HOW TO FIX UNTAMED IN WVW/TEAMFIGHTS - Pets should become invulnerable totems/spirits when unleashed.

[kappa.2036]

As everyone knows, ranger has always been the worst teamfight class, purely because their main mechanic (1) doesn't bring enough group utilities (2) die too fast.

After 8+ years, Anet still didn't fix this. Seems like they want ranger to be played ONLY as a sidenode dueler or a roaming/gvg class, which is a shame, since a lot of us like to play with other players/friends, synergizing with them, but WE CAN'T.

 

Now, we got Untamed, which got described by Anet as a teamfight oriented/bruiser/frontliner. Untamed in its current state is not a teamfighter (no group utilities, only selfish boons, poor damage and boonrip, no unique utilities), nor a bruiser (no blocks, evades, mobility or sustain in any skill), nor a frontliner (no stunbreaks, no stability on demand, also pets can't survive in the frontline).

 

So, beside the infinite number of bugs/problems Untamed has, here's how i would fix the spec for its desired role:

- New Grandmaster trait instead of Restorative Strikes called Unleashed Spirit: Your pet become an invulnerable Spirit when unleashed. When in this form,  pet's can't autoattack and is locked in place (like Scourge shades), but can still perform its Unlseashed skills. I think this is a good tradeoff since we lose the DPS of the pet but the pet will be useful in larger fights without dying. This only change will basically solve the viability problem of the spec in wvw.

- Hammer cc kit needs to be swapped with the damage kit. There is no reason to have a lot of cc while our pet is unleashed, since Venomous Outburst, Rending Vines and Enveloping Haze don't do any damage at all. Just swap hammer unleash mode with the unleashed.

- Venomous Outburst needs more poison stacks or additional group benefits.

- Rending Vines needs more damage and more boons ripped in competitive modes.

- Enveloping Haze needs to pulse poison for its entire duration.

- Perilous Gift needs to be a skill like Defiant Stance for both the Untamed and the pet. This will improve the survivability of the pet by a lot.

- Cleansing Unleash needs to partially revive your pet by 50%, and remove 1 condition aoe for every ally in the radius.

- Debilitating Blows and Enhancing Impact could be merged into 1 trait. The missing trait could be a trait that improve the effects of Cantrips and reduce their cooldown.

 

These simple changes will make Untamed viable in wvw and pvp teamfights (and are still not enough to make the spec meta in any way). But being viable is still better than the current trash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beddo.1907]

Ok so few things:

-Why would anyone take you into the squad instead of anything else? You bring nothing that's worth it and you even lose a lot of stats as a tradeoff for pet that does even less now with your idea.

-When the pet is unleashed does it still get boons/invis/buffs? If it does you fixed nothing.

-Why would you want cantrips if they do nothing worth picking?

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

I mean, maybe? Feels like at that point with the invuln totem / spirit pet, feels a lot more like a new mechanic that would be more fitting of a completely separate elite spec than essentially making it a sub-spec by choosing a GM trait. I’m all for this idea of a mechanic where pets are replaced by immobile spirits / totems, but it should be it’s own stand alone elite spec akin to a Shaman / Witch Doctor theme for example and not something tacked onto Untamed.

 

2 hours ago, kappa.2036 said:

- Hammer cc kit needs to be swapped with the damage kit. There is no reason to have a lot of cc while our pet is unleashed, since Venomous Outburst, Rending Vines and Enveloping Haze don't do any damage at all. Just swap hammer unleash mode with the unleashed.

With the way the traits are set up now, this would not work. The current idea seems to be an “offense vs defense” mode as evident by the hammer skills when you’re leashed/unleashed and the damage modifiers from our minor traits. If we have +Damage% while hammer also gets nerfed damage due to it being more CC focused during that time, what the point. Not to mention when you’re leashed and you get -Damage% as well as a swap to a more damage focused skill set. These two mechanics would go completely against each other.

[kappa.2036]

12 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Ok so few things:

-Why would anyone take you into the squad instead of anything else? You bring nothing that's worth it and you even lose a lot of stats as a tradeoff for pet that does even less now with your idea.

-When the pet is unleashed does it still get boons/invis/buffs? If it does you fixed nothing.

-Why would you want cantrips if they do nothing worth picking?

- Having a totem/spirit being able to teleport do anemies and inflict poison, rip boons, and pulsing aoe poison destroying projectiles is still better than having a dead pet running around with you. I'm not saying it would be meta, but it will be a good starting point.

