More Info on Strike Missions, Balance, and Rewards in End of Dragons

[aeris.5846]

3 hours ago, aeris.5846 said:

If anet explain mecanics and basic understanding of the game during 1-80 leveling, i guess mostly everybody can do weekly FC raid in 3 evening and CMs daily in 1h.

Here a perfect illustration of what I say. https://wtf.roflcopter.fr/pics/5srrNu6e/nhrzXat8.png

I go in strike, daily cold war, the content anet want to promote. No kp required on LFG. Here is the result. Buff mostly the same each sub. 3 peoples excluded me have some li/kp (not that much, we speak about a handful of each). You see them immediately.

The 3 skilled people target 40-50% of the SC bench. Can seems not that much but really it's only what is expected for a quite smooth run even in frac/raids. All other are 2-3 times under that. We speak about not even 10% of the potential of their class, doing the same dps as me as HFB… Difference very important even for the same build. One BS top DPS at 19k and the 2nd one only at 8.8k, competing with support. Even basic mecanic was not known, with people running solo with green under them, striking the entire squad, long animated attack not dodged, no depack on bomb, etc.

[Katary.7096]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:16 PM, Izzy.2951 said:

Easy answer:

 We want to spread the love to other types of content, but that means that NO single source should award such high amounts of legendary resources at the same time.

What does people dont understand? Fractal is by far the more rewarding thing to do regargind gold per hour (even without MC), for titles, skins and loads of stuff too. And they stated we DONT want a SINGLE source to award such high amounts of legendary resource at the same time. 

PD: You can keep raging for the total reverse of this, or actually ask for a "re-balance" like puting 0-1 MC per boss, or even 0.-2 per boss but with 10% drop instead of 14%. But no, in general people are blind, selfish and acts like kids in the internet. Thats what it is.

The problem is, and this has been mentioned before in this very thread, that that reason cannot possible be true. Since the blog post states that with EoD players will be able to get mystic coins AND mystic clovers from strike missions, they would be creating the same problem they want to solve in fractals. Not having a single source for all legendary resources doesn't seem to be the issue here. Also, if the developers thought that fractals gave too much gold per hour, surely the obvious way to adress that would be a decrease in raw gold.

I don't get it. Who is raging here?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

11 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

I dont know if you lack reading comprenhension, this maths are done by a fractal player that was complaining about this change with the argument "it takes a lot of investment in money/time" so we dont deserve a nerf: Why The Fractak Change is Bad And Why It Has Finally Pushed Me To Refound EoD.   

And now you say that the drops are justified cos it takes a lot of investment in money time etc, but you have been 4 post in a row saying how easy was to get into fractals cm, idk bro, stop contradicting yourself. (once more, fractals are already the most rewarding instanced in pve, see you in the new strikes)

Yours  is in question.

It's easy to get into fractals because the content (Fractals of the mists) Awards the thigns you need to actually progress within said content.  Thought this was obvious, but apparently not to you?

Also, bad maths is bad maths regardless of who it's from. You parroting it makes it even worse.

 

Quote

Fractals CM +524.4g, Strikes 0 gold.

Getting 40 MC from Fractals CM 25 runs in one month, 8 runs from Strikes/CMs. Yeeah im definetly gonna enjoy the change, hope you guys do aswell. 🙂 

I guess exotic gear, sigils, runes, food, etc all cost nothing now. 🤦‍♂️
 

9 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

I don't get it. Who is raging here?

Spoiler

Izzy.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

EDIT: Forum bugged and double-posted.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[flog.3485]

23 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Did you seriously include a single one-time available reward as a source of MCoins?

Well my point is: if they allowed many players (current players and new players that are potentially going to stick to Gw2 with EoD to the point of getting the precedent living worlds) to suddenly get a lot more of MCs for not so much investment in terms of gameplay, then the need of keeping the status quo makes no sense at all. 
 

By the time players make it to T4 (talking about new players here) and potentially get to CMs, rewards are gonna feel redundant and not just worth playing, outside of T4 of course because most players are never gonna over quit over liquid gold.

I mean fractals never were only profitable just because players could play activate the challenge mote of only 3 fractals .

