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Please understand that Reaper Shroud is a subpar defense to begin with...

EremiteAngel.9765

By EremiteAngel.9765
in Necromancer

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EremiteAngel.9765

EremiteAngel.9765

Posted
Posted

In light of the recent changes, I'll attempt to explain why Reaper Shroud needs some baseline changes desperately...

Other classes have access to:

  • Invulnerabilities
  • Blocks
  • Strong overtime sustain heals
  • Boons spam
  • Evade spams
  • Invisibilities
  • Teleports / Blinks
  • etc.

Reaper has access to:

  • Shroud

Unlike the defenses available on other classes, Reaper Shroud is a non-scaling form of defense that gets destroyed faster the more damage it takes.

 

There are 2 significant changes recently that really wrecks a Reaper's ability to defend himself.

 

Shroud Cooldown reduction changed from 7 seconds traited to 10 seconds

This is a nerf because Reaper's main form of defense is effectively left on a 10 seconds cooldown the moment he leaves Shroud. For 10 seconds, we are extremely vulnerable. In that period, we need to chain dodges, skills, utilities, to survive. To make matters worse, most of our weapon skills and utilities are offensive in nature. Even the more defensive ones are subpar compared to other classes.

Look at how other classes can chain evades, blinks, blocks, invulnerability etc. for long periods of damage immunity while doing damage at the same time and compare that to a Reaper losing his main form of defense for 10 seconds.

 

Reaper Shroud: Increased life-force consumption rate from 3% per second to 5% per second.

Shroud decay was a terrible idea to begin with when you consider that Shroud is a non-scaling defense. To increase the decay just makes things even less defendable. Shroud gets destroyed even faster now when enemies are piling their damage on you and you add the increased decay rate to that mix.

Not just that, but the decay is pegged to a percentage, meaning added vitality won't help us much here because everything goes at a percentage and not a fixed shroud amount.

 

What is the idea behind Shroud? Are we supposed to camp shroud or flash in and out of Shroud to burst?

When you compare both the recent changes above, I'm really left puzzled over what the idea is behind the Shroud mechanic.

  • If we're supposed to flash in and out of Shroud to burst, then we are robbed of using it as our main form of Defense when the cooldown is 10 seconds which is too long.
  • If we're supposed to camp in Shroud to do damage and defend at the same time, then the decay makes it terrible because Shroud doesn't scale against damage taken and it is easily kited

 

Quoting from the recent patch notes:

We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense.

  • What is the point of increasing damage output when enemies can kite our Shroud form easily and we can't land the damage?
  • What is the point of increasing Shroud damage when we now can't stay in Shroud as long as before, allowing enemies shorter windows to negate our Shroud damage and kite us or just burst us out of Shroud.

More damage at the cost of some defense? Our defense is already terrible to begin with.

When you consider that we have to spec glassier power builds to match the DPS of other classes but not have access to a scaling defense, and the shroud duration gets nerfed for even lesser shroud uptime and even worse defense by extension...and you add the lost of the 7 seconds Shroud CD recharge to the mix, effectively locking us out of our main form of defense for 10 whole seconds...

 

Please make these baseline

  • make Shroud CD 7 seconds
  • Remove shroud decay totally
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HansBRZ.3284

HansBRZ.3284

Posted
Posted

Well, I gotta say I agree with u.. I just tried PVP after patch.. the damage was great, but Shroud was over waaaaaaay quicker, and died a lot more than before... Realistically, I hope at least they reverse Shroud decay, but I'm dreaming for decay to end... well, one can dream..

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Oldirtbeard.9834

Oldirtbeard.9834

Posted
Posted

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:In light of the recent changes, I'll attempt to explain why Reaper Shroud needs some baseline changes desperately...

Other classes have access to:

  • Invulnerabilities
  • Blocks
  • Strong overtime sustain heals
  • Boons spam
  • Evade spams
  • Invisibilities
  • Teleports / Blinks
  • etc.

Reaper has access to:

  • Shroud

Unlike the defenses available on other classes, Reaper Shroud is a non-scaling form of defense that gets destroyed faster the more damage it takes.

 

There are 2 significant changes recently that really wrecks a Reaper's ability to defend himself.

 

Shroud Cooldown reduction changed from 7 seconds traited to 10 seconds

This is a nerf because Reaper's main form of defense is effectively left on a 10 seconds cooldown the moment he leaves Shroud. For 10 seconds, we are extremely vulnerable. In that period, we need to chain dodges, skills, utilities, to survive.
To make matters worse, most of our weapon skills and utilities are offensive in nature.
Even the more defensive ones are subpar compared to other classes.

