Just a condi Virtuoso theorycraft...

[Veprovina.4876]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiCBgyhrW+WtxfA-zRIYV0zXGVUBdkCifJC0e4B-e

 

Since rampager gives me 70% precision by default without runes/sigils, i thought i'd then use some other boosts in that area. 

Cause usually you get an accuracy sigil and stuff, to boost your precision so it's capped with fury.

But rampager does that by default.

 

The only question is, am i gimping myself too much by not having expertise, or is the added condi/power enough to offset it?

Mad king rune to boost expertise and bleed.

Or maybe elementalist rune idk...

 

Cause you know, Viper's is boring, wanna try something different. 

And since i'm now in full berserker's/assassin's, maybe i try a condi build for Virtuoso.

 

The power sigil can possibly be replaced with maybe bleed duration one...

I can possibly take signets, but that's extra boring so maybe not... 

(and i hate that they make a huge difference so that not taking them, you lose tons of DPS)

 

EDIT: Here's with signets and food, 70% bleed duration, not bad. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiCBgyhrlVwWZIsEmLW+WtxfA-zRIYV0zXGVUBdkCifJC0e41AifLA-e

 

What do you think?

Edited April 1, 2022 by Veprovina.4876

[Ombras.2853]

What is the build designed for?

[Veprovina.4876]

5 minutes ago, Ombras.2853 said:

What is the build designed for?

Openworld and chill strikes.

[Kondor.2904]

Why not just use an already optimized and tested snowcrows setup ?

t's hybrid as well, caps on bleed duration and considers crit capping in organised 10 man, so you will have no issues transitioning between open world and any instanced content without performance dips. 

[Veprovina.4876]

33 minutes ago, Kondor.2904 said:

Why not just use an already optimized and tested snowcrows setup ?

Cause not every build in the game needs to be a snowcrows approved build. 

I'm not doing raids with it, who cares if i don't reach max golem dps potential.

Besides, even if i did copy the snowcrows build, i wouldn't be able to reach half that dps in a realistic situation.

33 minutes ago, Kondor.2904 said:

t's hybrid as well, caps on bleed duration and considers crit capping in organised 10 man, so you will have no issues transitioning between open world and any instanced content without performance dips. 

Yeah, i went to cap crit, and with runes, signets and food, bleed comes out to about 72%. Probably around 70% without infusions. It's not 100% but it's not bad either i guess. And since bleed is really the only condition i need to worry about, mad king runes fill that role pretty great. 

With sigil of Agony bleed duration comes out as 92%, but i'm not sure how much better that is as opposed to running a flat 5% strike damage sigil instead...

[Kondor.2904]

22 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Cause not every build in the game needs to be a snowcrows approved build. 

I'm not doing raids with it, who cares if i don't reach max golem dps potential.

Besides, even if i did copy the snowcrows build, i wouldn't be able to reach half that dps in a realistic situation.

Snowcrows builds are not just for the raids or bench flexing, they are optimized and, what's more important, tested through versions that you can later adapt using the same basic principles to any other game mode or a particular group composition (or lack of thereof), some of those adaptations are also included there.

And you are not expected to reach golem lvl dps in a non organised environment, but the same basic principles of maximizing your dmg output and efficiency still apply everywhere, you just sometimes adjust for the lack of certain boons. For some reason people think that snowcrows builds are only able to function in a very specific fight on a very specific boss with a very specific group composition, they are not. 
 

But I specifically mentioned snowcrows variation because it's very similar to yours but uses a more optimized gear setup (like krait rune instead of mad king), which suits both open world and instanced content (aka strikes). Also, even tho you mentioned "a non golem" and realistic environment, ironically you chose to pick Master of Fragmentation trait, that kinda serves no purpose, since your particular setup is already crit capped, instead of Phantasmal force that will help with might supply outside the group.
 
All in all, I'd still suggest checking the snowcrows build, or you can use their gear optimizer to come up with a still optimized setup for your specific needs, and not guessing whether this or that sigil/rune/stat piece is better than the other. 

[Ombras.2853]

 To be honest, what they said above.

More in the detail: if the main focus are Strikes or if by open world you mean things like farmtrains, there’s honestly no reason to not use SC’s build. If you want to try something different kudos to you (I mean it), I like experimenting as well, but not focusing on a build which is… well, a worst version of a proven one?

If the build is for open world general mobility, on the other hand, I think we have much more space to experiment. For stuff like going to solo champs and bounties, I believe Staff is still too good to pass on (yes, even on Virtuoso, which is arguably the worst Mesmer Staff-wielder). So much sustain and mobility, and you want to focus on a condi build as well, so I’d start from that without any second chance.

