellow celestial.
 

 

[Logos.3042]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I play a cele warrior and have fought a tanky Berserker before that was tough as nails to fight, though I think that guy was running Rapid stats and not Dire considering his crit rate.

If you listen to certain youtubers they will tell you that Cele Warrior is 'OP' but it isn't. Warrior has high base states and can shore up where Cele lacks from their traitlines for an all around decent build that has high-ish defense and okay offense. That is the kicker, the offense is only 'okay'. You'll regularly find that if you had just enough more damage you'd win or win more quickly.

If the hard CC nerf ever gets reverted to any degree then Cele warrior would become a more powerful variant though.

What Cele gives you is enough staying power to out last an opponent while also having just enough damage to take out anything except a full tank/fellow celestial.
 

 

Helpful reply, thanks!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Logos.3042 said:

Helpful reply, thanks!

If you want some suggestions/tips feel free to ask.

FWIW, even on Power Berserker I've had better success in this meta playing it defensively. By that I mean I'll eat someone's big CC on purpose (not like it does any damage now anyway) and break the stun with Headbutt, counter CC them, then break the stun again with Savage Instinct. I use my primal Bursts to kill them then.

So its odd. I get the most mileage out of Berserker by ending the fight with Berserk Mode rather than trying to get into asap, and trying to DPS someone then.

[Logos.3042]

This is my current theory crafted build, I just havent made all of the gear for it yet.  This is the Dire Berserker with a bit of vipers to increase crit and expertise:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAw+NlJwYYUsFmJWaX9tUA-zRZYXB5xFmZ0hCLjCqgESB5nFdf2A-e

 

I like the logic of waiting for Berzerker to finish them.  

Honestly, I've not played Berzerker in a long time because of the lack of finishers after exiting Berzerker. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Is this for WvW?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

20 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Is this for WvW?

looks pretty solid for wvw tbh. It is a gamble to not go for SI in Zerker but the range helps there with positioning tbh. If anything I'd simply suggest, cleansing/energy sigil and doom/torment for cover condis if they got the money.

 

Don't you think extra duration is wasted in wvw?

 

[Logos.3042]

Yeah, WvW but more of a focus on DPS so I can run plenty of open world on it.  I already have 2 stunbreaks with Headbutt and Outrage, and I personally like disconnecting Stunbreak from F1... Would rather use it as a pressure button.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Logos.3042

[Logos.3042]

20 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

looks pretty solid for wvw tbh. It is a gamble to not go for SI in Zerker but the range helps there with positioning tbh. If anything I'd simply suggest, cleansing/energy sigil and doom/torment for cover condis if they got the money.

 

Don't you think extra duration is wasted in wvw?

 

Good idea on cleansing.  I had been considering Giving but dont think I have enough crit to get as much use out of it...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

35 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

looks pretty solid for wvw tbh. It is a gamble to not go for SI in Zerker but the range helps there with positioning tbh. If anything I'd simply suggest, cleansing/energy sigil and doom/torment for cover condis if they got the money.

 

Don't you think extra duration is wasted in wvw?

 

I was asking to be sure before providing feedback.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Go for savage instinct in WvW, Smash Brawler in PvE. Take the sigils that GM suggested.

 

If you're interested in cele Berserker, then take Tempest runes, and swap out Arms for Defense: mid/mid/bot. Take SI, and another stun break. Enjoy the +2k healing per stun break while having pretty great stats.

[nativity.3057]

The problems with Celestial Warrior are the weapons and access to Might and Burning (two things Cele builds need to be competitive).

 

On weapons: 

 

With the exception of Sword, the rest of core warrior's weapons focus on doing one aspect of the game (aka power, condi, utility). Celestial builds want to be able to do both power and condi damage at the same time, or else you're simply wasting stats by not specializing in a specific damage type. So sword must be perfect, right? Wrong, because bleeding isn't worth going Celestial, as the minimal condition power will feel negligible when bleeding is your only condition.

So that means we got to get burning, the only other condition that Warriors have access to. Unfortunately for Core Warriors, their sole access to burning is via Longbow, and let me tell you how bad Longbow is.

 

Longbow AA chain takes 3/4 seconds. That alone should tell you how bad it feels to play with Longbow. But that's not all, 3/5 of Longbow skills take 3/4 seconds to cast, and we can push that number to 4/6 if we include Longbow burst. And of those 6 skills, only 2 provide burning at base level; you need to take Crackshot over Warrior's Sprint if you want burning on your AA.

 

You might say, "Oh, burning on AA? That sounds great, what's wrong?" What's wrong is the fact that the AA chain takes 3/4 seconds to cast, and it is a slow moving projectile. So 3/4 seconds to even release the arrows, and a moment for the arrow to travel. Coupled with the fact that, even in full Cele, the burning only lasts 1.5 seconds, you will not be able to refresh your burning stacks quick enough. Basically, you will never get above 2 stacks of burning by only using LB AA. 

