Virtuoso Needs Off-hand Dagger

[piitb.7635]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:36 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Phantasms don't just need to be utility skills. They can be nukes with side utility. Considering many of them have longer cd's than shatters, they should be hitting harder than a mindwrack.

 

If dagger offhand phantasm was just a nuke ability, dagger offhand and by extension, Virtuoso, would be shoe horned as the mesmer PVE spec.

 

Last thing mesmer needs for balance is to be locked into one playstyle

[FarmBotXD.1430]

the fact that all weapon skills from virtuoso do nothing but damage and yet some people want to have also off-hand dagger that does nothing but damage 😄

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

What Virtuoso needs is to get rid of mainhand dagger and replace it with mainhand pistol. At least let us be sexy if we are gonna suck. 

(Necro gets a pistol and we get a dagger? WTF ANET)

Edited January 7, 2022 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Ombras.2853]

Lol?

Mainhand Dagger is maybe the only sexy thing Virtuoso has at the moment.

Make it two.

[Salt Mode.3780]

20 minutes ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Lol?

Mainhand Dagger is maybe the only sexy thing Virtuoso has at the moment.

Make it two.

Too bad the animation itself is not sexy...

[FarmBotXD.1430]

14 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

What Virtuoso needs is to get rid of mainhand dagger and replace it with mainhand pistol. At least let us be sexy if we are gonna suck. 

(Necro gets a pistol and we get a dagger? WTF ANET)

TBH if we could use quip as main hand with virtuoso it could legit save the spec.
The clow noises and confetti fit perfectly

[Raven.8156]

Move Blade Leap to a Dagger Offhand

The more I think about it, it might make more since to make blade leap a dagger 4 skill. Why would sword 3 be modified on virtuoso when you can't pair it with dagger main hand? Doesn't make sense to me...

 

While it's true that you need not bring dagger, that really isn't the purpose here. We should be able to play with the new weapon. Blade Leap on sword 3 provides some mobility and utility to restock a blade but can't be paired with the mainhand dagger....  That is a bad design choice IMO.

 

 

[Raven.8156]

On 1/6/2022 at 5:21 AM, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

the fact that all weapon skills from virtuoso do nothing but damage and yet some people want to have also off-hand dagger that does nothing but damage 😄

No, it seems people want an off-hand dagger that provides some survivability and/or mobility. Not more damage.

[Obtena.7952]

On 12/11/2021 at 7:01 AM, Tseison.4659 said:

Okay we get it, and I think as a community we need to stop shutting others down when they have an opinion about changes and adding something new to a class. We’re all not naive and are fully aware that Anet doesn’t listen to any sort of creative ideas PERIOD, unless it happen to be their art contests.

 

You know, that's not a very fair criticism because there ARE instances where Anet HAS listened to players and their feedback. Proof in point: the espec changes in EoD Beta 4 (and yes, even for Virtuoso).

Now, here is the KEY ... if you want ideas Anet will listen to, they have to be inline with the concept of the class. To be obvious here ... Virtuoso is highly unlikely to get a OH dagger simply because it's not part of the concept of the class. It's also important to note this isn't the only barrier to implementation. Ironically, people don't want to believe these gating factors exist and just QQ about ideas not being listened to because they think they are amazing. That's unfortunate people are this stubborn. 

The fact is that Anet is telling us Virtuoso is shaping up to be a shatter DPS build ... and people are arguing it needs OH Dagger for mobility and such things? Do people hear themselves? That kind of thinking is ill-considered. If you consider what Anet is telling you, then from a weapon POV, there is NOTHING an OH dagger will solve since there are a few offhands that are already more than appropriate for the Virtuoso. 

The worst part is that for WHATEVER problem is trying to be solved here, people completely bypassed the OBVIOUS place to look ... the skills on the MH Dagger, the 5 blades we can get and Bladesongs. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

Simple question is do devs even play their own game to a competitive or a serious standpoint, lets look at the most successful game atm its no surprise its FFXIV, every developer in there plays their own game farming and grinding gears like everyone else. Now why is this relevant because they play their game to a player standpoint they are able to understand how to balance and change the game and know which to filter out bad and good ideas from players based on their OWN gameplay experience.

Now from the changes that were made to each class it is clear that they do not play their own game enough to know what changes need to be made. So people blindly defending ANET devs is only going to hurt the game. 

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Now from the changes that were made to each class it is clear that they do not play their own game enough to know what changes need to be made. 

That doesn't make sense. Only Anet knows best how they want Virtuoso to work. The changes that need to be made are the ones that make the spec work like how Anet intends it, not how players want it. 

The sad thing is that real problem with Virtuoso spec is going to be the balance between blade management and bladesong executions as a DPS spec ... yet for some reason, people are talking about OH daggers. 🤔

Edited January 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't make sense. Only Anet knows best how they want Virtuoso to work. The changes that need to be made are the ones that make the spec work like how Anet intends it, not how players want it. 

The sad thing is that real problem with Virtuoso spec is going to be running around with full blades waiting on Shatter CD's ... yet for some reason, people are talking about OH daggers. 🤔

Again anet doesnt play the game enough to know what real changes are needed to be made on virtuoso because they personally dont play it enough in even low end pvp wvw roaming or even in PvE. Fine maybe players dont know what is best for the class or the vision that anet wants for the class but again its because they themselves dont play it enough to understand what it needs and why its lacking. 

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Again anet doesnt play the game enough ...

You don't know that. You have no idea what their development and testing process is. Even if you guess is close to true ... it hasn't stopped them to make especs work how they want in the past and Virtuoso is no exception.