[Veprovina.4876]

Well if they're that simmilar, i guess i'll just copy the snowcrows one.

Or just stick to what i have now. I don't really wanna go full condi, that's why i put mad king runes in. 

I was happy with the hybrid thing. 

Oh well...

[De Bourgogne.9642]

25 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Well if they're that simmilar, i guess i'll just copy the snowcrows one.

Or just stick to what i have now. I don't really wanna go full condi, that's why i put mad king runes in. 

I was happy with the hybrid thing. 

Oh well...

Snowcrows one is hybrid lol. 

[The Rum.4901]

While i can understand the sentiment of having a build you can call your own, the reason snowcrows builds are recommended is because those guys are making sure that gear and traits are not the reason the build feels weak.

 

Its not about whats realistic but rather whats the potential of the tested build.  Making sure that only variable when you fight something is how you perform. 
 

Plus its not like you have to completely follow what they recommend. Adjust according to what feels good to you. 

[Mungo Zen.9364]

9 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

What do you think?

After playing around with the Condi Virtuoso builds for a few weeks I settled into a build that is focused on Solo OW play but can slide into group play with a small change.

I felt that getting to 70% Crit before Fury was important to the build to ensure getting the most Bleed stacks.  However, as I noted in another thread on this forum, most builds on sites like Snowcrows assume you are using Writ of Masterful Accuracy, Spotter and Banner of Discipline.  That is 400 Precision, or about 19% Crit, that I assumed I would not have being Solo.  While I may group with a Warrior or Ranger, there was no way I was spending 2g for Writs on Open World casual play.

I feel this is where branching out from Snowcrows or Metabattle builds is a good thing.  Just copying those builds means losing 19% Crit, or about 20% of your Bleed procs.  Since in Open World, you may not always have Fury up already, this could render the build unable to stock Blades from Bleeds effectively, leaving you stranded.

Open World Chaos Virtuoso

Side note, if I was 'serious' about group content like strikes and raids, I would run the default Snowcrows based builds, but then I'd also probably be in a static where everything in the parties was controlled.  This build can slide into group play, but the focus is Open World and Solo.

Note on the Weapons Stats and Sigils:

I chose Celestial weapon stats here as it adds a little bit of smoothing in Open World play.  You can absolutely swap in Vipers if you want to optimize DPS and you will still reach the same Crit%.

If you are joining a group where you will have Spotter and Banner, you can swap out the Sigil of Accuracy for Sigil of Bursting. 

I have a second weapon set that is Vipers with Sigil of Bursting for this specific reason.  I should hopefully not need the smoothness of Celestial nor the additional precision of Sigil of Accuracy in a properly laid out subgroup. 

Food:

Fried Golden Dumpling is by far the cheapest food I could find (I am cheap and hate wasting Gold for casual gameplay).  If I am joining a group, I will use something more appropriate of course.  However, in Open World, the Might on Crit from this food gives you about 8-10 stacks of Might all the time.  300 Power and Condi is a fine buff for next to no investment.  The added Concentration is another way to smooth Sustain and DPS via Boon Duration.

Jade Bot:

Get a level 10 Power Core for your Jade Bot, 2350 Health is a 15% increase on base Health Pool for Virtuoso.  With the Celestial weapons, I have 19.4k health which is enough to take a big hit or two and not get killed.

Traits:

I chose Chaos over Dueling at the beginning as it provides ways to improve Bleed via Expertise and Condi and give us access to some additional boons via Bountiful Disillusionment (more on that below) and I don't run Swords.   Chaos also provides Illusionary Defense and Metaphysical Rejuvenation for Sustain purposes.

With the Illusions Traits, the only real choice is Phantasmal Force vs Master of Fragmentation.  While the Cripple on F2 and 5 Target on F3 can be very strong when soloing large groups of mobs, most things die before that utility is really needed, so I tend to choose PF over MoF for the Might generation.

Rotations or Priority:

I assume that most of the time you will be initiating combat and will have 5 Blades already stocked.

In Solo play, as we are self buffing, Fury is the boon we want the most with Regen being the second.  We can provide both of these Boons with Fury via F2 and F3, and Regen via F4 or taking damage (Twin Blade Restoration procs Regen, but it's randomly 1/3 of the time so, not a reliable way to get it).