 

Let's talk about Longbow burst, because this skill has me fuming. 

It takes 3/4 seconds to cast, and even longer for the actual projectile to land. I kid you not, you could fire it at a person, and before the skill even lands, that person can walk away from the AoE. I mean it. You don't have to have swiftness, don't need to dodge, just walk away, and it won't land.

 

Let's not forget that the payoff for landing it is 4 stacks of burning, that refreshes every 3 seconds. Wow, what a great skill.

 

 

 

On might:

 

For Cele builds to work, you need Might. Lots of might. And for Warriors, the best traitline for might generation is Strength. Unfortunately, there's not much in Strength besides power, so you're taking Strength because you need might, but not utilizing the traitline to its full potential. Sure, you can go Cele Greatsword, but at that point, why not just go full power?

 

 

I haven't tried Berserker, but I have tried iterations of core using different traitlines as well as Spellbreaker. 

What I've found was that I could barely maintain 6-7 stacks of burning on a sentry, much less a player. The best way to set up was to utilize immobilizes, but in the current WvW meta with immob spam and cleanses, Warrior just falls short. 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by nativity.3057

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, nativity.3057 said:

The problems with Celestial Warrior are the weapons and access to Might and Burning (two things Cele builds need to be competitive).

 

On weapons: 

 

With the exception of Sword, the rest of core warrior's weapons focus on doing one aspect of the game (aka power, condi, utility). Celestial builds want to be able to do both power and condi damage at the same time, or else you're simply wasting stats by not specializing in a specific damage type. So sword must be perfect, right? Wrong, because bleeding isn't worth going Celestial, as the minimal condition power will feel negligible when bleeding is your only condition.

So that means we got to get burning, the only other condition that Warriors have access to. Unfortunately for Core Warriors, their sole access to burning is via Longbow, and let me tell you how bad Longbow is.

 

Longbow AA chain takes 3/4 seconds. That alone should tell you how bad it feels to play with Longbow. But that's not all, 3/5 of Longbow skills take 3/4 seconds to cast, and we can push that number to 4/6 if we include Longbow burst. And of those 6 skills, only 2 provide burning at base level; you need to take Crackshot over Warrior's Sprint if you want burning on your AA.

 

You might say, "Oh, burning on AA? That sounds great, what's wrong?" What's wrong is the fact that the AA chain takes 3/4 seconds to cast, and it is a slow moving projectile. So 3/4 seconds to even release the arrows, and a moment for the arrow to travel. Coupled with the fact that, even in full Cele, the burning only lasts 1.5 seconds, you will not be able to refresh your burning stacks quick enough. Basically, you will never get above 2 stacks of burning by only using LB AA. 

 

Let's talk about Longbow burst, because this skill has me fuming. 

It takes 3/4 seconds to cast, and even longer for the actual projectile to land. I kid you not, you could fire it at a person, and before the skill even lands, that person can walk away from the AoE. I mean it. You don't have to have swiftness, don't need to dodge, just walk away, and it won't land.

 

Let's not forget that the payoff for landing it is 4 stacks of burning, that refreshes every 3 seconds. Wow, what a great skill.

 

 

 

On might:

 

For Cele builds to work, you need Might. Lots of might. And for Warriors, the best traitline for might generation is Strength. Unfortunately, there's not much in Strength besides power, so you're taking Strength because you need might, but not utilizing the traitline to its full potential. Sure, you can go Cele Greatsword, but at that point, why not just go full power?

 

 

I haven't tried Berserker, but I have tried iterations of core using different traitlines as well as Spellbreaker. 

What I've found was that I could barely maintain 6-7 stacks of burning on a sentry, much less a player. The best way to set up was to utilize immobilizes, but in the current WvW meta with immob spam and cleanses, Warrior just falls short. 

 

Body blow for bleeds mate.

Turn every cc into a condi skill.

Str: bot/top/bot 

Disc: top/any/bot 

Arms: top/bot/mid 

Sword/shield, longbow along your standard utility bar, though kick can be taken along with BC for stacking bleeds.

 

Aristocracy runes, doom sigil, blight sigil, torment on crit sigil.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mungrul.9358]

When I came back to the game last year, I played through the entirety of HoT using exotic celestial as a Hambow.

While the build was certainly durable, it took forever to kill things.

 

Since then however, I've learned a lot more about build crafting, so wouldn't be averse to trying it again to really take advantage of the generalist spread and higher total stats. But Celestial's a much bigger investment than most other combos, and that's just enough to stop me experimenting.

