Herald Support

[Nephalem.8921]

4 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Herald damage is a very hard discussion to be had and should be put off for later.
Reason being support meta and landscape is about to change, bigtime. Meta supports (fb, scourge, renegade) are scheduled for nerfs.  New EoD supports will step in (Harbingers, Mechanists, Specters, Vindicators). Not to mention core rangers and warriors getting reworks to their support skills (spirits and banners).

Once dust settles on all that we'll be able to talk where a given support specs ranks among it's peers and what damage it should boast in relation to that.

Let's also keep in mind that Herald's dps numbers aren't supposed to be competitive, but slightly behind. That's because Herald is the defensive support and his main forte is consistency and reliability in all he does. He may look like garbage on training golems but in real battles where you have to deal with mechanics (some of which herald can happily ignore)  and party members who aren't exactly focused on staying near you to catch all the boons - that's where he shines and carries.

Vindicator is not a support build. It offers only healing with some barrier which will maybe see some meme uses in wvsw. Im not sure if you understand pve content? Herald isnt a defensive support since its power. Any condi is instantly a better defensive support thanks to trailblazer. Herald will lose the 10 target boons so it will lose the very minor niche it had. Will most likely stay strong in wvw but it was only played in very niche raid speedkills in healerless comps. 0 representation in pug groups or most normal groups. Non existant in fractals.

Also herald doesnt compete with fb,  scourge or ren and scourge is not a meta support either.

Nobody should be able to ignore any mechanic. It just creates a situation where a group of trailblazer condi builds can faceroll through it. Which mechanic can herald ignore? Do you mean sabir shockwaves? multiple classes can ignore those actually. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

8 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Vindicator is not a support build. It offers only healing with some barrier which will maybe see some meme uses in wvsw. Im not sure if you understand pve content? Herald isnt a defensive support since its power. Any condi is instantly a better defensive support thanks to trailblazer. Herald will lose the 10 target boons so it will lose the very minor niche it had. Will most likely stay strong in wvw but it was only played in very niche raid speedkills in healerless comps. 0 representation in pug groups or most normal groups. Non existant in fractals.

Also herald doesnt compete with fb,  scourge or ren and scourge is not a meta support either.

Nobody should be able to ignore any mechanic. It just creates a situation where a group of trailblazer condi builds can faceroll through it. Which mechanic can herald ignore? Do you mean sabir shockwaves? multiple classes can ignore those actually. 

All of this matters little. Because all we know is that a huge shakeup is coming in matter of days. But we know far too little on what the end result will be. We first need to see that, before deciding if, where and how the boosts should come to herald.

As for skipping mechanics I disagree - some professions having such ability is super fun and is good for the balance of the game. As long as these are kept in proper check. Glint heal is one such mechanic done right. I can skip green circle shared party damage mechanic and instead solo tank it, converting it into massive heal. Saved me some Whisper of Jormag runs from wiping at last phase. But it can be used only once every 30s and only for self.  That is good balance.

Edited February 23, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Nephalem.8921]

8 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

All of this matters little. Because all we know is that a huge shakeup is coming in matter of days. But we know far too little on what the end result will be. We first need to see that, before deciding if, where and how the boosts should come to herald.

As for skipping mechanics I disagree - some professions having such ability is super fun and is good for the balance of the game. As long as these are kept in proper check. Glint heal is one such mechanic done right. I can skip green circle shared party damage mechanic and instead solo tank it, converting it into massive heal. Saved me some Whisper of Jormag runs from wiping at last phase. But it can be used only once every 30s and only for self.  That is good balance.

Thats a massive copium. They would have to nerf a lot of builds to make herald relevant in pve or give it quickness. Its not even good at giving might.

Ignoring mechanics is never good balance. It promotes unhealthy class stacking and degenerate strats but that skill is a bad example. engi and warr have access to it aswell and both have it as core skills.

What if you would have multiple shared circles in a fight? coordination would be hard and strategy could devolve very fast into 2 engis doing it with aed. Gw2 endgame needs all players to deal with mechanics. currently only 3 or less are doing all of them while the rest kills a dps golem.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

24 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Thats a massive copium. They would have to nerf a lot of builds to make herald relevant in pve or give it quickness. Its not even good at giving might.

