Secondary objectives/mechanics

[Gibson.4036]

Hello, all. New PvPer here, with only ten matches under my belt so far.

Can someone explain or point me to a resource that explains which maps secondary objectives/mechanics are considered useful, under what conditions to use them, and which aren't considered useful?

I've played a match in Kyhlo where no one even touched a trebuchet, and another where they seem to be constantly used. I've read someone on these forums dismissing the Djinn's lamp as pointless. I've seen players kill the NPC in Niflhel.

Is there a general consensus on which mechanics to pay attention to and which are better avoided to just concentrate on nodes?

Thanks!

[Vancho.8750]

27 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Hello, all. New PvPer here, with only ten matches under my belt so far.

Can someone explain or point me to a resource that explains which maps secondary objectives/mechanics are considered useful, under what conditions to use them, and which aren't considered useful?

I've played a match in Kyhlo where no one even touched a trebuchet, and another where they seem to be constantly used. I've read someone on these forums dismissing the Djinn's lamp as pointless. I've seen players kill the NPC in Niflhel.

Is there a general consensus on which mechanics to pay attention to and which are better avoided to just concentrate on nodes?

Thanks!

Treb is useful when both teams are tanked up, so it is a stalemate and everyone is pillow fighting on points, a few treb shots made by the most mobile guy on the team to move people away from points breaks the stalemate.

Beasts are a gamble since they are 25 points each but is a thief hiding to last hit it.

The lord on foefire is desperation move or game finisher on snowballed game it is 150 points, but if you have a sidenoder that goes far it can be used as a distraction to split the enemy team but only if you can actually kill it solo with your build.

Temple of the silent storm you go and get that bot buff since it caps all points the top one is not as important but it doubles the point gain from the caps so it is really good idea to contest it at least, to counter it you have to decap the points.

Skyhammer : the hammer decaps enemy points so it is really useful, but only if you can handle the teamfight in the small place, if you can't you just recap your points.

Eternal Coliseum : The sword and shield buffs are really strong but the problem is that do you really have time to get one without losing some fight somewhere, usually the faster classes should try to pick it, but that shield buff is quite big on necro, so this one is not really the most important thing but sure does snowball your team.

Capricorn, you fight for that kitten node since every cap nets exponentially more points, but you also have to be careful to do not lose all your caps while getting it.

Bonus memes: Spirit watch, the orb is 50 points, but the thing is that the map is still kitteny and people can kill you while you are carrying it and cap it for themselves.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Lemme give this a shot:

For ranked:

Temple of the Silent Storm : Stillness and Tranquility are both mandatory to pay attention to. The first gives you double points per cap, the second flips any caps currently held by the opposite team to the one that claimed Tranquility to the claiming team's color. 

Map awareness determines when stillness should be picked up, but Tranquility is almost always mandatory. 

Revenge of the Capricorn: Bell is mandatory, but the first ring can be ignored if you have significant map control. the second ring is more mandatory and the third and fourth are game winners. If your team is winning all three points by first bell and nobody is going to mid, it's possible to gain more than 25 points by cleaning stragglers and staying on the capped points to contest returning opponents. 

Eternal Coliseum: Sword and Shield are both debatable. Sword is generally more useful for spike DPS classes like power mesmers and thieves that can't stomp very reliably, and shield is more useful for bunkers.

Battle_of_Kyhlo : Trebuchet is situational and in many cases does not need to be used. if there is a particularly unbreakable comp set up on mid, Treb can disrupt them; but more often than not it is not worth weakening your team presence trying to use the treb and it would be more efficient for you to lend your support to sidenode. 

Djinn's Dominion: Lamp is a worse trebuchet. It's often not worth the time spent claiming it for the skills it provides.

Legacy of the Foefire: Lord is anywhere from situational to mandatory depending on current score. if you are behind just enough to push lord, felling lord will get you a win, and you dont have map control, zerging lord not only puts you in win position but also weakens map pressure from opponent, because they have to leave points to stop you. Sometimes though, leaving to push lord will strengthen the opponent's position/allow them to regroup. Pushing lord after a wipe from the opponent is almost always bad, since opponent will spawn on top of you.

Forest of Niflhel: Beasts are the most volatile, sliding from mandatory to not mandatory based on opponent placement. If your opponent has a thief or mes and you don't know where they are on the map/you dont have anyone to push beast down quickly, fighting beast is an egregious handicap, as points only go to last hit and mesmers/thieves like to steal beast from a group of unaware opponents trying to fight it.  If opponents are all busy on mid and far, your beast /their beast are safe to push. If they are respawning, their beast is unsafe to push by you. if your teammates are respawning, your beast is unsafe to push by them. 

You cannot completely ignore beast though, because if you all wipe at mid or close where your beast is, the points are free to opponent. This goes for them as well. The nuances for this secondary will take a few games to learn

Skyhammer

Skyhammer is less mandatory than tranquility, but still pretty critical. Its importance often depends on how much the other team needs it. Since capping skyhammer neutralizes all non team aligned points, it is more useful for the team with less map presence/the team to which the slower thief belongs. 

Generally, these factors will determine whether you should contest skyhammer or hold. 

>Whether the opponent is zerging (running from point to point as a group) or spread out

>Whether the opponent has a comp that is easier to push off point than yours (They will be going for skyhammer and you can stall them by contesting it if yours is stronger. if theirs is stronger you will need skyhammer to reset them)

>Whether the opponent comp is faster at decapping than you (their thief is faster) or not. if your thief is slower, resetting with skyhammer can give them a window to cap far and split the map. If your thief is faster, it might be more prudent to let them handle the far node harassment themselves and push mid/observe home. 

 

 

 

[Ragnar.4257]

To categorise in a different way:

 

MUST do if at all possible, only skip if you'll instantly die by trying to contest (e.g. you'll be 1v3 and you're not a bunker):

Tranquility on Temple, Bell on Capricorn, Hammer on Skyhammer

 

Only do if you have the luxury of time, do NOT do if your team needs your help elsewhere:

Stillness on Temple, Beasts on Forest, Sword/Shield on Coliseum 

 

NEVER do in a serious game, these only exist for memes or extremely niche situations:

Lord on Foefire, Trebuchet on Khylo, Orb on Spirit Watch, Lamp on Djinn's Dominion.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Gibson.4036]

Thank you! Very helpful insights to chew on. I very much appreciate you all taking the time to write these out.

[Khalisto.5780]

i think godsofpvp website  has some valuable info about map mechanics, even tell you the bad ones like kyloh