So basically, you can try to shame all you like, but the process is what Anet wants it to be and so will Virtuoso. If you want feedback to matter, the concept of the spec needs to be considered. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

11 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You don't know that. You have no idea what their development and testing process is. Even if you guess is close to true ... it hasn't stopped them to make especs work how they want in the past and Virtuoso is no exception.

So basically, you can try to shame all you like, but the process is what Anet wants it to be and so will Virtuoso. If you want feedback to matter, the concept of the spec needs to be considered. 

Again its no shame but its clear base on the history of balance patch notes and the common denominator of player complaints of balances is clear that they dont play the game enough. 

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Again its no shame but its clear base on the history of balance patch notes and the common denominator of player complaints of balances is clear that they dont play the game enough. 

No, it's not clear they don't play the game based on these factors. You have no idea what their process is or what their targets are for spec development. That's just some nonsense people say because they don't like how Anet is creating the game. 

Again, whether that is true or not, Anet will make the spec how they want it to work, so it's pretty irrelevant whether you think they play the game or they don't. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, it's not clear they don't play the game based on these factors. You have no idea what their process is or what their targets are for spec development. That's just some nonsense people say because they don't like how Anet is creating the game. 

Again, whether that is true or not, Anet will make the spec how they want it to work, so it's pretty irrelevant either way.

Ok so the devs create a class that THEY want but its the PLAYERS that make the majority of the population of the game not the DEVS. If the DEVS are making this said e-spec how they envisioned it to be they dont even make 1% of the whole gw2 playerbase or community. I mean that is basically what your defense has always been. 

I mean yea the developers that make the game but a game is only as successful as the playerbase not the developer. You can have a team of genius talented developers but if no one plays the game then it doesn't matter what the developers had envisioned. Hopefully u get this concept before you start using the word devs loosely. 

Not asking for every idea the community throws at it to be valid but seeing no common ground is an issue. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Ok so the devs create a class that THEY want but its the PLAYERS that make the majority of the game not the DEVS. If the DEVS are making this said e-spec how they envisioned it to be they dont even make 1% of the whole gw2 playerbase or community. I mean that is basically what your defense has always been. 

I mean yea the developers that make the game but a game is only as successful as the playerbase not the developer. You can have a team of genius talented developers but if no one plays the game then it doesn't matter what the developers had envisioned. Hopefully u get this concept before you start using the word devs loosely. 

Players don't make the majority of the game ... what are you even talking about?  

Pretty sure Anet doesn't have to worry about people not playing the game because of an espec not working how some people think it should. We have two expansions to prove it. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Players don't make the majority of the game ... what are you talking about?

Ok im sorry what? Either you need to rephrase this comment or you are clearly trolling in which ill just end all direct conversation with you here. 

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Ok im sorry what? Either you need to rephrase this comment or you are clearly trolling in which ill just end all direct conversation with you here. 

You SAID: Ok so the devs create a class that THEY want but its the PLAYERS that make the majority of the game not the DEVS

The players do NOT make the majority of the game.  Players don't make ANY of the game. You know what the word MAKE means right?

Edited January 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You SAID: Ok so the devs create a class that THEY want but its the PLAYERS that make the majority of the game not the DEVS

The players do NOT make the majority of the game.  Players don't make ANY of the game. You know what the work MAKE means right?

The edit didnt go through but thanks for correcting it now you can re-read what i said and it will make more sense.

[Obtena.7952]

Sure players make the population of the game ... and? This game (ANY game) is not made to order so the fact that some players don't like how the spec works isn't as big a deal as you want to make it sound. It's not like the first time an espec wasn't the way some people wanted it. That's not a reason for Anet to second guess how they want it to work. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Players don't make the majority of the game ... what are you even talking about?  

Pretty sure Anet doesn't have to worry about people not playing the game because of an espec not working how some people think it should. We have two expansions to prove it. 

Having expansions dont mean the game is in a healthy state lol. In fact expansions at this point is hopefully keeping them alive longer. With each expansion players have quit game modes that have been forgotten like WvW and SPvP people have moved on. Again you dont know that each expansion yield more players infact it can do the opposite. So game releasing an expansion does not correlate to game doing well. Biggest example is WoW.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Having expansions dont mean the game is in a healthy state lol. In fact expansions at this point is hopefully keeping them alive longer. With each expansion players have quit game modes that have been forgotten like WvW and SPvP people have moved on. Again you dont know that each expansion yield more players infact it can do the opposite. So game releasing an expansion does not correlate to game doing well. Biggest example is WoW.

OK ... and I said about the relationship between expansions and game health ... who are you talking to?

Edited January 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure players make the population of the game ... and? This game (NO game) is made to order so the fact that some players don't like how the spec works isn't as big a deal as you want to make it sound. It's not like the first time an espec wasn't the way some people wanted it. That's not a reason for Anet to second guess how they want it to work. 

Again it was never about the e-spec its the WHOLE picture adding on the the e-spec.

The balance changes made in the February patch, SPvP bots and hackers, SPvP removing trinkets instead of actual balancing, Alliance only NOW being worked on even tho this was announced YEARS ago. This is the Mesmer part of the forum thread ofc its only focusing on Mesmer but across ALL the classes people have been talking about the balances around each of the classes. ALL of this is a collection of issues, Virtuoso is just the new hot topic of said problems. 

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... and I said nothing of the sort so ... who are you talking to?

So indirectly you agree with me that expansions don't mean success people each expansion every e-spec had issues and players had been asking for changes because like you said it probably isnt what the devs envision the e-spec to be, and so with each expansion there is less and less player count, at least in competitive scene.

Luckily I quoted you before you changed it to be something else. Anyways before you continue on rambling please get back to the topic that Virtuoso needs off-hand dagger. 

Cheers.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780