[aeris.5846]

3 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Awards the thigns you need to actually progress within said content

No, fracs don't give you the ascended things you need. You have only a little drop rate for ascended armor even when doing T3+. It's only 0.01 from master chest and 0.02 from expert chest. So 0..26 chest for T3 weekly and 1.64 chests per T3+T4 week. You got nothing before T3 in all cases. You got a little more of rings, but mostly you got crappy stats and not changable.
At least before T3, you need to catch your ascended stuff elsewhere. You only start looting or enough gold to buy mats for craft what you need at the point you already stuffed for that content…

And if you plan to get commited with fractals, you can't buy ascended gear from relics because Omnipot + 2+ account augmentation + Fractal God already 258+ days CM+T4+recs.

Edited February 19, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

56 minutes ago, aeris.5846 said:

No, fracs don't give you the ascended things you need. You have only a little drop rate for ascended armor even when doing T3+. It's only 0.01 from master chest and 0.02 from expert chest. So 0..26 chest for T3 weekly and 1.64 chests per T3+T4 week. You got nothing before T3 in all cases. You got a little more of rings, but mostly you got crappy stats and not changable.
At least before T3, you need to catch your ascended stuff elsewhere. You only start looting or enough gold to buy mats for craft what you need at the point you already stuffed for that content…

And if you plan to get commited with fractals, you can't buy ascended gear from relics because Omnipot + 2+ account augmentation + Fractal God already 258+ days CM+T4+recs.

You get pristine that you can spend on rings that are already infused along with accessories and a necklace and all that can be infinitely redone statwise.  You get accessory drops that  you can salvage for the matrices you need.

You get pages from your daily recs (Which you should be doing) to get you these: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractal_Research_Page which can be used to progress even more. 

You can either invest time into farming fractals daily as you progress or money to expedite the process.

Also, suggesting that one doesn't spend their pristine and such from t he get go?  What? You'd earn less pristine and relics per day if you don't progress your personal fractal level.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[aeris.5846]

5 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractal_Research_Page

Yeah, and how I say, you don't want to use a single relic during 258 days to catch the Fractal God title.

And Grandmaster Mark require 500 discipline and tons of mats you don't drop before already 150+ AR to do T4 daily so already fully ascended.

Edited February 19, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 minutes ago, aeris.5846 said:

Yeah, and how I say, you don't want to use a single relic during 258 days to catch the Fractal God title.

 

9 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Also, suggesting that one doesn't spend their pristine and such from t he get go?  What? You'd earn less pristine and relics per day if you don't progress your personal fractal level.

 

4 minutes ago, aeris.5846 said:

And Grandmaster Mark require 500 discipline and tons of mats you don't drop before already 150+ AR to do T4 daily so already fully ascended.

A crafting level you're going to want to get if you're going to actually make any sort of money in this game or do any legendary crafting. 🤔

Also the materials don't drop in fractals?

Bruh.  Grandmaster marks require  the same materials ascended armor does but less.  Just craft your dailies.  You'll get tons of elder wood, thick leather, and mithril from fractals.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[aeris.5846]

Just now, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Also, suggesting that one doesn't spend their pristine and such from t he get go?  What? You'd earn less pristine and relics per day if you don't progress your personal fractal level.

Even if you want to buy ascended with this, it's 800 relic per gear. On T1, you got only ~18 relics per day + 3 pristine so 63 relics per day. So it's 2 weeks for a single piece, around 3 months for a full set. And that without counting Grandmaster Mark 9g each. And you put yourself 3 months more for Fractal God.

[aeris.5846]

10 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You'll get tons of elder wood, thick leather, and mithril from fractals.

If you are already ascended geared and do T4+CM daily on a fast clear yes. Even just T4 nightmare pug is not that worth.

Edited February 19, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 minute ago, aeris.5846 said:

Even if you want to buy ascended with this, it's 800 relic per gear. On T1, you got only ~18 relics per day + 3 pristine so 63 relics per day. So it's 2 weeks for a single piece, around 3 months for a full set. And that without counting Grandmaster Mark 9g each. And you put yourself 3 months more for Fractal God.

You don't really need armor until t3, friend.

 

 

Just now, aeris.5846 said:

If you are already ascended geared and do T4+CM daily yes. Even just T4 is not that worth.

Tell me you don't understand salvaged gear and fractal rewards without telling me you don't understand salvaged  gear and fractal rewards.

