The Meta (Everyone knows the one) is making me not enjoy this game

[Copperheart.9517]

I've been doing the Meta (Dragon's End) since release. Since the first day. And even with the changes. I still fail every single time. It is starting to make me not want to play this game. I want my turtle. It is a key feature of this new Expansion. It shouldn't be so difficult to obtain and solely based on if the RNG gods decide to acknowledge my presence or not. 

[moonboi.1764]

Yes, the fact you can get only one breakbar during the entire fight, is utter kitten. The hot fixes are a change in the right direction but more is needed I feel. At least have fail safe to guarantee some break bars. 

[Fueki.4753]

This meta is too long and too tedious. On top of that, the RNG is just terrible.

In my opinion, the egg should be awarded for reaching the final phase of the meta, not beating it.

[moonboi.1764]

Or for story completion. 

[MithranArkanere.8957]

This meta has the worst flaw any open world content can have: a few players can purposely make everyone else fail.

There's already people 'selling' successful runs for 400 mystic coins. And how do you ensure people will buy your 400MC run? Make sure you ruin as many of everyone else's runs, to increase the likelihood that someone will give up and pay for yours. 

Even if they solved the egg problem by requiring completing the turtle-related events instead the meta, a few players being able to make things worse for the rest is still a problem, because the problem isn't being unable to get a mount, it's ill-intentioned people getting away with their shenanigans.

They need to take measures to ensure players can actually learn the encounter, and tweaks to prevent players from being detrimental to the fight. 

* The randomness needs to be addressed. The boss can't constantly go from side to side without any hint on how to stop that behavior.  Players keep successfully CCing the boss or taking out the tail only to see the boss swoosh the other side 2 seconds after and rise the tail again without giving any time for damage.
* Instead making the out of body mechanic freeze the fight and having everyone else wait for them, make it happen simultaneously as a side mechanic. Turn it into a mechanic that only gives benefits, never detriments. Players who return would give themselves and other players 10 minute of an effect that adds +1% damage to the boss per stack. The faster they do it, the more stacks they bring back from the 'experience'.  These stacks would accumulate up to 99.

* If a player fails to touch an orb to rise within 5 seconds, they are instantly killed and some other player can use their corresponding jade block to replace them.  The jade blocks on the platform would get an icon to indicate this.  This way bad actors are quickly taken out of the picture whether it's lack of skill or ill intention.  And if it's lack of skill, they can consult other players to improve for the next time, like one can in Silverstates after failing a champion. 
* Players who got the out of body experience and fail would get an effect that prevents them from being selected again for the mechanic for the next 10 minutes, but not those who succeed. This would keep people from using up slots to fail on purpose repeatedly.

[Obtena.7952]

Why does everyone think it's unreasonable to fail the hardest of the newest content????

[Xero the Dark.8230]

11 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Why does everyone think it's unreasonable to fail the hardest of the newest content????

Because it's NOT "hard". It's an illusion of difficulty. If it was just "hard" / difficult it would be fine. We could evolve and learn and move past it. It's an RNG nightmare. It's a false sense of difficulty. If it was just a "hard battle" - it would be acceptable. I don't get why people think this is challenging / fun...the mechanics aren't all bad...I actually like some of the designs for the battle. It SHOULD be hard - it's supposed to be an "epic battle" to end the dragon saga...but it ISNT HARD...it's nearly impossible due to how it's been executed. THAT is the problem. Most of us are good players, we just don't have 50 RAID friends. It's ALL about luck. Which I very clearly do not have. 

So the people who DO have 50+ RAID friends and can plan their groups out are luckier than people like me...and they GET their stupid turtles and brag about it and then say things like "I don't get why you can't handle the difficulty"....because it's NOT difficult...it's rigged. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Xero the Dark.8230

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Xero the Dark.8230 said:

Because it's NOT "hard". It's an illusion of difficulty. If it was just "hard" / difficult it would be fine. We could evolve and learn and move past it. It's an RNG nightmare. It's a false sense of difficulty. If it was just a "hard battle" - it would be acceptable. I don't get why people think this is challenging / fun...the mechanics aren't all bad...I actually like some of the designs for the battle. It SHOULD be hard - it's supposed to be an "epic battle" to end the dragon saga...but it ISNT HARD...it's nearly impossible due to how it's been executed. THAT is the problem. Most of us are good players, we just don't have 50 RAID friends. It's ALL about luck. Which I very clearly do not have. 