[jpsssss.7530]

I run Cele weapons, Viper Armor, cele rings, cele back piece, 1 cele accessory and 1 viper acessory with viper amulet and runes of divinity. I'm rockin sword/torch and mace/shield and its really fun. It works well in PvE and small scale WvW.

[covahlam.6391]

So I recently acquired an ascended set of celestial heavy armor and decided to do some roaming on my warrior with the following build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKABwmlzlJwSYXMMGKOOTlLfA-z1IY1onvUqMB6ME6NCCvAc/QEm9wbJ+JL-w

It actually seemed to work pretty well. Anyone try something similar or have some optimization tips?

Also, that setup is the goal, but I don't have the tokens on hand for aristocracy runes. For the time being, I'm just using hoelbrak runes cause they were cheap.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, covahlam.6391 said:

So I recently acquired an ascended set of celestial heavy armor and decided to do some roaming on my warrior with the following build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKABwmlzlJwSYXMMGKOOTlLfA-z1IY1onvUqMB6ME6NCCvAc/QEm9wbJ+JL-w

It actually seemed to work pretty well. Anyone try something similar or have some optimization tips?

Also, that setup is the goal, but I don't have the tokens on hand for aristocracy runes. For the time being, I'm just using hoelbrak runes cause they were cheap.

Swap an OH for OH axe. You won't really be making use of Warrior's Cunning otherwise.

I regularly do cele Axe/Axe + LB or GS + Rifle. You'll need a hard hitting skill to clean up with and Sword MH at least has FT, but Mace MH/OH and sword OH really don't. OH Sword on paper would seem like it does but it is too clunky compared to OH Axe.

The extra concentration isn't needed. You'd be better off shoring up another stat like Power or Condition Damage with your infusions.

[covahlam.6391]

13 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Swap an OH for OH axe. You won't really be making use of Warrior's Cunning otherwise.

I regularly do cele Axe/Axe + LB or GS + Rifle. You'll need a hard hitting skill to clean up with and Sword MH at least has FT, but Mace MH/OH and sword OH really don't. OH Sword on paper would seem like it does but it is too clunky compared to OH Axe.

The extra concentration isn't needed. You'd be better off shoring up another stat like Power or Condition Damage with your infusions.

Thanks. Warrior is my main alt and not my main class, so it's helpful to consult with the experts.

I'll give OH axe a try in lieu of OH mace. The CB+FT combo chunks HP decently and tremor is good for chase potential, but you're totally right that OH axe offers better, more reliable damage. While I was playing, I didn't come across any condi uber tanks, but I imagine the extra axe damage is probably necessary vs. such builds.

I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with OH sword. For now it seems to be working so I'll keep it. The great thing about roaming is being able to swap a broken or subpar piece on the fly. I have almost zero roaming experience, so I'm still adjusting to how it differs vs spvp.

I realized draining sigils don't have an ICD, so I should swap to using those on both sets if I end up keeping OH mace. An extra 1k+ damage (+ healing) per interrupt is nice. Also, even though berserker isn't the best for might stacking, I will try working it in over strength, swapping OH mace for torch. The berserk mode bonuses combined with FGJ work out to be a considerable stat boost.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, covahlam.6391 said:

Thanks. Warrior is my main alt and not my main class, so it's helpful to consult with the experts.

I'll give OH axe a try in lieu of OH mace. The CB+FT combo chunks HP decently and tremor is good for chase potential, but you're totally right that OH axe offers better, more reliable damage. While I was playing, I didn't come across any condi uber tanks, but I imagine the extra axe damage is probably necessary vs. such builds.

I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with OH sword. For now it seems to be working so I'll keep it. The great thing about roaming is being able to swap a broken or subpar piece on the fly. I have almost zero roaming experience, so I'm still adjusting to how it differs vs spvp.

I realized draining sigils don't have an ICD, so I should swap to using those on both sets if I end up keeping OH mace. An extra 1k+ damage (+ healing) per interrupt is nice. Also, even though berserker isn't the best for might stacking, I will try working it in over strength, swapping OH mace for torch. The berserk mode bonuses combined with FGJ work out to be a considerable stat boost.

The quickness from Dual Strike would also help get FT off quicker and is a more powerful combo than CB+FT. Savage Leap into Whirling Axe is really fun, especially if you take Leg Specialist.

Berserk mode itself is a good stat boost, but it can work against you if the foe chooses to kite away at that point to waste your time. What I like to do is bait their stunbreaks, then eat one of their stuns on purpose, break it with Headbutt and stun them. Savage Instinct will let Berserk Mode break my self stun and I'll then do back to back bursts on the target. Pretty effective.

Kind of sad that the best way to use Berserk Mode is in a clutch moment to end a fight immediately rather than for the duration of a fight, but that is the way I've had the most success with Berserker post Feb2020.