[aeris.5846]

11 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

A crafting level you're going to want to get if you're going to actually make any sort of money in this game or do any legendary crafting. 🤔

A crafting level I don't need to start Strike or Raids. Exotic enough, buyable with only karma or some quick dungeons.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Just now, aeris.5846 said:

A crafting level I don't need to start Strike or Raids. Exotic enough, buyable with only karma or some quick dungeons.

But if you don't get the crafting level, you don't need mystic coins or clovers to craft anything legendary either, you get this?

[aeris.5846]

Just now, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

But if you don't get the crafting level, you don't need mystic coins or clovers to craft anything legendary either, you get this?

Say that to my alt? Discipline 0 on all. Looting bunch of MC each day in CM + T4.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Just now, aeris.5846 said:

Say that to my alt? Discipline 0 on all. Looting bunch of MC each day in CM + T4.

So your alt has 0 disciplines maxed out, but is in fractals which means you didn't need to get your crafting maxed out anyways.

So your whole point about requiring  crafting is moot now, eh?

 

But that doesn't matter.  Crafting is part of the progression in this game.

[aeris.5846]

Just now, aeris.5846 said:

Say that to my alt? Discipline 0 on all. Looting bunch of MC each day in CM + T4.

But in all case, that's not the question.

You are new 80 lvl player.

You want to do seriously start strike or raid ? Go Orr, buy exotic armor/trinket with karma, weapon from 2-3 dungeons. 0 craft, 0 discipline, 0g more or less. People can even send you your full set or you can buy it for some gold on TP. Some days, maximum couple of weeks and you are fully geared and can target immediately the maximum rewards possible (even 5 weekly CM raids). Just training and skills after that.
You want to do seriously start fractals ? 500g investment, or 3-4 monthes daily, or 5 weeks HL content for first leggy collection. 100 frac to do to be autonomous to open frac. 258 days to catch fractal god, omnipots. Full achievments for 98-99-100 to be autonomous to open the CMs. And only after that bunch of time you can expect maximum looting.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

41 minutes ago, aeris.5846 said:

But in all case, that's not the question.

You are new 80 lvl player.

You want to do seriously start strike or raid ? Go Orr, buy exotic armor/trinket with karma, weapon from 2-3 dungeons. 0 craft, 0 discipline, 0g more or less. People can even send you your full set or you can buy it for some gold on TP. Some days, maximum couple of weeks and you are fully geared and can target immediately the maximum rewards possible (even 5 weekly CM raids). Just training and skills after that.
You want to do seriously start fractals ? 500g investment, or 3-4 monthes daily, or 5 weeks HL content for first leggy collection. 100 frac to do to be autonomous to open frac. 258 days to catch fractal god, omnipots. Full achievments for 98-99-100 to be autonomous to open the CMs. And only after that bunch of time you can expect maximum looting.

Orr armor costs a lot of karma new players aren't going to have, either.  Can't be salvaged, too, comes in just core attributes.  Nah, see, if someone's going for exotic armor with attributes that they can use, they'll be doing verdant brink for everything but the chestpiece as one meta basically nets you enough airship parts to buy a box.   But also you're missing the point.  You don't need ascended armor until you start doing t4s if you're doing things correctly from t1-t3.

But also you can do strikes  and raids to get ascended armor with no crafting. 🤔 So I guess you technically could get into fractals with 0 craft, 0 discipline, and just a bit of extra gold, but both strikes and raids award a fair bit of liquid gold.

Though I do have to wonder; What new player is going to be able to snag all the gear they need right away?  Sounds like this is a problem for you on your alt account, not an actual problem for new players.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[aeris.5846]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

But also you can do strikes  and raids to get ascended armor with no crafting. 🤔 So I guess you technically could get into fractals with 0 craft, 0 discipline, and just a bit of extra gold, but both strikes and raids award a fair bit of liquid gold.

That's what I say before. You can do full ascended gear in 5 weeks just with 11 raids kill. Or farm strike for stuff. But in all cases it's months before a CM fractal. And a full year just before to be able to pretend for full max loot.

Fresh new lvl 80 player can kill Dhumm CM with karma berzerker stuff the same day he hits lvl 80, after 1 week of game. Or at least start to do weekly FC with 5 CM for max loot immediatly.