Look at how other classes can chain evades, blinks, blocks, invulnerability etc. for long periods of damage immunity while doing damage at the same time and compare that to a Reaper losing his main form of defense for 10 seconds.

 

Reaper Shroud: Increased life-force consumption rate from 3% per second to 5% per second.

Shroud decay was a terrible idea to begin with when you consider that Shroud is a non-scaling defense. To increase the decay just makes things even less defendable. Shroud gets destroyed even faster now when enemies are piling their damage on you and you add the increased decay rate to that mix.

Not just that, but the decay is pegged to a percentage, meaning added vitality won't help us much here because everything goes at a percentage and not a fixed shroud amount.

 

What is the idea behind Shroud? Are we supposed to camp shroud or flash in and out of Shroud to burst?

When you compare both the recent changes above, I'm really left puzzled over what the idea is behind the Shroud mechanic.
  • If we're supposed to flash in and out of Shroud to burst, then we are robbed of using it as our main form of Defense when the cooldown is 10 seconds which is too long.
  • If we're supposed to camp in Shroud to do damage and defend at the same time, then the decay makes it terrible because Shroud doesn't scale against damage taken and it is easily kited

 

Quoting from the recent patch notes:

We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense.
  • What is the point of increasing damage output when enemies can kite our Shroud form easily and we can't land the damage?
  • What is the point of increasing Shroud damage when we now can't stay in Shroud as long as before, allowing enemies shorter windows to negate our Shroud damage and kite us or just burst us out of Shroud.

More damage at the cost of
some defense
? Our defense is already terrible to begin with.

When you consider that we have to spec glassier power builds to match the DPS of other classes but not have access to a scaling defense, and the shroud duration gets nerfed for even lesser shroud uptime and even worse defense by extension...and you add the lost of the 7 seconds Shroud CD recharge to the mix, effectively locking us out of our main form of defense for 10 whole seconds...

 

Please make these baseline
  • make Shroud CD 7 seconds
  • Remove shroud decay totally

lmao, I don't know how you've been playing your Reaper but I use Wells to keep my self up usually, ironically since grabbing the Signet trait and going Sigs across the board I'm finding my durability is fine and I'm literally using Shroud for bursting.

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Ara.4569

Ara.4569

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I like where the redesign patch is going, but it's too slow. They should go all the way: completely remove the ability for shroud to soak up damage.And at the same time, give us access to what was denied because of it (pretty much everything) when it was not nerfed hard like all our heals and most of our sustain traits.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Other classes have access to:

  • Invulnerabilities
  • Blocks
  • Strong overtime sustain heals
  • Boons spam
  • Evade spams
  • Invisibilities
  • Teleports / Blinks
  • etc.

Reaper has access to:

  • Shroud

Unlike the defenses available on other classes, Reaper Shroud is a non-scaling form of defense that gets destroyed faster the more damage it takes.Too big for a signature. :(

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Zan.9861

Zan.9861

Posted
Posted

So we have repeat after "balance" patch before PoF, I guess they should call it "reaper poof!", but serously I want to know who of game designer hates necro so much? is this because we can't make rainbow like eles? I don't get it. :disappointed:

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Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Posted
Posted

@Galmac.4680 said:Yes, necros have been and still are the unbeloved children of ANet... wondering that the class still exists. Meh. At least we love the necros

Yes, [insert class name] have been and still are the unbeloved children of ANet... wondering that the class still exists. Meh. At least we love the [insert class name]

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ilmau.9781

ilmau.9781

Posted
Posted

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:In light of the recent changes, I'll attempt to explain why Reaper Shroud needs some baseline changes desperately...

Other classes have access to:

  • Invulnerabilities
  • Blocks
  • Strong overtime sustain heals
  • Boons spam
  • Evade spams
  • Invisibilities
  • Teleports / Blinks
  • etc.

Reaper has access to:

  • Shroud

Unlike the defenses available on other classes, Reaper Shroud is a non-scaling form of defense that gets destroyed faster the more damage it takes.

 

There are 2 significant changes recently that really wrecks a Reaper's ability to defend himself.

 

Shroud Cooldown reduction changed from 7 seconds traited to 10 seconds

This is a nerf because Reaper's main form of defense is effectively left on a 10 seconds cooldown the moment he leaves Shroud. For 10 seconds, we are extremely vulnerable. In that period, we need to chain dodges, skills, utilities, to survive.
To make matters worse, most of our weapon skills and utilities are offensive in nature.
Even the more defensive ones are subpar compared to other classes.