I typically Open with F3 on anything with a Break Bar, or F2 if they don't.  This gives us Fury to start our rotation.  During combat I will use F2 on CD, but that doesn't give us enough Fury for longer fights, so I will weave in F3 along the way.  If you are fighting mobs with Break Bars, you can try and stack to 5 blades before using F3, but firing off a 1 Blade F3 still gives you all the benefits at the cost of reduced Daze on target.

Proccing Regen gives us more Condi, Expertise and Concentration, but it is harder to self apply.  The upside is, if you are being pressured, taking a little damage and proccing Metaphysical Rejuvenation then F4 gives you over 20 seconds of Regen.  If you are feeling next level, you can weave in F4 with 1+ Blade simply for the Regen.

As well, F3 and F4 will be up a lot of the time when F1 and F2 are on CD.  You can naturally weave these in and get Fury and Regen procs simply by dumping Blades.

With the Weapon skills, I tend to focus on using Phantasms after a Weapon Swap and then other Weapon skills.  Focus 4 is only there for the utility, but Pistol 5 can be used on CD.  Both can be saved for Break Bar or controlling groups of mobs if the situation requires it.

With Healing skills, both Signet of Ether and Twin Blade Restoration can be very strong, and I change them out with no real difference felt.

Rain of Swords can be swapped out for Sword of Decimation (with Focus 4 this can make for some fun gameplay) or Signet of Illusions (or whatever your preferred Utility skill might be). 

If I was going to join a group I would take Signet of Ether and Signet of Illusions as these are part of the optimized DPS rotation, using the procs to reset Phantasms and Bladesongs.

 

Summary:

Okay that was a lot of info, and I provided some extra details to for context and even open discussions about these choices. 

This build vs a Golem (Average size, Weak/1 Million health) sits comfortably at 14k DPS self buffed.  Using typical Snowcrows recommended buffs for Golem DPS tests it hits 30k DPS.  With the suggested changes from Solo to Group play (Change weapons to Vipers, Sigil of Accuracy to Bursting, Ascended Food, using 4 Signets, and a streamlined rotation) you can push that number even higher.  Bear in mind, my Golem tests are probably above average but not optimal for this build.

I find this a good balanced build capable of Soloing some Champ Bounties and most HP.  Vets and Elites, even regular Champs die with little issues.  Even groups of 5, 10 or more mobs that may include Vets or Elites are not an issue.

Hope that helps provide some insight into how you build your Virtuoso for Open World @Veprovina.4876!!

 

PS - For more theory crafting thoughts, I found the linked video below to offer a lot of insight into build choices that became the basis for the build I run.

https://youtu.be/Bv2M1FsWO3E

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Ombras.2853]

The problem I have with choosing Chaos is always the same: in solo, you don’t have regen. And if you don’t have regen, Chaos is meh. For the rest, good points, I already watched your video when you loaded it, and it was full of informations.

I’ll add: when trying to change something from a certain build, a POWERFUL tool is Discretize’s optimizer. Make sure to check everything on there for the numbers.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

1 hour ago, Ombras.2853 said:

I already watched your video

To clarify, not my video, but one of the best I found in showcasing the various ways of building Virtuoso.

I hadn't tried the Discretize Tool until just now, I like it and will play around with it a bit more to understand it better.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Mell.4873]

13 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiCBgyhrW+WtxfA-zRIYV0zXGVUBdkCifJC0e4B-e

 

Since rampager gives me 70% precision by default without runes/sigils, i thought i'd then use some other boosts in that area. 

Cause usually you get an accuracy sigil and stuff, to boost your precision so it's capped with fury.

But rampager does that by default.

 

The only question is, am i gimping myself too much by not having expertise, or is the added condi/power enough to offset it?

Mad king rune to boost expertise and bleed.

Or maybe elementalist rune idk...

 

Cause you know, Viper's is boring, wanna try something different. 

And since i'm now in full berserker's/assassin's, maybe i try a condi build for Virtuoso.

 

The power sigil can possibly be replaced with maybe bleed duration one...

I can possibly take signets, but that's extra boring so maybe not... 

(and i hate that they make a huge difference so that not taking them, you lose tons of DPS)

 

EDIT: Here's with signets and food, 70% bleed duration, not bad. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiCBgyhrlVwWZIsEmLW+WtxfA-zRIYV0zXGVUBdkCifJC0e41AifLA-e

 

What do you think?

Looks good, I run like 40% sinister 40% vipers and 20% rampages.

75% critical chance which mean the F1 Bladesong is 100% critical at 180% critical damage.

Temporal Curtain or just aiming the F1 Bladesong really well results in amazing damage.