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Can't be salvaged, too

Don't see the point for salvaging. This just doesn't block you for doing raid, strike or frac.

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

comes in just core attributes

And it's enough. Berzerker is the main attribute you want for most if not all the content, specially for beginner. You can specialize after for harrier, viper or diviner, when already at full loot potential and only few days for a new full set.

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Sounds like this is a problem for you on your alt account, not an actual problem for new players.

On the contrary. It's not a problem for me, I gear my alt in 5 weeks for 0g because I'm able to do raids. Then looting more than enough for whatever I want to do for any of my chars, class & build.

That's not the case for new player, and specially for the first ascended set you need to catch.

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Orr armor costs a lot of karma new players aren't going to have, either

Full set is 152k karma. Any new lvl 80 char have more than that. Any event at lvl 80 is 675 karma, so 225 events and you are good. In all cases even with 0 karma at lvl 80, it's only handful of days if not hours to do that amount of karma.

On my alt just with exploration for 80 leveling, I got more than 1.5 million.
Just now asking in /m on LA, one new lvl 80 player has more than 1 million karma, another 200k, the last 172k.

Edited February 19, 2022 by aeris.5846

[HotDelirium.7984]

17 hours ago, aeris.5846 said:

Here a perfect illustration of what I say. https://wtf.roflcopter.fr/pics/5srrNu6e/nhrzXat8.png

I go in strike, daily cold war, the content anet want to promote. No kp required on LFG. Here is the result. Buff mostly the same each sub. 3 peoples excluded me have some li/kp (not that much, we speak about a handful of each). You see them immediately.

The 3 skilled people target 40-50% of the SC bench. Can seems not that much but really it's only what is expected for a quite smooth run even in frac/raids. All other are 2-3 times under that. We speak about not even 10% of the potential of their class, doing the same dps as me as HFB… Difference very important even for the same build. One BS top DPS at 19k and the 2nd one only at 8.8k, competing with support. Even basic mecanic was not known, with people running solo with green under them, striking the entire squad, long animated attack not dodged, no depack on bomb, etc.

The game design is flawed in the sense of no where in the entire game does it ever state that in THIS content to be the best of the best you should be reviewing everything about your character when it comes to certain roles. It leaves it up to the wiki and I guess the community to inform and sometimes gatekeep people from their groups. The game itself doesn't build any urgency to any roles; the players do and to be frank , for better or worse many people are not going to confidently listen to strangers about what they should and should not be doing. However, guild wars 2 is so casual and sandbox that people can and will do any content they have access to regardless of understood build metrics.  They will just "sand box" it and join what groups allow them in and just deal with being excluded from others. Until THE GAME comes up with comprehensive solutions we will continue to be subjected to the unreliable ebb and flow social psychology of MMO users.

[Bogdanski.4697]

I'm going to be honest with you, like many players I'm extremely dissapointed about how End-Game Rewards have been terminated for the players that output a lot of effort to learn and improve their gameplay, and instead given to players that enjoy super casual gameplay. I am honestly stopping my daily Cm+T4 run after launch of EoD, because however smalll the chance of MC and regardless the calculations above, that is the only thing that made the difference between Normal Fractals and CMs. Extra Relics are virtually useless without the main material that turns them into clovers. However, if those Strikes CMs are at least 100 times more challenging than the current strikes from the Saga, and if they can give rewards comparable to the super challenging fractal CMs and give us a feeling of completing something truly difficult I am willing to change my mind and try it out. I do hope that you will bring something that will move the hardcore fractal community to strikes. 

As far as the ideea of harder strikes goes, I hope that this will bring a lot more players to raids in the long run, and generally improve the willingness of super casual players to improve their gameplay, learn the importance of boons and use builds that synergise in a group which will ultimately push the developing team to turn more attention towards raids, as right now Raids feel neglected due to the small community, and rewards get kinda wack after you grinded your legendary armour down. Hope to see more raids instances too.

 

TL;DR : Please make EoD strikes challenging in the true sense of the word and allow them to compensate all the loses that hardcore players suffered. 