I'm not going to argue if it's hard or not ... my point is that OBVIOUSLY such a thing requires some failed attempts to learn, just like every other meta event ever. People complaining the event makes their game experience 'bad' because they fail when content is new (and yes, it's hard for LOTS of people) That's just weird. 

[Xero the Dark.8230]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not going to argue if it's hard or not ... my point is that OBVIOUSLY such a thing requires some failed attempts to learn, just like every other meta event ever. People complaining the event makes their game experience 'bad' because they fail when content is new (and yes, it's hard for LOTS of people) That's just weird. 

We shouldn't even have to argue...I'm not usually like this at all...but the way this was executed is making this community toxic. That's a problem. I love Guild Wars 2...but decisions were made for this battle that I do not understand.  Instead of apologizing and fixing the mistake, ANet is leaving it to stew for the entire weekend. That's a problem. As I said...it would be fine if it was just "hard" / a learning experience...but it's not something you can learn from. You literally just play the turtle lottery over and over again until you get lucky. That's supposed to give us a feeling of accomplishment??? This is not like every other meta event...this one is rigged specifically for failure. 

Ok, the thing is...yes it's new content...but it's not upsetting because of the bugs / mechanics we aren't used to yet...it's upsetting because of the design decisions...which the devs are apparently standing by firmly. This COULD have been a truly great battle...it still could be...but apparently the devs are standing behind the elitist raiders viewpoint? I don't get it. This isn't "challenging" content...some of us are just really not lucky. I don't have time to spend my entire weekend playing turtle lottery. 

[Obtena.7952]

17 minutes ago, Xero the Dark.8230 said:

We shouldn't even have to argue...

True, because it's way too early to call this a game design problem. 

Quote

Ok, the thing is...yes it's new content...but it's not upsetting because of the bugs / mechanics we aren't used to yet...it's upsetting because of the design decisions...which the devs are apparently standing by firmly. This COULD have been a truly great battle...it still could be...but apparently the devs are standing behind the elitist raiders viewpoint? I don't get it. This isn't "challenging" content...some of us are just really not lucky. I don't have time to spend my entire weekend playing turtle lottery. 

They stand by them because it's too early to say this is a content design problem; nothing different about the design of this meta than any other we have had. And it's absolutely weird to say Anet is standing by elitist raiders POV. What is it about the meta event that is 'elitist raider' feeling? I don't see it.  It's not a problem you don't have the entire weekend to play turtle lottery ... this content doesn't have an 'end date' on it. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Xero the Dark.8230]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

True, because what's the issue here isn't the game design ... it's simply that this is new content people need to figure out to be successful. Just like EVERY other meta event in the game. 

They stand by them because the design isn't a problem; nothing different about the design of this meta than any other we have had. And it's absolutely weird to say Anet is standing by elitist raiders POV. What is it about the meta event that is 'elitist raider' feeling? I don't see it.  It's not a problem you don't have the entire weekend to play turtle lottery ... this content doesn't have an 'end date' on it. 

Again, it is not just like every other meta. This one was designed to fail. It's not something that can be "figured out" in it's current state. We've already figured out the strategies / basics to the fight. The problem is the random luck aspect - 50 random people of varying skill levels and equipment...with a fight that wasn't designed with that in mind. That's not "a hard meta"...that's blocking players who do their best...that's not "difficulty".  It's rigged. 

Even ANet themselves specifically said they designed this differently than any other meta events...it's literally RIGHT here:

"The Jade Sea meta was designed to be the ultimate open world finale, an epic conclusion to the 10-year Elder Dragon story arc. To accomplish this, we challenged our own conventions for creating open world content to provide an encounter unlike anything ever seen before in Guild Wars 2."

I said *apparently* they are standing behind the elitist raiders POV...that's how it seems. They "fixed" the green circle mechanic in a way that benefits the raiders (who were HAPPY with this rigged battle to begin with) instead of fixing it for those of us who are failing. 