- I think it would get the same treatment as a scourge's shade. You can see them on the battlefield, but they can't be targeted or anything, can't get boons, etc.

- My cantrip heal would be used in wvw. There are plenty of ideas in this subforum about other cantrip skills.

[kappa.2036]

11 hours ago, AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:

I mean, maybe? Feels like at that point with the invuln totem / spirit pet, feels a lot more like a new mechanic that would be more fitting of a completely separate elite spec than essentially making it a sub-spec by choosing a GM trait. I’m all for this idea of a mechanic where pets are replaced by immobile spirits / totems, but it should be it’s own stand alone elite spec akin to a Shaman / Witch Doctor theme for example and not something tacked onto Untamed.

 

With the way the traits are set up now, this would not work. The current idea seems to be an “offense vs defense” mode as evident by the hammer skills when you’re leashed/unleashed and the damage modifiers from our minor traits. If we have +Damage% while hammer also gets nerfed damage due to it being more CC focused during that time, what the point. Not to mention when you’re leashed and you get -Damage% as well as a swap to a more damage focused skill set. These two mechanics would go completely against each other.

A lot of specs change their playstyle entirely by choosing a GM trait.

 

Your thoughts are right, but I think we have enough damage modifier traits with core traitlines and soulbeast. Honestly, Untamed doesn't need damage modifiers, since its not even his role. It needs defense stats modifiers, and maybe cc/expertise duration modifiers. So i would just rework the Damage% trait. Also this problem is only with the hammer.

Edited November 12, 2021 by kappa.2036

[Gotejjeken.1267]

This is great but, we had spirit ranger and they even nerfed that.  By this I mean they stopped spirits from moving and they STILL aren't invulnerable totems (even though they are literally tailor made to be).  

You would think they'd work into this and unleash 'sprit pets' or something new with Untamed.  But, nope! 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

This is great but, we had spirit ranger and they even nerfed that.  By this I mean they stopped spirits from moving and they STILL aren't invulnerable totems (even though they are literally tailor made to be).  

You would think they'd work into this and unleash 'sprit pets' or something new with Untamed.  But, nope! 

They removed Spirits Unbound right before introduction of the Herald, for obvious reasons. Core Ranger with moving spirits and Nature's Vengeance is somewhat better, or at least, it competes with it.

They need to bring Spirits Unbound back, at least roll it into Nature's Vengeance. Spirits are useless right now outside raids.

[anduriell.6280]

On 11/12/2021 at 2:13 PM, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

They removed Spirits Unbound right before introduction of the Herald, for obvious reasons. Core Ranger with moving spirits and Nature's Vengeance is somewhat better, or at least, it competes with it.

They need to bring Spirits Unbound back, at least roll it into Nature's Vengeance. Spirits are useless right now outside raids.

Yes, i never understood why they crippled an exisiting build variety in a class to be replaced by another one much more toxic . Like if in the game it could not coexists two similar builds from different classes. 

It really bothers me the ranger always get the short stick in cases like that one. 

I am not a fan of invulnerable pets thou, i know pets are a liability in WvW but it's the Devs job to find a way around it. I would say the pet just need to be able to survive long enough so it can be swapped every 20 seconds and untammed has to provide that. 

[Downstate.4697]

Not every elite spec exists for every gamemode. Unleashed offers nothing new anywhere. Soulbeast was the solution to wvw and has plenty of options for frontline play. Ita not meta simply because it doesnt fit in standard comps.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

3 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Not every elite spec exists for every gamemode. Unleashed offers nothing new anywhere. Soulbeast was the solution to wvw and has plenty of options for frontline play. Ita not meta simply because it doesnt fit in standard comps.

With a few small changes, it would be a 1/10 choice though. I can't remember if I've said it in this thread, but making Leader of the Pack 10 allies with unreduced duration and making Fresh Reinforcement copy boons to allies too would make it very desired.

 

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Yes, i never understood why they crippled an exisiting build variety in a class to be replaced by another one much more toxic . Like if in the game it could not coexists two similar builds from different classes. 

It really bothers me the ranger always get the short stick in cases like that one. 

I am not a fan of invulnerable pets thou, i know pets are a liability in WvW but it's the Devs job to find a way around it. I would say the pet just need to be able to survive long enough so it can be swapped every 20 seconds and untammed has to provide that. 

I would seriously just be happy with them removing the death penalty from swap CD. Maybe apply all healing done to the Ranger to the pet as well.