 

I am all for casual players getting stuff by doing lower skill-pool friendlier strikes, but like anything in life, there should be a difference of reward output between low and high effort. Also please don't forget that the skilled hardcore players set examples and push others to improve. How many people wouldn't be part of the raid community today if it wasn't for snowcrows providing excellent builds and guides?

 

Looking forward to EoD

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, aeris.5846 said:

That's what I say before. You can do full ascended gear in 5 weeks just with 11 raids kill. Or farm strike for stuff. But in all cases it's months before a CM fractal. And a full year just before to be able to pretend for full max loot.

Fresh new lvl 80 player can kill Dhumm CM with karma berzerker stuff the same day he hits lvl 80, after 1 week of game. Or at least start to do weekly FC with 5 CM for max loot immediatly.

Don't see the point for salvaging. This just doesn't block you for doing raid, strike or frac.

And it's enough. Berzerker is the main attribute you want for most if not all the content, specially for beginner. You can specialize after for harrier, viper or diviner, when already at full loot potential and only few days for a new full set.

On the contrary. It's not a problem for me, I gear my alt in 5 weeks for 0g because I'm able to do raids. Then looting more than enough for whatever I want to do for any of my chars, class & build.

That's not the case for new player, and specially for the first ascended set you need to catch.

Full set is 152k karma. Any new lvl 80 char have more than that. Any event at lvl 80 is 675 karma, so 225 events and you are good. In all cases even with 0 karma at lvl 80, it's only handful of days if not hours to do that amount of karma.

On my alt just with exploration for 80 leveling, I got more than 1.5 million.
Just now asking in /m on LA, one new lvl 80 player has more than 1 million karma, another 200k, the last 172k.

Yeah, sure.  Say you could get ascended as easily as you can exotic now. 
What new player is going to

1. Know what build to run
2. What gear to get
3. The mechanics of endgame bosses
4. The Masteries useful in the encoutners
5. ETC?

You have an advantage on your alt because you already know what's up.  A new player won't care.  They'll be having fun for the first thousand or so hours before they even consider putting anything on farm.
 

[aeris.5846]

 

16 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Yeah, sure.  Say you could get ascended as easily as you can exotic now. 
What new player is going to

1. Know what build to run
2. What gear to get
3. The mechanics of endgame bosses
4. The Masteries useful in the encoutners
5. ETC?

You have an advantage on your alt because you already know what's up.  A new player won't care.  They'll be having fun for the first thousand or so hours before they even consider putting anything on farm.

And that's right for strike & raids too. But only fracs need those year before full potential. Raids & strike not.

Fully new 80 player, I can train him in strike and raid. Not on frac CM.

Edited February 19, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, aeris.5846 said:

 

And that's right for strike & raids too. But only fracs need those year before full potential. Raids & strike not.

Fully new 80 player, I can train him in strike and raid. Not on frac CM.

You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

You need to spend a good year in raids to get good.  Raids don't have an ascended gear requirement.  It, instead, has a group composition and experience requirement.  Let's just dump all your newbies with their karma gear into dhuum and see how well they do.

[aeris.5846]

23 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You need to spend a good year in raids to get good

I don't speak about being good or not. Just to be able to go in training.

Some ppl are really good even at start. I personally have a friend of mine very good on PvP and WvW, but never put a toe in raid or frac before. He have ascended gears but for WvW. No problem to start raids immediately when I start guild training.
Quick buy of exotic berzerker stuff, here we go, FC raid each week without trouble, with the same rewards as everybody with the same skill level.

The same in CMs ? Not possible. Need to craft ascended stuff, 162 AR, etc. Can't just take him just once to show the content and let him decide if he loves that or not. Just starting the content and he will be one shotted. And will take 1 year to get the same rewards as mine, even if he is better than me in practice.
Yes, because PvP / WvW, he has enough to directly craft the stuff. But that's not the case for new player. And he was able to go in frac quickly because he did HL/high rewards content before frac. Only frac requires that previous content to be done to have quick access to them. Nor raids, nor strike. Just all plain 80 lvl fresh newcomer can go in raid training or strike training in hours after the 80lvl target. Not in CMs. Period.

And let reword that like this : you can have all world records on all bosses on all CMs, doing your daily run in 10min, if you haven't 1 year daily kills and so fractal god title + all account buff, you loot less than me doing 85% SC bench in tedious 1h run

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by aeris.5846