Look at how other classes can chain evades, blinks, blocks, invulnerability etc. for long periods of damage immunity while doing damage at the same time and compare that to a Reaper losing his main form of defense for 10 seconds.

 

Reaper Shroud: Increased life-force consumption rate from 3% per second to 5% per second.

Shroud decay was a terrible idea to begin with when you consider that Shroud is a non-scaling defense. To increase the decay just makes things even less defendable. Shroud gets destroyed even faster now when enemies are piling their damage on you and you add the increased decay rate to that mix.

Not just that, but the decay is pegged to a percentage, meaning added vitality won't help us much here because everything goes at a percentage and not a fixed shroud amount.

 

What is the idea behind Shroud? Are we supposed to camp shroud or flash in and out of Shroud to burst?

When you compare both the recent changes above, I'm really left puzzled over what the idea is behind the Shroud mechanic.
  • If we're supposed to flash in and out of Shroud to burst, then we are robbed of using it as our main form of Defense when the cooldown is 10 seconds which is too long.
  • If we're supposed to camp in Shroud to do damage and defend at the same time, then the decay makes it terrible because Shroud doesn't scale against damage taken and it is easily kited

 

Quoting from the recent patch notes:

We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense.
  • What is the point of increasing damage output when enemies can kite our Shroud form easily and we can't land the damage?
  • What is the point of increasing Shroud damage when we now can't stay in Shroud as long as before, allowing enemies shorter windows to negate our Shroud damage and kite us or just burst us out of Shroud.

More damage at the cost of
some defense
? Our defense is already terrible to begin with.

When you consider that we have to spec glassier power builds to match the DPS of other classes but not have access to a scaling defense, and the shroud duration gets nerfed for even lesser shroud uptime and even worse defense by extension...and you add the lost of the 7 seconds Shroud CD recharge to the mix, effectively locking us out of our main form of defense for 10 whole seconds...

 

Please make these baseline
  • make Shroud CD 7 seconds
  • Remove shroud decay totally

This post should be stick as Forum Announcement.

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dceptaconroy.7928

dceptaconroy.7928

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Im reading a few peeps spouting now we just cant "camp" in shroud and dont have access to a "save me" button. Righto heros, so wheres the defense? Wheres the dmg mitigation where are the escapes where? Can we also spew out issues with other classes bunkering down/blocking/invuln..come on get it together what do we have. Do half of the heads out here even play the different facets of the game or are they solely dominating orr chooks around paggas elder farm. Crikey!

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EremiteAngel.9765

EremiteAngel.9765

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@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Im reading a few peeps spouting now we just cant "camp" in shroud and dont have access to a "save me" button. Righto heros, so wheres the defense? Wheres the dmg mitigation where are the escapes where? Can we also spew out issues with other classes bunkering down/blocking/invuln..come on get it together what do we have. Do half of the heads out here even play the different facets of the game or are they solely dominating orr chooks around paggas elder farm. Crikey!

I couldn't have said this better.

I was thinking maybe only WvW Reapers were experiencing this lack of shroud uptime but apparently others are feeling it too in PvE content.

It drains so fast with even just one enemy doing damage to us that we barely have time to chain one shroud rotation. Imagine if more enemies are hitting you.

Like Roy mentioned above, what happens when we lose our shroud? Death. We got almost no defensive option outside of shroud that is comparable to other classes. And trust me, shroud goes FAST.

Putting aside group fights which is almost suicidal to do so now as a Reaper, What I've been experiencing for solo fights is as below.

When each class sees me entering shroud to burst, they only need to use one defensive option because my shroud uptime is pathetically Low:

  • Warrior = on Ensure pain for damage immunity while blasting me out of shroud.
  • Guardian = on F3 shield block while blasting me out of shroud, or F2 kite away
  • Mesmer/thief = any option they choose. Invis, blink away, block, F4, anything.
  • Etc.

They only need to activate one defensive option out of the gazillion options they have to negate shroud burst and then I'm out of shroud. I got no defense worth mentioning after I lose my shroud in the blink of an eye.

This patch took away our only subpar defensive option for an easily negated offensive option and gave us no other decent means to defend ourselves in return.

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NecroSummonsMors.7816

NecroSummonsMors.7816

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Imo the problem is how Anet want us to use Shroud. Right now seems they want us to flash shroud to get all the benefits from entering and exiting from it and use it as a burst tool, but they don't allow us to use it that way. I try to elaborate: Anet if you want us to flash shroud than we've to have it really accessible that means on a low cooldown and with the possibility to get life force really really fast, otherwise it doesn't make sense. So if shroud has to become our burst tool than you need to really compesate on the defence mechanics, ( for example gives at least 1 invuln for short period on decent cooldown [spectral armor could be one as also "Rise!" could be a good too)(edit: a good idea would also be to make spectral walk to give us evade for 2s upon entering and also give it when we teleport).If instead Anet want us to camp Shroud than all the changes they're making don't make sense too, because instead of being a good defence sponge/ set of skill to burst, it has become a temporary stage for dmg without the capabilities to defend us since it melt too fast from dmg.