You say the content doesn't have an "end date" - but if the toxicity remains and continues to grow in the community this meta will DIE OUT. Then no one will have the turtle. That's what the LUCKY elitist raiders who already HAVE their turtles want - that's why there were people INTENTIONALLY ruining the event for those of us who don't have ours yet. They want to feel special. They don't want us to ALL get our turtles. Then they won't feel special anymore. So they ruin it for us. It's also the reason for the "This battle is just hard, get better at it" arguments. 😕 

[Tails.9372]

52 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Why does everyone think it's unreasonable to fail the hardest of the newest content????

Because they don't think it being "the hardest of the newest content" is justified which is a reasonable position to take as A-Net was pretty upfront about SMs being the new "go-to" place for hard challenging content.

If one wants to have a challenging fight atop of the Harvest Temple then there is already a SM for that (with a CM to be released soon enough).

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Because they don't think it being "the hardest of the newest content" is justified which is a reasonable position to take as A-Net was pretty upfront about SMs being the new "go-to" place for hard challenging content.

If one wants to have a challenging fight atop of the Harvest Temple then there is already a SM for that (with a CM to be released soon enough).

That doesn't make sense to say  people are justified in their complaints that the content is hard. It's not any harder than DS was on it's 5th day after release, or any other meta. People still failing Serpent's Ire most the time. 

The problem isn't the hard content ... we know that. That's almost absurd to say people don't think it's reasonable to have hard content in OW. We all know the REAL issue with this meta. Not sure why people aren't more honest about it. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

18 minutes ago, Xero the Dark.8230 said:

Again, it is not just like every other meta. This one was designed to fail. It's not something that can be "figured out" in it's current state. We've already figured out the strategies / basics to the fight. The problem is the random luck aspect - 50 random people of varying skill levels and equipment...with a fight that wasn't designed with that in mind. That's not "a hard meta"...that's blocking players who do their best...that's not "difficulty".  It's rigged. 

Even ANet themselves specifically said they designed this differently than any other meta events...it's literally RIGHT here:

"The Jade Sea meta was designed to be the ultimate open world finale, an epic conclusion to the 10-year Elder Dragon story arc. To accomplish this, we challenged our own conventions for creating open world content to provide an encounter unlike anything ever seen before in Guild Wars 2."

I said *apparently* they are standing behind the elitist raiders POV...that's how it seems. They "fixed" the green circle mechanic in a way that benefits the raiders (who were HAPPY with this rigged battle to begin with) instead of fixing it for those of us who are failing. 

You say the content doesn't have an "end date" - but if the toxicity remains and continues to grow in the community this meta will DIE OUT. Then no one will have the turtle. That's what the LUCKY elitist raiders who already HAVE their turtles want - that's why there were people INTENTIONALLY ruining the event for those of us who don't have ours yet. They want to feel special. They don't want us to ALL get our turtles. Then they won't feel special anymore. So they ruin it for us. It's also the reason for the "This battle is just hard, get better at it" arguments. 😕 

This isn't an argument worth having here. These complaints don't make sense not even a week into the expansion.  Come back in a few weeks when more people get familiar with the content. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Copperheart.9517]

Just to update. I finally got it. But guess what I had to do? I had to join a streamers run to get it. That was pumping full condi damage and Alacrity. And even then it was because we got SUPER lucky with multiple CC phases and little tails. It is RNG evil and I will never go back to the map with the current state. Not even to get the memories of Aurene to craft my legendary. Its just not happening. I'd rather fish my self into oblivion then return to that map. 

[Islyn.8019]

Wait until people finally clear the meta, and realise they have to do a strike, possible several times, to get an item to actually get the turtle.
That’s gonna be interesting reading.  🙂

[Islyn.8019]

20 hours ago, Copperheart.9517 said:

I've been doing the Meta (Dragon's End) since release. Since the first day. And even with the changes. I still fail every single time. It is starting to make me not want to play this game. I want my turtle. It is a key feature of this new Expansion. It shouldn't be so difficult to obtain and solely based on if the RNG gods decide to acknowledge my presence or not. 

You’re also gonna have to do a complicated strike, to complete the collection for the turtle mount. Meta is not the only gate.

  

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Copperheart.9517 said:

Just to update. I finally got it. But guess what I had to do? I had to join a streamers run to get it. That was pumping full condi damage and Alacrity. And even then it was because we got SUPER lucky with multiple CC phases and little tails. It is RNG evil and I will never go back to the map with the current state. Not even to get the memories of Aurene to craft my legendary. Its just not happening. I'd rather fish my self into oblivion then return to that map. 

