Strongholds and Ranked PvP Future

[Ragebru.1397]

For nearly 10 years now, we have been doing the same thing in ranked PvP, and I for one would love to see an evolution in PvP much like League of Legends (with frequent updates), World of Warcraft (with new game modes), and many other competitive PvP scenes do these days. I want change, I want a mix up. No more fighting for the same 3 nodes over and over again. No more falling to the mercy of bunker metas and hunkering down on a point for 10 minutes over and over again. 

What I'd like to see, is an addition of strongholds to the ranked scene. Branching away from the monotonous conquest grind. Ultimately this could restore some interest in the sPvP scene, while also allowing other classes/metas/playstyles to flourish. The foundation for the stronghold game mode was set in place a long time ago, the content is there, the design is there. Even if it's just a mini-season (like 2v2/3v3), which I hope it would gain more traction, it would still be a great way for the devs to test the community's response. Call it nostalgia, but the mist champions remind me of henchmen from GW1- and I feel as though their design and concepts are being wasted. 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Ranked stronghold would be terrible because there are multiple strategies that break it. For instance, support is way too strong because you need NPCs to do the objective for you. So a team of 5 support / condi hybrid builds can just bulldoze the map purely because you can't kill them or the NPCs and they will just auto win once they reach the other side of the map.

[myun.6395]

Just now, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Ranked stronghold would be terrible because there are multiple strategies that break it. For instance, support is way too strong because you need NPCs to do the objective for you. So a team of 5 support / condi hybrid builds can just bulldoze the map purely because you can't kill them or the NPCs and they will just auto win once they reach the other side of the map.

Just delete the gamemode and make 1v1v1 deathmatchs, capture the relic, domination, similar to ESO pvp battlegrounds. Separate soloQ from 5manQ, add cool account bound rewards which wont allow match manipulation for bots etc and get population and an healthier pvp game.

[Ragebru.1397]

9 minutes ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

So a team of 5 support / condi hybrid builds can just bulldoze the map purely because you can't kill them or the NPCs and they will just auto win once they reach the other side of the map.

You act as though we don't see teams oriented around bunkers and 1 roamer already. How about the AT with 5 scourge? 

 

Realistcally we'd probably see 2 supports, 2 dps, and 1 roamer to run supply. It's also a lot harder for a support and their team to stay grouped when there isn't a big glowing circle telling everyone where to stand. Sure, I'm basing this off the idea of people solo queueing, but that's another discussion. 

 

edit: they could also just cut healing ability for NPC's, and limit supporting NPC's to stunbreaks/swiftness

Edited April 1, 2022 by Ragebru.1397

[Ragebru.1397]

18 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

add cool account bound rewards which wont allow match manipulation for bots etc

so many botting issues would have been fixed if they just made it to where normals gave the same monetary rewards as ranked.

[Kuma.1503]

On 4/1/2022 at 12:07 AM, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Ranked stronghold would be terrible because there are multiple strategies that break it. For instance, support is way too strong because you need NPCs to do the objective for you. So a team of 5 support / condi hybrid builds can just bulldoze the map purely because you can't kill them or the NPCs and they will just auto win once they reach the other side of the map.

This works in theory but not in practice. 

The major flaw with this plan is the reliance on NPCs. One person can push just as fast as 5 people. You just need a build capable of nuking the guards before they can one shot the doorbreakers. 

Holosmith is the ideal candidate for this. They can superspeed the doorbreakers to get a lead in the push. They can 1v1 if someone tries to stop them, and they can stealth doorbreakers past the guards in a pinch with Toss elixir S. 

the remaining 4 players on your team only need to stall the enemy push for you to win, and there's a lot of ways you can accomplish that even  without killing anyone. 

You can pick a fight near guards, and buy the guards just enough time to one shot their doorbreakers (they will always focus them over players).

You can have a very strong 1v1 build camp trebuchet and spam their npcs to death. You frequently see trapper DH/Druid players doing this.

If all else fails and you can't kill their npcs even with 4 people suiciding into the enemy team, just stall inside your base with your lord, and 9 times out of 10 the defending team will win the teamfight with lord. At that point your solo pusher could have easily won the game.

The lord + npcs simply hit too hard. If your team can set up a good stunlock before the lord does his pull attack, the lord will wipe the enemy team for you. I've lost count of how may times I've seen a team tunnel on the teamfight, get pulled by the lord and all go into downstate.

 

All that being said, my favorite strat for winning in stronghold is the opposite of a 5 bunker comp. It's 2 high dps classes pushing together (one or both brings superspeed for the doorbreakers), and you bulldoze down the lord before anyone can react. I've had streaks of victories where my games lasted less than 4 minutes by doing this. The enemy team will need to play defense in order to stop this from happening, but it's rare that they send more than 2 people to contest a push. If they send anyone at all. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Ragebru.1397]

7 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

All that being said, my favorite strat for winning in stronghold is the opposite of a 5 bunker comp. It's 2 high dps classes pushing together (one or both brings superspeed for the doorbreakers), and you bulldoze down the lord before anyone can react. I've had streaks of victories where my games lasted less than 4 minutes by doing this. The enemy team will need to play defense in order to stop this from happening, but it's rare that they send more than 2 people to contest a push. If they send anyone at all. 

That's what I love about Strongholds, there are so many different ways to win. I think the variety it would bring would be huge for sPvP. 

Strongholds promote a more fluid kind of PvP in my opinion. It forces teams to take risks, and really allows for individuals to perform to the best of their ability. It peels away from the grueling bunker meta and promotes playstyle and build diversity.

[Loboling.5293]

I'd be very happy with new modes for ranked. I know the concern is splitting the PvP player base, but I think with more variety in modes, there would actually be more players. I barely PvP at all these days, mostly due to bad balance over many years, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't also because of playing the same mode for thousands of games gets a little stale.

[Morwath.9817]

Personaly I don't remember when I qued last time for ranked. Probably some 2v2 last year. Conquest is so so uninspiring and boring compared to just roaming in WvWvW.

So, yes. Please, more ranked game modes than just Conquest.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Morwath.9817

[Loboling.5293]

2 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Personaly I don't remember when I qued last time for ranked. Probably some 2v2 last year. Conquest is so so uninspiring and boring compared to just roaming in WvWvW.

So, yes. Please, more ranked game modes than just Conquest.

I think conquest is very fun during high stakes metas. When a game can quickly turn on a dime over and over then it gets really fun, because what makes conquest fun are the rotations. Any meta that focuses on bunkers or mobile duelist has been a bit of a wash. If rotations don't matter, the whole game mode falls apart. And while of course rotations always matter, the mobility of classes and the sheer tankiness of some builds have sort of ruined the mode. (At least made it far less enjoyable)

 

I have no comment on EOD meta, as I actually haven't even played a match yet. But that's more of a personal issue, as I've been stuck traveling for work so much, I haven't even finished the story yet. 

[Ragebru.1397]

22 hours ago, Loboling.5293 said:

I have no comment on EOD meta, as I actually haven't even played a match yet. But that's more of a personal issue, as I've been stuck traveling for work so much, I haven't even finished the story yet. 

While I will say I'm enjoying the new especs (even though harbinger is WAY overtuned) I still find this to pretty much be the exact same feeling as HoT release and PoF release, nice for a short time- but ultimately the same as every other release.

 

ANET should post statistics for how often maps are chosen, because at least for me- the same 3 maps get voted for almost every game I play (already nearing 200 ranked matches this season alone). Djinn, Coliseum, Skyhammer... rinse, repeat. When one of those three aren't available, it seems like 1 or 2 people vote out of the 10. You'd think they'd get the hint at this point.