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dceptaconroy.7928

dceptaconroy.7928

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Im reading a few peeps spouting now we just cant "camp" in shroud and dont have access to a "save me" button. Righto heros, so wheres the defense? Wheres the dmg mitigation where are the escapes where? Can we also spew out issues with other classes bunkering down/blocking/invuln..come on get it together what do we have. Do half of the heads out here even play the different facets of the game or are they solely dominating orr chooks around paggas elder farm. Crikey!

I couldn't have said this better.

I was thinking maybe only WvW Reapers were experiencing this lack of shroud uptime but apparently others are feeling it too in PvE content.

It drains so fast with even just one enemy doing damage to us that we barely have time to chain one shroud rotation. Imagine if more enemies are hitting you.

Like Roy mentioned above, what happens when we lose our shroud? Death. We got almost no defensive option outside of shroud that is comparable to other classes. And trust me, shroud goes FAST.

Putting aside group fights which is almost suicidal to do so now as a Reaper, What I've been experiencing for solo fights is as below.

When each class sees me entering shroud to burst, they only need to use one defensive option because my shroud uptime is pathetically Low:
  • Warrior = on Ensure pain for damage immunity while blasting me out of shroud.
  • Guardian = on F3 shield block while blasting me out of shroud, or F2 kite away
  • Mesmer/thief = any option they choose. Invis, blink away, block, F4, anything.
  • Etc.

They only need to activate one defensive option out of the gazillion options they have to negate shroud burst and then I'm out of shroud. I got no defense worth mentioning after I lose my shroud in the blink of an eye.

This patch took away our only subpar defensive option for an easily negated offensive option and gave us no other decent means to defend ourselves in return.

Cheers Eremite, thanks for taking the time and everyone else who has to show the exacts that i was eluding to. I've just run outta steam with this poop. If these heads at Anet truely want to make shroud as they now see it to be - main dps, lets go nuts and get 1 block or 1 invuln or 1 something to replace what shroud provided. Lets go!

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Nimon.7840

Nimon.7840

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Best thing right now would be to delete necros from gameSure we can get protection from wells traited, but while we stand in our wells, enemys are just waiting outside or still are able to kill us from range.We only had 2 really defensive skills: spectral armor with now has a fking high cooldown. And shroud, which isnt a defensive option anymore. Its not even an offensive option, because against good players, you wont be able to use the shroud properly, cause they will just burst it away.

And for raids its still not viable. None of the necro specializations is.

What do the devs want us to do with necro? Play minionmaster to afk farm? - oh wait. Thats forbidden as well.So did you even think about the consequences of these changes?

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ilmau.9781

ilmau.9781

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i keep testing and there is no way you can stay alive in WvW zergs with the reaper as it is now, there are still a few stats combination i have to try but i am not really positive about, i tested all the tanky setup and as i said in many other threads now you have to choose if being a useless 0 DPS class that stay alive or being a decent DPS dealer rallybot.

G fucking G

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Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

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From my perspective, shroud is only an absorber of damage. Necromancer's other defenses deserve attention by both players and the balance team.

For a Necromancer, chill, cripple, poison, fear, blind, and weakness are the other half of defense. Every profession has at least two dodges, with or without vigor or any other boon that offers defensive assistance, but Necromancer is more reliant upon impairing conditions than any other profession.

Rather than focusing solely on shroud, consider Necro defenses holistically and include conditions in the discussion.

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Zoltreez.6435

Zoltreez.6435

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@Anchoku.8142 said:From my perspective, shroud is only an absorber of damage. Necromancer's other defenses deserve attention by both players and the balance team.

For a Necromancer, chill, cripple, poison, fear, blind, and weakness are the other half of defense. Every profession has at least two dodges, with or without vigor or any other boon that offers defensive assistance, but Necromancer is more reliant upon impairing conditions than any other profession.

Rather than focusing solely on shroud, consider Necro defenses holistically and include conditions in the discussion.

what necro need is Either Immunes or Blocks or both on some weapon skills if possible...... and some damn mobility...... you know stuff every other class is choke full of and literally spamming...

also a Buff to shroud as a whole.... Less CD less degen etc because right now the entire shroud is a joke....

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