So in otherwords ... people that knew what they were doing completed the content and it's just a matter of time before it's commonplace to complete DE meta, just like every other meta. Therefore, no reason to change it. Perfect.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[wayneericgouin.9371]

That's the biggest misconception about this, it's not mechanically difficult at all. None of the working as intended mechanics are any more difficult than any other. It's the random nature of her movements around the platform and the fact that she doesn't have set damage windows, I've personally seen her move to tail phase as soon as she does a break bar phase..that shouldn't happen. Again, nothing about the mechanics is terrible, it's that random elements that make it frustrating.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

34 minutes ago, wayneericgouin.9371 said:

That's the biggest misconception about this, it's not mechanically difficult at all. None of the working as intended mechanics are any more difficult than any other. It's the random nature of her movements around the platform and the fact that she doesn't have set damage windows, I've personally seen her move to tail phase as soon as she does a break bar phase..that shouldn't happen. Again, nothing about the mechanics is terrible, it's that random elements that make it frustrating.

Last round I did had her both her break bar phases happen during tail phase.  I've wasted some ten plus hours on this atrocity just to get a feature that was heavily advertised as a key aspect of the expac.  This already is getting people to demand refunds.

[Okhu.7948]

So stop doing it. Don't do things you don't enjoy.

[Zephire.8049]

1 hour ago, wayneericgouin.9371 said:

That's the biggest misconception about this, it's not mechanically difficult at all. None of the working as intended mechanics are any more difficult than any other. It's the random nature of her movements around the platform and the fact that she doesn't have set damage windows, I've personally seen her move to tail phase as soon as she does a break bar phase..that shouldn't happen. Again, nothing about the mechanics is terrible, it's that random elements that make it frustrating.

Exactly. None of the mechanics are hard (possibly challenging and do require learning, but not technically hard), it's the randomness of it all and how no one thought to code cooldowns into the fight or have it so she doesn't have both the tail and breakbar up at the same time.

At this point I've done about 20 runs—all failed—and only a handful didn't have her constantly switch sides and/or have the tail and breakbar up at the same time. Or have a break bar succeed only for her to swap sides thus rendering the exposed debuff pointless, especially when her tail goes up the moment people reach her head and have to run all the way back to the other side of the platform.

Plus it's nigh impossible for solo players to get into organized maps due to the map capacity limit and how LFG doesn't mark listings that are in full instances. It's RNG to get into a map that's seriously attempting it, it's RNG that you'll be in a group attempting it with people who know what they're doing, and it's RNG if she'll stay in one place long enough for people to do more than a couple auto attacks before having to run to the opposite side of the platform (and maybe run all the way back because, yet again, RNG). RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG is not fun or engaging.

[Copperheart.9517]

5 hours ago, Islyn.8019 said:

You’re also gonna have to do a complicated strike, to complete the collection for the turtle mount. Meta is not the only gate.

  

I've done all the other stuff I needed to get the turtle. I know the meta isn't all there is to the game. I've done the strike. I actually enjoyed it quite a lot, then again it had an actual layout. With mechanics I could learn and replicate. Plus I didn't rely on 40 other people to do it perfectly as well. PLUS you know it didn't go invulnerable for a full min running around the platform. 

 

The meta is quite literally insane. You can do the thing perfectly and still fail, due to RNG. THAT is the issue I have with it. Not the difficulty. If it was just pure difficulty you could learn it and get through it. As it is now. You can not. 

[Zigbert.6520]

I really really really really really hate this meta. I spent my entire day doing this. 2 attempts were bugged because Captain Fe likes to run into a wall. And the other 4 attempts were just not good enough. All in full Servers, all coordinated. 10 hours spent playing this stupid game and nothing to show for it other then high blood pressure. /rage

[White Knight.5970]

Sorry Anet I love this game its my favorite mmo that I've put the most time,effort,money in too but this meta needs fixing. I honestly don't want to play anymore when the 2nd most exciting thing I was looking forward too is essentially locked behind a raid wall, I can't even find myself to finish the story. I might as well take this time to catch up on ff14, hopefully when some changes get made I'll come back.