Ignoring mechanics is never good balance. It promotes unhealthy class stacking and degenerate strats but that skill is a bad example. engi and warr have access to it aswell and both have it as core skills.

What if you would have multiple shared circles in a fight? coordination would be hard and strategy could devolve very fast into 2 engis doing it with aed. Gw2 endgame needs all players to deal with mechanics. currently only 3 or less are doing all of them while the rest kills a dps golem.

Not copium, foresight. I also took in account worse scenario - you getting your wish.
Let's say a-net listens to you - now power herald benches 37k dps like a Chad.
Meanwhile in Catha... turns out that after some weeks of learning ins and out of new e-specs snow crows post 50k benches for Harbinger and dps specs. Herald once again bites the dust.

I'm not saying no to buffs at all. I'm saying - wait a bit longer. Undersized buff may be worse as no buff at all, as the latter at least gives ground for immediate attention from balance team, while something that got already "checked off the list" may end up waiting for months until it gets justice.

Also a word of reminder - Herald can be played as condi with better dps than power (30k). In fact i played condi support herald most of my time, ignoring power variants, due to better sustain (tormenting runes) and supportive capability (using Draconic echoes does not kitten your damage output). My variant ofc dealt less damage as i used plaguedoctor for that juicy boon duration, but with viper you can be a snowcrow too;) Heck with new Ritualist gear you'll be getting near viper damage while having very good boon duration and as such less energy spent on facet upkeep.

I agree that 2 players doing the mechanics while rest ignores is bad design. I am all aboard however for everyone getting some get outta jail cards on mechanics, so they can feel awesome and outplay the game once in a while. As long as it's for self only and can be used from time to time, not completely voiding the mechanic. And ofc depending on profession's balance. For example lower dps spec can enjoy more such freebies to keep pumping damage while others gotta back off, to make up in consistency what it lacks in raw power.

Edited February 23, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Puck.3697]

I cant rly see Herald getting many PvE buffs.

primarily because Anet don't tend to be great at making speccs work in every mode of the game. 

Herald seems to have found its role in being the PvP / WvWvW option for revenant. 

Which tbh I have no problem with, it looks like they intend to fix revenants lack of power options with vindicator (although many have doubts concerning it) as the second beta testing for vindicator was defintly a vast improvement to its first. 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Aeolus.3615]

7 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I cant rly see Herald getting many PvE buffs.

primarily because Anet don't tend to be great at making speccs work in every mode of the game. 

Herald seems to have found its role in being the PvP / WvWvW option for revenant. 

Which tbh I have no problem with, it looks like they intend to fix revenants lack of power options with vindicator (although many have doubts concerning it) as the second beta testing for vindicator was defintly a vast improvement to its first. 

 

Heal quoficients boosted on both herald and ventari outside pve would be very dope!  :] hihihihi 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Virdo.1540]

On 2/23/2022 at 5:17 PM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Also a word of reminder - Herald can be played as condi with better dps than power (30k). In fact i played condi support herald most of my time, ignoring power variants, due to better sustain (tormenting runes) and supportive capability (using Draconic echoes does not kitten your damage output). 

 

Condi Heralds personal damage at the Golem is about 30k dps, thus its higher than power heralds personal damage of 28k. 

But unlike Power Herald, Condi version doesnt grant Shiros Facet of Nature. In 10man Groups ,power herald has an bigger impact on the damage than condi. 

 

Also, condi heralds damage comes mostly from torment ,which became terrible due to some bosses running around like stung by a swarm of bees. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Virdo.1540

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

7 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

 

Condi Heralds personal damage at the Golem is about 30k dps, thus its higher than power heralds personal damage of 28k. 

But unlike Power Herald, Condi version doesnt grant Shiros Facet of Nature. In 10man Groups ,power herald has an bigger impact on the damage than condi. 

 

Also, condi heralds damage comes mostly from torment ,which became terrible due to some bosses running around like stung by a swarm of bees. 

Fair points there. Something for something i guess. Power is more reliable as dps, condi has better sustain but is far more situational.